Has anyone heard the new North American products preamp and amp?
The new versions are called X-10s and the amp is on its third version or Mark III. This truly provides holograph imagine unlike anything I've heard before. On symphonic orchestras, one can hear the first violins. I have never heard an amp sound this precise.
In reality, I doubt if any amplifier can rival it. I certainly have never heard any that do so. Every album is so involving.
The preamp has yet to get a remote but is nevertheless, quite striking.
I finally demoed H-CAT amps and preamp at a dealer's home last Sunday. The room in the attic so not the best, speaker was dc10 and BMC digital so all SS system.
I'm not familiar with the components but brought my own CDs.
It has a very deep sound stage especially for SS. No usual SS nasty, resolving, extended, transparent, not SS or tube sound but just very musical. It was a good experience and glad I made the 2 hours drive.
I Got to compare the Mark III to the Mark VI Amp at Norms yesterday and it was great! After one hour of playing it surpassed the MkIII in detail and image. Also improvements in sibilance and more natural highs. I believe the upgrade consists of improvements to power supplies and adding another separate ps. I want one!!! D
Cashcamp, I quit using CD's finally about a year ago and only deal with them to record to my hard drive. I am using highly designed and customized, discrete component, 4x DSD system from Archiving Vinyl in Canada. It has a HDD, server and a "DSD DAC/preamp" which connects to my MK III AMP.
My system has been gifted with a number of major refinements of late. Key to this is my MK III Amp! "servant" said on page one that he has the amp and pre but has never heard them..? Now this makes sense as there is no detectable coloration, not even an audio system now, Just Music!! Folks are beyond helpful words to describe, using terms like, frackin’ ridiculous, sic, stupid good, impossible, beyond belief etc. How does that help? ;-) I listened to Joni Mitchell’s “Blue" (1971) and Dylan’s "Blood on the Tracks” (197?) last night and felt the emotion. Got misty. Although only copies of my old CD’s, I was having trouble at times distinguishing from real. I’ve finally got to the point of sound where it tricks the mind into perceiving reality. The holy grail of music!! so.... pretty good then. ;-) FYI- my CD's are converted to 4X DSD.
Mark III has a very long break in time, maybe 700 hours, but will sound intriguing right away and darn good in a week or less, and get much more refined from there.
cashcamp, Congrats Brian. I cannot imagine you not being absolutely thrilled with the Mk III AMP. I believe one could pay 10 times this amount and not get what this amp can do. It takes more time than I liked to get my MK III but I am so happy I got it. Roger is a one man company so I would not be surprised at 8-10 weeks delivery time. Fabulous amp! I recommend Synergistic Research SR Black fuses for the amp, as well as Star Sound Technologies, Rhythm platform and High Fidelity Cables.
Sounds like I am making a right choice. Ordered one H Cat Amp MK lll from Roger about a month ago. Still waiting for him to deliver my amp. Heard from him I will get the latest upgrade which is supposed to improve the sound even more. Will report back.
Major jump in performance yesterday. Two days ago my system was sounding the best it ever sounded. Folks who hear it said it was hawkin ridiculous! Yesterday I did some adjustments and got a sound worlds better than the day before! Have you ever had an improvement that made you want to listen to EVERYTHING you ever heard over again? This is that, in spades! I heard new stuff yesterday on albums I've listened to for 32 years. Soundstage like nothing I've ever heard anywhere or could ever imagine possible. I must agree with TBG and others, -- the Mk III has no equal!! Totally Thrilled!! Thanks Roger! Cheers D
Knghifi, In my experience the really good stuff is often hard to get. I think persistence is a better tac than "oh well!" Call 'em back! It took months to get my amp and waiting is hard for me. I could not be more thrilled with my H-cat Mk III amp now that it is here and broken in. Cheers D
Roger gave me local dealer (~100 miles away) contact to demo
H-Cat amp and pre. Contacted dealer several months ago and he said in process of renovating sound room, should take 2 weeks but never got back to me. Oh Well!
