new review of the VPI Classic that just came out on The Audio Beat (new audio website from Marck Mickelson, former editor at Soundstage.com, and Paul Bolin, formerly of Stereophile). Review emphasizes the Classic's rythmic and timing stability and dynamic presentation. Interesting review. Here it is: http://www.theaudiobeat.com/equipment/vpi_classic.htm |
Good question. I do think it's unfair to compare the Classic to the raven AC, but the way I think about it, is if the Classic tt + modified JMW 10.5 arm's primary strength is PRaT, then one should look for cart and phono stage that lends more emphasis to midrange tonality and textural timbres (maybe Koetsu, Benz, etc...). This is where system matching becomes the key to 'voicing' the entire tt system. |
I have my Classic now for a few months and it has been kind of frustrating for me a bit. I upgraded from an old Blue Note Piccolo to Classics with ring clamp and when taken each aspect of the sound, VPI seems to be better in just about every category, quieter, deeper, better clarity in the bass, smoother mid/high, more extended top, more detail, bigger soundstage but for some reasons, the Piccolo seemed to be more musical and more fun, although less refined sound. VPI seemed to be more detached and is very component/cartridge sensitive. I have been using ASR Mini Basis with Ortofon T100 SUT, Ortofon Jubilee initially. My Piccolo sat on Symposium Acoustic Ultra platform which VPI did not seem to like much at all. Switched to Ginko Cloud 11 improved things significantly. With Koetsu Rosewood Signature, midrange was magical, piano and vocal music was all I could asked for but bass was too sluggish for me, especially for pop or large symphonic pieces. With Ortofon Jubilee, mid range is a bit too lean and detached but with excellent speed and clarity, pacing and rhythm. I burrowed an old Crown Jewel (?Shelter 501) to try and midrange was not quite as full or lush as Koetsu but also very smooth but bass was a bit slower than Jubilee. At the beginning of next month, I should get a Dynavector XV-1s which I heard at a local VPI dealer and seemed to be a good match for Classic. So far, I think the Classic has the potential to be very very good but it is very revealing and very picky about its associated equipment. |
Given that the Raven under discussion used a Phantom arm and the copper platter (don't remember if there was a mat involved), how do you think the comparison would fare if the Classic was modified? It's been a long time since I listened to an all aluminum platter (the original HW-19 platter), but I seem to remember that that platter was a little threadbare compared to the acrylic/lead replacement. I wonder how a graphite mat (say a Boston Mat1 or Mat2) or even a TTweights copper mat would change the Classic's sound. Also, since the Classic arm really isn't a 10.5i (or whaterver the latest version is called), how would the latest arm wand change the sound? Or for that matter, a different arm, like a Phantom? How about a speed controller? At least then you'd have an apples to apples comparison. |
And another review from Hifi+: http://www.avguide.com/review/hifi-plus-68-the-vpi-classic-turntable |
Update on my VPI Classic, today, I removed damping fluid from the arm (it was placed there initially when my TT was set up by my local dealer). It was interesting. Without any damping fluid, the bass was not nearly as deep or powerful, ,not as black background but at the same time, mid and high seemed more alive, more air and not so subdue. The missing fun and musical factor that I was complaining about in comparison from my old Blue Note Piccolo was much less obvious. I imagine that if I could find a right amount of fluid where bass is better controlled and less noisy but at the same time, keeping the mid/high not so well damped!, this would be really great. I suppose it just goes to show that the Classic is incredibly sensitive to just about everything. |
Suteetat...You must experiment to get the correct damping in your arm. Listen very carefully with no damping, and when you're sure you know the sound, use 1 drop at a time in the bearing cup and listen again after each addition. You will hear the sound improve and then....one more drop, and the sound will become less good. Use a Q-tip to remove that last drop of oil, and you've got it. My advise is to recheck your arm...I have never had a "professional" do it absolutely right. Set up takes lots of patience, and care. |
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I am using Gingko Cloud 11L-B (for Scout/Scoutmaster 15x20.5) with excellent result. It comes with 5 balls which is optimal for 50 lbs mass which is perferct for the Classic (45 lbs) plus ring clamp. Bass response is deeper, tighter and midrange/high seemed smoother and much quieter. My TT initially sat on acrylic platform on top of 3 inverted spike on steel bar supports with legs filled with leadshots and spikes into carpet. Not exactly the best equipment rack but not so bad either. My only complain of Gingko is that when the motor first started to run, there is a bit of sideway motion as the Gingko's topshelf can have quite a bit of lateral movement. It takes a few seconds for everything to settle down. I have Symposium Acoustic Ultra platform as well that does not seem to do anything much for the Classic. I actually prefer the sound of the Classic directly on my rack rather than with the Symposium. I think it is mainly because Symphosium platform does not work well with rubber feet as they recommend solid coupling for it to work. I did not try the Classic with Symposium aluminium coupler feet however. But Symposium worked very well with my old turntable which has solid feet and is now put to good use under my amp. After playing with damper fluid for a few days, I also compare using only twisted phono wire vs using anti skating mechanism. In my system, using anti skating mechanism with only 2 rubber band on arm to keep the string in place and no rubber band on the other arm seemed to produce the best sonic. I am now mcuh happier with the result and now I can't wait for the Dyna XV-1s cartridge that I should get next week. |
