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Hartvig TT signature vs TW Black Knight


Hi Everyone ,

I'm still hunting for my next turntable and above 2 tables are my top 2 choices left. I have heard the Hartvig TT signature with full upgrade options with battery supply for motor and copper platter upgrade last night at my friend's listening room. The Hartvig TT sig was using Phantom Supreme II 12" arm with DV xv1t cartridge , Goldmund Amp , and Tidal Speakers.

I was impressed with the very fine presentation of the HARTVIG and the super quiet and very very black background due to battery supply for the motor.The timing is top notch with a bit of correct warmness and resolution that is jaw dropping. The music is really alive in the listening room with no harsh or trace of fatigue in all frequencies.

I have not heard the black knight and can not decide to Hartvig without hearing or received any thoughts or comments for serious consideration for the difference of these 2 tables.

Your comments are very highly appreciated.
dreamauduio
14 responses Add your response
moonglum
619 posts
 
If you are serious about the Hartvig, Dreamaudio, I would be concerned about the geometric stability of a ~2cm thick cantilevered acrylic armboard?
First thing I would ask is if they do it in aluminium or bronze. There's more than enough damping within that structure anyway? :)

The arm pillar and armboard arrangement otherwise looks very similar to the AC....(apart from what looks like an optional constrained layer version?)
moonglum
619 posts
 
Good choice in the "Supreme" by the way! :)
All the best....
elinor's avatar
elinor
275 posts
 
If you live near NYC take a trip to see Jeff Catalano the US distributor for TW. He has the BK there for you to hear.
crossfire
13 posts
 
As an owner of TW Raven Anniversary (nearly BN table) I would suggest to compare the weight/composition of the platter and the torque from the 3 synchro motors at TW.

Engineering for BN is a top-notch and surpasses the Hartwig by a margin. You should try to listen BN/Anniversary with Dyna cart for sure to make the conclusions.
syntax's avatar
syntax
2,193 posts
 
there was a very interesting thread about TW products and their owners here in Agon some moths ago ago. An owner called DEV has wide experience with these products and writes about it.

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?eanlg&1365275848&openusid&zzDev&4&5#Dev
dreamauduio OP
24 posts
 
Crossfire , thanks for your suggestion. Actually I started to look at Raven AC with 3 in 1 motor and sme 20.12 table which I have heard them both.

Then I heard the Hartvig which changes the game due to the approach of battery operated supply for motor which the motor can actually run while the battery pack is unplugged. Very black background comes out with rich natural tonal balance on all frequencies.

However I am worried on the battery life span. It may take 3-5 years say 3 years to be conservative and you need replacement.
elinor's avatar
elinor
275 posts
 
DreamA,

I own the Raven with the new 3 motor single box configuration plus the BN motor controller which is battery operated. Very happy with it but remember that any of these tables only reach their performance peak when properly fitted out with an excellent platform and mechanical isolation devices.
crossfire
13 posts
 
Dreamauduio, TW Anniversary has also battery-buffered power supply (kind of Black Night has).

The main difference to Hartwig - as I've already mentioned - is the more massive platter of copper, less prone to stylus drag. Because of that my choise was Anniversary but in the beginning I was also looking towards AC with 3-in-1 motors.

Got no idea how to compare 2 turtables in different systems though. Even the same Brinkmann Balance at the nearest dealer sounded very different 'cause of settings / carts.
audiooracle
387 posts
 

I would also add to your super table list the Kronos.

The Kronos is a fantastic sounding table with a remarkable amount of novel technology. The Kronos uses a second lower deck with a counter rotating platter designed to cancel any vibrations induced by the primary drive system.

The Kronos was just written about by Harry Peasron who stated that the Kronos has elevated their reference system's level of playback quality over the $150,000.00 Clear Audio Table, and the Kronos costs $32,000.00 which is considerable less expensive than the Raven, the Kronos is compact and not super heavy so it fits on normal racks.
pcosta
241 posts
 
Dreamaudio

The Black Night has a battery power supply as standard with that table. It can be a option on the other TW tables if you order it that way.
lewm
12,985 posts
 
Dream, At this level of cost, fussiness, and audiophilia, the mere fact that the battery may last only 3 years should be the least of your concerns. How much could it cost to replace the battery, as against the cost of this or the other turntable, not to mention the cost of the tonearm and cartridge that go with either? IMO, a really well designed power supply that produces the DC voltage necessary to run the motor, which is presumably a DC type, gives away nothing to a battery source, in terms of "black background". Three motors in concert are going to put more "noise" into the platter than any good PS would. Of course, the operative word is "good".
dreamauduio OP
24 posts
 
JUST AN UPDATE -- i just finally got the TW Black Night. After series of tuning and set up of Mc Anna / SME V12 arm , it has finally settled perfectly.

Now , i can say that the BN hefty price tag is justified for its performance.

Superb in every way.

Cheeers !
crossfire
13 posts
 
Congratulations!

Welcome to Raven users "club" ! reference and very musical turntables..
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