Philip, I was re reading xaviercg's post from page one before the troll attack. Now that I have the amp with a few hundred hours on it I can say that I agree with his assessment. I look forward to your report after 200 hours...(if).. Cheers D
philipwu, I'm glad you tried the MkIII amp. I would strongly recommend that you also get the preamp, although presently it is being done on old chassis. I got the X-10 preamp first and compared it with my old X-9 version. The X-10 is clearly better. I had it when I got the X-10 MkIII amp. I did have my old X-9 amp with which to compare the X-10 MkIII. That was an eye opening experience.
I don't post much here any longer given the antics of Mapman and Geoffkait. I have long been a proponent of Roger Paul's electronic since about the time that Anna Logg gave the preamp a "Golden Ear Award" in The Absolute Sound where in the next Recommended Products, the H-cat wasn't mentioned. I think this bespeaks the influence of advertisers.
I have repeatedly been surprised that Roger's stuff has not taken off, but I was very happy that I had both a preamp and amp around to merely have upgraded. I know at least three guys in China with the preamp and maybe the amps and have been seeking them to tell them of the new products.
Hi Philip, I can say that I have never heard any amp as good as the MK III. (nearly 40 years in audio). So far it seems as if the timber balance realism and timing or spot on. Although Not fully broken in yet, the clarity, musicality, and amazing soundstage has me mesmerized in front of my system 12 hours a day lately. The amp is reported to have a 3 week break in at least but it is already performing in ways I could not have imagined possible. Most 3 diminutional sound envelope ever. Dare I say, AN ABSOLUTE STEAL at this price, and risk a run on these amps? Last time I checked, there was a wait time for the amp. I felt like there was no risk in buying one because I know people waiting to get one. Now that I hear it I know why no one has sold theirs. I hear that Roger is working 7 days a week to get these out while continuing to work on recording studio components with Mk III technology. I think you are correct about this amp and PRAT. SO far it excels there. Cheers D
hi ddraudt , are you suggesting this H-Cat amp excel in all areas of music? did you find any lacking which you may had heard compared with other amps? i'm seriously considering it because Roger seems to know the correlation between amplitude & time, phase in signal propagation. These are fundamentals of P.R.A.T in music which i'm more concern than timbre, distortions ect.. Thanks for any input!
Hi philipwu, I have had HFC for a while. The cables I had with the last amp were. 2 Pro power cords, 2 URH power cords, one Pro ic, one set UR speaker cables. I have 9 Star Sound platforms and tons of their brass. I have one Schumann Generator but have ordered a second. My speakers are custom built and my equipment is severely modified so the names would not help. I have much room tuning, a 2x DSD source being upgraded to 4x DSD. I am fortunate to have heard the changes in Norms system over the past few years also to help me analyze. The Sound of the new amp is mesmerizing!! More realistic than I could imagine, Soundstage wider and deeper than ever. Mk III redefines quiet, re invents image solidity, overflows with musicality, involvement, micro detail and pure enjoyment. It's very hard to stop listening!! Cheers D
dear ddraudt, may i ask what pre & power amp were you using before you have heard the H-Cat mark III amp and preamp together with HFC products? did you have the HFC cables connected to your earlier audio system too? hope you can relate some of your experience with us. Any info is appreciated, Thanks! -phil
Wow! I finally got to hear the H-Cat mark III amp and preamp and was totally blown away by the projected sound. Yes, it is much realer than any amp I've ever heard. The Soundstage is impossibly rendered. Nothing like it in the world. It benefits greatly from High Fidelity Cable products and Star Sound Rhythm Racks and Brass. Tracks sound so much better they hardly sound like the same music! The speakers disappeared completely!! I'm so happy I have the H-cat on order. Cheers D
Roger, Where is your shop? The address on your page says: North American
Products 700A South White Horse Pike Suite 197 Somerdale, NJ 08083... I took a ride down today looking for it and couldn't find it, I found the UPS store at 700A but didn't see North American Products in that strip mall so I ended up having a few beers at Shadie Katies. Was looking forward to being able to check out your products. Thanks, Dave
Can you tell us where your amps are made and who does the manufacturing?