I just got the Dyna XV-1s for my Classic and I am very impressed. The Dyna is a demo unit so it is well broken in although it has not been played much for a couple of months as my local dealer was breaking in their new MY Sonic Hyper Eminent this past several weeks. I really think that The Classic is very very neutral and it really lets you hear the strenght and weakness of your cartridge and associated equipments. In comparison to Ortofon Jubilee, the Dyna does not have the speed and punch of the Ortofon but music appears to flow with ease and naturalness that just seems right. The midrange is rich, dense but not overly lush or romantic. Violin and Cello sounds full body and not so thin or lean like Jubilee. Basically I think this is a turntable that can benefit from a top notch cartridge, even one that is significantly more expensive that TT itself if the remaining associated equipment is revealing enough. Right now I am using ASR Mini Basis with Ortofon SPU-T100 SUT and have the new ASR Basis Exclusive 2010 on the way. I don't think I would need to upgrade my turntable anytime soon. |
My dealer finally has the Classics on stock. I noticed that when he tried his brand new unit, turn on the motor, it had a difficult time turning the heavy and massive platter. Sometimes he has to give it a spin, otherwise the platter wouldn't move or rotate. Does this get better over break in ? or is it always best to give the platter a shove to help the motor moving ? Also, how long is break in time ? can we just leave the motor running 24/7 without the cart hitting the groove just so the motor would get smoother over time ? Aside from this issue, the Classic is a beauty!!! Built like a tank and heavy heavy beast. Very solid product for $2500.00 Bang for buck! good job on this VPI!!!! |
That's a bit unusual, I think, to have to give a little spin to start the platter's rotation. On my Classic, initially there was quite a loud sqeaky noise for a couple of seconds when the motor is first turned on. After using for a couple of months, the squeaky noise is pretty much gone. I never had to jump start the platter! The first couple of days, I left the motor running when I first got it. I have no idea how long it would take the break in the turntable as it took me several months before I finally found a cartridge that finally let my analogue setup really sings and show me what all the fuzz about vinyl really are! :) |
The delay is sometimes more than a few seconds. Sometimes it wouldnt even start at all! The dealer told me that the TT pulley is for 50hz which is incorrect & it needs a 60hz pulley. The electricity is 60hz. Therefore, would this account for this circumstance ? The dealer is a bit frustrated -glad its not my TT. |
Thanks Guys! I helped out the dealer. I took out the belt and turned on the motor. Guess what, sometimes it spins, sometimes it doesn't spin. However, if i turn the pulley, then the thing spins. Same when the belt is attached to the platter, it needs to be kicked start by spinning the platter lightly & off it goes. I think my dealer will contact vpi shortly. What you guys think ? motor issues ? Since this is the first unit Classic it arrived, were does one put the oil for fluid damping ? is it the one on top of the tonearm where there is a hole or is it the one were you remove the tonearm and near that sharp thingy ? Thanks guys.... |
Nolitan: I have an Aries 2, but perhaps I can help. Does the pulley on the motor (where you attach the belt) have a set screw? Have you attempted to tighten it with one of the Allen wrenches that came with the table? As far as damping fluid, it goes in the well at the base of the tonearm; to borrow your term, where the sharp thingy (pivot point) is. Fill it like 3/4 full. |
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Quick question, my platter gets a bit dirty with whitish stain after a few months use. I have no idea where that came from, may be oxidized aluminium rust or stain from vinyl? Anyhow, simple rubbing with microfiber cloth did nothing so I am wondering if anybody else is cleaning his/her platter and what do you use to clean it? |
Hi Stew, Thank you for suggestion but that has been done- the little allen nuts are quite tight. As I mentioned in my last post, i took out the belt and when i switched on the motor even without the belt the motor will sometimes spin but in most times it will just vibrate, it wont spin. A little help spins it. I think there is definitely something wrong w/ the motor. |
Suteetat and my experience with a VPI Classic on a Gingko Cloud 11L-B are similar. I was not satisfied with the unsupported Classic. The Gingko significantly elevated the performance of my Classic. I tried some existing maple and acrylic supports. The acrylic was better than maple, but not as good as the Gingko. I have two other turntables on Gingkos and had similar positive results. My VPI dealer has his demo Classic on a Gingko Cloud 11M-B. |
