@dover LOL, your post about folks who believe they have the SOTA with their 70's audio product ( think direct drive TT here) definitely made me laugh.
However, you do realize that the new SAT XD1 is priced at $282K...yes?
(with an SAT arm at that price..:0) )
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@cleeds Do explain how my experience, your experience, or anyone’s experience with the table has anything to do with the asking price of this product? Or, are you missing these points on purpose??
Oh, I forgot, you are able to purchase this table with your pocket change, isn't that right...and think it is a value proposition. |
@antinn Thanks for that. I think the Basis Transcendence is awfully hard to beat, and it is a fraction of the price of the new SAT...even with the Superarm 9 or 12 mounted! |
@rauliruegas Raul, I agree with almost everything that you state in your post. However, you assume that Marc Gomez has a marketing director, do we know this? Also, even if he does, surely as the owner of the company he would have final say over something as important as the pricing structure of his product. ( at least I would hope so!).
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Here’s an opinion that seems to be unpopular right now in high end audio. Why on earth not make more of the product at a far lower price and sell many more to the ’general’ public, than make something that is priced so very high that it will only be bought be a tiny minority? The new SAT turntable is a good example of this marketing strategy, along with the rest of the SAT line. Marc Gomez seems to believe that the way to his success with these products is to price them so high that they are in the ether! While this makes sense ’if’ you are trying to sell to a tiny minority of consumers, and want to minimize your production capacity and number of sales, is it realy the way to go for the benefit of your long term business...and more importantly, for the benefit of the industry/hobby as a whole??? All IMHO.YMMV etc., |
Cleeds, striving for high performance always costs money, but there is money and then there is money...so how much is too much??
I'm with lewm on this, to me...there is a principal involved here. Simple as that. |
@noromance Pricing to the stratosphere is connected to pursuing the state of the art...how??
Residing at the upper echelons of the industry?? Only to those who believe price equates to ability...IMO.
No need to deal with too many annoying humans?--well if you aren’t in business at all...you don’t have to deal with anyone, LOL.Hmm...
Fremer mentioned that the table equates in price to a brand new Lamborghini Huracan! Look at the Lamborghini and look at the SAT table, not a good thing to do, IMO. ( one of my good a’phile fiends described it like this...in simple words..."comical"). I 100% agree with him....plus, I would go as far as to state additionally that it is an insult to one’s intelligence. IMHO. |
@headphonedreams IMO, the question is not whether someone should be pushing the boundaries of what can be done, but whether the result should be connected to some kind of value proposition. Or, whether it is simply acceptable to place the result in front of the consumer with what would, on the face of it, appear to be a simple money grab. That is entirely my point when it comes to the principle aspect. |
@cleeds Do point out where I am talking about the tonearm..
vs. the table in respect to the Formula 1 car example brought up by dover.
@lewm One maybe has to ask where the pricing structure that seems ever more prevalent in this hobby becomes...’comical’. Sure, to some that number is not ever reached...or is it??
One could ask Marc Gomez why he didn’t price his table at multiple millions of dollars--- after all, why not?? Do you see my point?
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@dover Agreed. Problem is that the 'comical' price that is attached to this table, at least IMHO, doesn't do our hobby any good either! |
@dover Here's the issue, that continually seems to be either a) misconceived or b) considered irrelevant.. and it's this: The price asked fails to live up to the tech, the complexity, the R&D required or any other parameter that typically accrues to a product like this..at that price. ( unless you are talking of a diamond crusted piece of jewelry!) When you mention Formula 1 cars or other products pushing the envelope, do you realize the amount of R&D cost, complexity, design ethos, etc that goes into those? Comparing the SAT to a Formula 1 car is a faulty comparison in so many ways, IMO. OTOH, if you are ok with a pricing structure that follows the guideline that any new and innovative product that is brought out in our hobby and can perform at a high level could, and should, be priced at a level that is only conceivable to multi-millionaires with money to flush...then I see your point. |
Cleeds ,once again audio guru, what does experience have to do with the asking price of this table??
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lewm, you miss my point, and maybe it hasn’t been made clear enough in my prior posts. I really couldn’t give a darn if Marc Gomez wants to price his stuff in the ether, the only one who is going to suffer from that is himself. My point is that the continued unabated upwards pricing structure by so many high end manufacturer’s really is NOT good for the overall health of this hobby ( as my friend stated, it is now basically ’comical’),as evidenced by the many younger folk who look at these pricing points and decide to take a pass on the whole hobby. I personally have absolutely zero interest in the SAT turntable, as IMO there are plenty of other competing designs that I think would be a) more appropriately priced, b) give close to or similar performance and c) are far superior looking.
BTW, IF you saw a Ferrari 250GTO in 1972 for $12.5K--and didn’t get to buy it, i dont think this is quite analogous to being able (or not) to buy the SAT table for $282K today...unless the little SAT is going to be worth millions in the future! Maybe,LOL. |
It is unfortunate that IME having spoken to a number of college age folks that the overall impression that they have of our hobby is that it is one for the ultra well to do.( they seem to believe this from their exposure to the high priced gear that exists in the hobby, and remember that to most...a thousand dollars is beyond their reach...so when we are talking of gear that costs as much as most people’s houses, well!!) While what lewm says is true, there is a revived interest in vinyl, it has ( from what I can tell) nothing to do with the audiophile hobby, and more to do with the physical media itself. |
@dover The question is also whether the pricing is also out of whack with the market in general? I guess only time will tell.
BUT I still think this has absolutely nothing to do with the value of rare Ferrari's today..and what they could possibly be acquired for forty years ago in relation to the SAT table and its current (comical to me) asking price. |
@rauliruegas LOL, now that you clarify your post to include MF as his marketing director ( and you could add as his ad writer as well), I agree with you 100%.
It boggles my mind that ANYONE would buy a product as expensive as the SAT arm ( or worse the table) based solely on a review, ( by MF or anyone else); BUT i guess this does happen! Personally, and IMHO, IF anyone buys something in that manner, they have only got themselves to blame if something doesn't meet their expectations....As the old saying goes: 'a fool and his money......'. |