Also do you keep an inventory and what is the wait period?
Everything is made here in the garden state (NJ). I have a sub assembly house where all but critical assembly takes place. I also have proprietary components made at the factory which are added late in the final assembly process. The circuit board manufacturing process is done within the US under non-disclosure contract and includes a structural process I developed to guarantee signal stability. The core amplifier circuitry is potted and housed in a Faraday cage. The potting material is a unique chemical compound developed especially for H-CAT because of the high signal impedance used in the auto-focus system.
AS I work on reading my system for H-cat Mark III amp and preamp, I got in some of Star Sound's new 2.5 inch points and the inverted discs. They are breaking in now, ( up to 2 weeks break in ) but the already have given me more dimensionality, space, and richness. It takes time for the highs and lows to blossom fully but they are already showing improvements over the 1.5 inch Star Sound points, which are great! I will order more soon. Enjoy the Music D
DANGER!! Please don't feed the Trolls!! ANY type of response is food for them. please stop validating Troll tactics with further contact. If you must act, contact Audiogon and report them. They are happy to remove troublemakers.
"I think we should all ignore geoff’s postings and get back to the original question that was obfuscated by Mapman and company and then inadvertently I congested the thread by adding the Star sound benefit to the X-10 MkIII.
Please add you experiences with the H-Cat or the Star Sound, not your beliefs about it without hearing."
There is a wide range of topics I am perfectly capable of discussing. Would you believe I actually don’t have to hear whatever component or tweak is on the table in order to discuss it. As a theoretical and experimental physicist I’m not only interested in how something sounds but the theory involved. In other words I’m interested in ideas. As Judge Judy says, if you don’t know just say you don’t know. Everyone who's heard the amp raise your hand.
geoff kait machinadynamica.com we do artificial atoms right
I think we should all ignore geoff's postings and get back to the original question that was obfuscated by Mapman and company and then inadvertently I congested the thread by adding the Star sound benefit to the X-10 MkIII.
Please add you experiences with the H-Cat or the Star Sound, not your beliefs about it without hearing.
My impression is you need to relax a little bit more. Lol If you are not Tom then why in Earth were you responding to comments I had directed at him? Especially the one regarding all the isolation devices he claimed he had tried. Were you sticking up for your shill? Who knows? That you could possibly think Tom agrees with me on isolation is just plain bizarre. You’ve probably been cooped up with all that mechanical grounding stuff for thirty years. Stove piping for that long means you’ve been missing all the good stuff that’s been going on. Time to diversify, my good man.
Your speed reading skills need to be sharpened. I sign my name to the bottom of every post presented on AudioGon. You can go to our website and click on Home-About Us if you require a background check on Tom, myself or our staff.
I was forewarned not to participate on anything you have contact with on AudioGon for reasons we are about to expose and please excuse me folks… but lying tends to really piss us off.
You have taken our statements regarding seismology and stretched it well beyond what is actually printed so here we go again, I must defend and prove there are more untruthful statements provided by you on this thread.
1 Background and Analogy: Seismic vibration and 4 hz frequencies… The focus of Star Sound is to work within the frequencies related to the recording and playback sciences, musical instruments, structural environments such as listening suites and recording studios relative to the hearing range of the human ear.
Quite frankly we classify most inaudible frequencies as floor noise or a precious volume of space being cluttered by inaudible noise - again inaudible to the human ear. Locomotives passing by and earthquakes were of minor concern to us initially.
We study many things related to sound. Star Sound developed a concept that is being accepted by our peers as a theoretical science and is backed by a host of experiments resulting in products with proven success through public consumption. We are now working to establish the technology as a new science.
2 Rebuttal: Your words printed as shown; “More to the point, how could you have explored all vibration isolation devices or concepts in an knowledgeable way if you had no experience or knowledge of the subject?” (seismology)
Untruths Exposed: As for the “no experience or knowledge on the subject” statement, we Never Printed or Stated That - you did! Where did that come from? Again Geoff, you have no history on our past and in my opinion did not spend anytime researching the people you are challenging or you would easily come to the conclusion that YES, based on our group of engineers and educational backgrounds along with our Board of Technical Advisors we do have experience with “all” your seismic operandi. So what possesses you to alter our statement?
As to your using the word “All” in your toss back questions: The encompassing word ‘All’ really works in favor for a gent like yourself. It provides for tremendous defense strategies, it delivers an open ended form that easily sets the stage for endless rebuttals and arguments and can also be used as a line of attack in strategic debating. It is so easy to place this smallest of words into print and attack people who never used it in their original statements.
Where did Tom state that we or he tried “All” vibration devices? I am having trouble locating it anywhere here with exception to where you plugged it in. Are we missing something?
3 The reason for my involvement is your persistent nature of seeking out weaknesses of others both technical and personal, then attacking from a position requiring documented proof to everything or anything new or indifferent that does not match up to your philosophy in sound and lifelong beliefs. You are the most closed minded engineer we have encountered (just our opinion).
You find amusement in forcing long drawn out replies from those who you challenge (and there are many) then answer them with short paragraphs either creating greater challenges requiring greater proof and longer replies or you initiate quick one line rebuttals - textbook or otherwise holding people in a state of demand for total and absolute accountability - over and over again.
You alter the statements of others towards your own imaginary liking - as proven above.
Upon review of your website, we see no history of employment after college other than generic descriptions. We see limited testing results provided in amateuristic form. We see multiple products that have explanations of function based on your discoveries with some analogies taken from textbooks. We see absolutely no third party testing or attempts to prove your product functionality and many multiple theorems supported by your understanding.
You have ‘So Much In Common’ with the people and companies you attack yet you demand the highest form of proof from others yet lack the same when it comes to your products. Hurry up defend yourself because it appears that we are unveiling the new Establishment of Hypocrisy?
You have obtained a BS in Aerospace Engineering; congratulations. No wonder you are the man who is trying to prove he is the best of the best of the best!
I personally do not fully understand the Brilliant Pebbles thing other than establishing a secondary grounding plane hence reducing the effects from acoustic corner and wall loading. An ivy type plant (natural or synthetic) in a brass pot placed into a corner also works extremely well, provides musical results and costs about the same. Please prove to the readership why pebbles are better…have you ever made comparisons to a device such as a plant? In fact show us testing information and what the differences are between the various products you have obviously compared to over time and let us know who is also in agreement with your results, plus provide a list of the testing equipment used and don’t forget to include the gear’s previous calibration dates and lastly tell us why pebbles are better than magnets, fiberglass, foam, wool , traps, acoustic panels, brass and steel, etc. or are they just polished with bullcrap like all those other isolation products built by your competitors? There are so many more questions we have for you but we’ll save those pending the answer to these briefs.
You have taken too much time off of my calendar although this is a bit fun and very relaxing, so might as well consider “All” future appearances here another win in your favor - have a nice life, I’m Out.
Robert Maicks (Audiopoint moniker) Star Sound Technologies, LLC
"Reply: We wish! The monies invested for research and development alone would have let two of us retire at sixty. It all started with a brass ball bearing in 1988. You make false statements based on having no knowledge whatsoever of your competition’s history nor provide a basic respect for others participating in this industry. After reviewing many of your statements and in my opinion it appears to be a ‘my way or the highway’ basis for your product offerings and/or participation here."
I was addressing TOM. Is TOM also Audiopoint? If YOU (Audiopoint) are supposedly going to talk to a PhD seismologist ...very impressive ;-) ...in the future then how could YOU have explored seismic vibrations in the past? More to the point, how could you have explored all vibration isolation devices or concepts in an knowledgeable way if you had no experience or knowledge of the subject? Your answer is actually unresponsive to my comment to TOM - I.e., he TOM could not have evaluated ALL vibration isolation devices - which was the claim TOM made. So, I wouldn’t be so quite so quick on the tigger accusing me of lying. Save the drama for your mamma.
Audiopoint wrote,
"In closing: NOT TO TAKE POSSESSION OF THIS THREAD:"
No need to yell. Calm down, you're starting to sound possessed yourself.
Geoff kait machina dynamica we do artificial atoms right
Am I taking to Tom or someone else? I am not sure why you’re getting all wrapped around the axle but it certainly seems odd that you would take exception to my statements that were directed at Tom. Especially my rebuttal of his position or claim or whatever that isolation is impossible. By the way your approach from what I have read so far, I haven’t read your entire post yet, seems to echo Michael Green’s TuneLand approach quite a bit. Especially in terms of eschewing isolation and damping and letting the vibrations run free. Moreover, in terms of attitude. You know, the misunderstood long suffering audio manufacturer who has a chip on his shoulder regarding anyone with a scientific argument. I hate to judge before all the facts are in but it appears you believe your company actually transcends science and technical arguments. OK, so let me take some time out to peruse the rest of your post and I’ll get back here in some reasonable amount of time with some further thoughts. This looks like it could be fun.
Strawman is not intended to be demeaning. A Strawman argument is the term applied to an argument or statement that presents other person’s argument incorrectly, whether intentional or not. It is a technical term used in debate that I use occasionally when I feel someone mischaracterized my comments or puts words in my mouth. Sorry you misinterpreted my meaning. I like to keep things straight in these discussions. Makes life easier, no? I just got back in so let me read what you wrote in it’s entirely and see if and how I wish to respond.
from Wikipedia,
A straw man is a common form of argument and is an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not advanced by that opponent.
It is my opinion that Tom D., is in agreement with your methodology as highly functional. He is in simple disagreement as to the efficiency of the outcome based on his experiences and personal history involving vibration management. Upon further review I noticed you occasionally provide people with names that are presented as humorous or humiliating, for example the “Strawman”? When this takes place I feel the need to reply in kind so say what you will related to products and science but highly recommend refraining from calling us or the public idiotic names.
Your Statement: “It sounds like you’re perhaps from the Michael Green school of letting the vibrations RUN FREE, not attempting to attenuate them, isolate them, damp them or otherwise interfere with the natural flow of vibration in the room and in the audio system.”
Reply: The absolute finest product Star Sound offers is the Energy Room. A mechanically grounded structural listening environment where the energy is left to - and in your words “Run Free”! We reduce the negative effects caused from vibration via mechanical grounding (direct coupling through metal materials that have specific damping factors). Judging from all who have entered this physical space, the results are a newfound ‘live stage’ listening experience. The first is located in Charlotte, NC with the second currently being built is in Verona, WI. Both owners are interested in meeting fellow audiophiles and listeners so it is extremely easy for anyone to arrange an audition simply by calling us. Physical proof, public acceptance - no storyboarding.
Your Statement: “I am quite confident your statement implying that you have tried all vibration isolation devices is most likely just puffery.”
Reply: We wish! The monies invested for research and development alone would have let two of us retire at sixty. It all started with a brass ball bearing in 1988. You make false statements based on having no knowledge whatsoever of your competition’s history nor provide a basic respect for others participating in this industry. After reviewing many of your statements and in my opinion it appears to be a ‘my way or the highway’ basis for your product offerings and/or participation here.
Your Statement: “I use constrained layer damping as a means of reducing vibration in applications such as transformer and capacitors. Direct coupling will NOT accomplish this!”
Reply: Again, my way or the highway…based solely on your individual experience, practical knowledge and education. To further strengthen our understanding behind Live-Vibe Technology™, in 2004 Star Sound successfully marketed and sold thirty chassis of the M-100 amplifier and forty pairs of loudspeakers titled Caravelle under our Harmonic Precision™ trade name brand. Both products can be searched here to determine if the direct coupling techniques of all critical parts applied inside the chassis was a success. Physical proof, public participation and acceptance - no storyboarding.
Your Statement: “All that talk is fine but it strikes me that you actually don’t address very low frequency structureborne vibration or seismic vibration.”
Reply: We have been approached and are looking forward to working with a profound PHD in Seismology who has shared in our products, techniques and technical understanding. The Brass End Pin that attaches to cello, bass and bass clarinet motivated her to contact us where she too has invented products to improve the sound of instruments.
Our products address seismic vibration however as a company made up of engineers our comprehension can only provide educated opinions on this topic based on our ever evolving understanding of vibration and science. Adding highly qualified professionals to our company will provide proven testing methods that will explain in greater detail the seismic relationship and functionality of our innovations. We hope to formally announce her name, credentials and participation in the near future.
In closing: NOT TO TAKE POSSESSION OF THIS THREAD:
I recently spent a couple hours speaking with Mr. Roger Paul discussing his newer approach to amplification circuits and his understanding of sound. Although his technology and description buck the majority of defined gospel, he definitely aroused our curiosity particularly addressing the focus of signal and speed relationships to the human listening experience. We will be traveling to Somerville, NJ within the month
for a listen.
Star Sound has a great deal in common with Roger’s dilemma here on AudioGon. It has taken our products 25 years to get us where we are. We experienced the pains from constant objections both scientific and public postings when introducing the first equipment “Platforms” designed to vibrate in 2001. Addressing AudioGon membership in those days felt like going twelve rounds with Larry Holmes, lots of black eyes… It has taken even longer to place our technology and products into a laboratory that is funded for the research and development of newer sciences related to energy conservation including the studies of vibration. If anything, we hope to be a reminder for the readership whereas one should always look forward to and embrace breakthroughs in sound reproduction regardless of current acceptance and understanding of the known rules.
Thank you for your time, As always - Good Listening!
"Thanks G, next time I need still water I know what to use! So sorry you have missed the whole point. AGAIN!!! Sorrier that knowledgable friends are wasting there time trying to help when you are just trying to be obtuse. or worse, you ARE that obtuse! I hope you will troll on other sights and not understand anything there. Please Take your dumb troll friends with you. To those interested in H-cat, I hope you realize soon... that any further communication with trolls is a waste of time, they feed on responses. Please don’t feed the trolls!!!"
That’s real good, ddough. If you don’t mind too much can I suggest you consider taking a remedial English course. You may carry on with your shilling, now. Have a nice day.
Thanks G, next time I need still water I know what to use! So sorry you have missed the whole point. AGAIN!!! Sorrier that knowledgable friends are wasting there time trying to help when you are just trying to be obtuse. or worse, you ARE that obtuse! I hope you will troll on other sights and not understand anything there. Please Take your dumb troll friends with you. To those interested in H-cat, I hope you realize soon... that any further communication with trolls is a waste of time, they feed on responses. Please don't feed the trolls!!!
What's up with all the Lack of Science comments? Am I missing something? In the first place it's a rather easy experiment to conduct, putting a glass filled with water on the surface of the iso platform and visually observing the absence of ripples on the surface of the water compared to the case of the glass of water without isolation. Of you are really curious which I actually doubt you can always use an accelerometer. Isolation is a lot like the weather. Everyone complains about it but nobody does anything about it. The same folks that complain about lack of science seem to be waiting for someone else to investigate this whole thing.
gdhal, I'm sorry to have misdirected this thread and that the lack of science means that nothing can be proven to be correct on vibrations or even on Roger's amp.
All that matters to me is what I'm hearing. I am hearing reproductions of performances that are thrillingly real. Tomorrow I will get my improved music server back and will enjoy the convenience. But I have been enjoying going back to my three thousand LPs and pulling out old favorites and hearing them as I never did before. Even the old Sheffield Missing Link is enjoyable and realistic.
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