Hana ML and Korf head shell

I finally get back and go to get the TT going.

• New belt onto it = Check 
  • (But still falls off when I start it up if I do not give it a twist.)
• Look for anti skate weight from Singapore
  • Cannot find the envelope.
• Need a hole punch or drill for the paper protractors.

Argh

Great!

OK I ordered a p77i, and will figure out what to do with the Korf head shell when it arrives.
A friend may have a LOMC nearby that can be tried with the phono stage to see if it has enough gain. 

Just like many MM cartridges, especially at your budget, Garrott P77i is "best buy" and more user friendly in my opinion. For $500 (equal to AU$ 690) this is fantastic cartridge (on the warm side). You can even try JICO SAS stylus on it in the future.

The P77i is "improved version" of the old Garrott.

The P77i is fitted with a Micro Scanner MKII diamond and tuned accordingly.

The older P77 (which I have) uses a Micro Tracer Diamond. In my system (on $5000 Reed 3p tonearm) Garrott P77 was fantastic and I still have it.

Ok @chakster so I think you ‘re saying they the p77i will found just as good as the Hana ML?
And cheaper to run over time?

Yes, it’s MM cartridge (called Dynamic Coil), so you can change the stylus yourself when needed. You can also load it up to 100k Ohm (the 47k is not mandatory). Garrott Brothers are legends! 

With Hana you can’t do it yourself, you will have to buy a new cartridge when the stylus is worn out (if you want to keep using genuine Hana). This cartridge made by Excel Sound Inc. 

The P77i is listed as MM with an output of 4.0mV. 

Garrott Brothers P77i CartridgeMoving Magnet (MM) Phono Cartridge

• Output Voltage: High output type 4mV @ 3.54cm/sec
• Input Impedance: 47k

So the p77i appears that is HO and MM.
And the Hana ML is LO and MC.
(hence my confusion)

You don’t need a high output MC (more coil winding increases moving mass, that’s bad), if you want an MC cartridge you need Low Output MC.
Gain should not be a problem, Hana is not the lowest output anyway, don’t forget that you might have an active gain stage on your line level preamp in addition to the gain of the phono pre.

My advice is to try Garrott Dynamic Coil P77i cartridge with user replaceable stylus. You will find one on Reed 3p tonearm in my system, effective mass of my Reed is 18.5 gr.

@chakster Thanks.
What is your experience with required gain?

• That Audio Research PH2 is the SS model, and its manual says gain=48dB.
  
• That phono stage shows posts for resister loading, but a flashlight through the holey metal does not reveal them.
• It has balanced In/out and I have a handmade XLR to RCA, which sounds OK and read ~24k resistance, which sounds right for two 47k in parallel.
  

So I am reticent to order the ML until I know whether the phono stage will work, or if I need something else.The other options include the p77i (or the Hana SH) which both give me higher output.

1) Compliance for Garrott measured at 10Hz

2) Compliance for Hana measured at 100Hz (like for all Japanese cartridges).

If you convert 10 at 100Hz to 10Hz it will be 17cu (almost the same as Garrott), this is definitely NOT a low compliance, it’s more like a mid/low end (or you can call it mid compliance which is good for nearly all tonearms, except for too heavy or too light arms).

For any measurements you need to know a compliance figure at 10Hz (not at 100Hz). For Japanese cartridges it’s a bit tricky, you always have to convert to 10Hz first using x 1.7 formula.

Ahhh. I thought that it was purely a spring type of metric.

I sounds like the compliance is also using something like the mass of the cantilever/coils???
(But I would have thought that that was next to zero to capture the high frequencies in the groove?)

[Headed to Google]

The p77i compliance is 18, so it’s a ways away from the Hana at 10 cm/dyne.

1) Compliance for Garrott measured at 10Hz

2) Compliance for Hana measured at 100Hz (like for all Japanese cartridges).

If you convert 10 at 100Hz to 10Hz it will be 17cu (almost the same as Garrott), this is definitely NOT a low compliance, it’s more like a mid/low end (or you can call it mid compliance which is good for nearly all tonearms, except for too heavy or too light arms).

For any measurements you need to know a compliance figure at 10Hz (not at 100Hz). For Japanese cartridges it’s a bit tricky, you always have to convert to 10Hz first using x 1.7 formula.

Ooopsie 48 dB of gain.

The phono amp says 58 dB of gain.I am wounding if that will be enough…? Maybe I need a high output cartridge, or a different phono stage?

The p77i compliance is 18, so it’s a ways away from the Hana at 10 cm/dyne.And the We-317 tonearm manual says “high mass” tonearm.
Are these p77i really good?I read some subjective reviews that seemed to indicate that they’re glary?
Have you fellows tried them?

Definitely 

https://garrottbrothers.com/p77i-cartridge

Chack - I think he is in Australia. Hence my recommendation of Garrot Bro.

You can count, every stylus can be used for certain amount of hrs, it depends on the stylus profile. If your cantridge was stored for 5 years - no problem, but there are still 10 more years before that. If you don’t like the sound it might be a worn stylus (it can be inspected under the microscope by SoundSmith or someone else for $30).

sure have at it ! 24/7/365 Global Support Hotline

@chakster … like a moron, I forgot to mention I have a lathe… so that instagram page is perfect.
Worn out in suspension? Or worn out in stylus?
(It has not been used at all in the last 5 years or so… for a variety of reasons… none good.)

@tomic601 what do you mean by a bit polite?
(Maybe I should call? - I have the number in a PM, but it must be getting late there.)

OP, i recall you are also on Vandy site Steve E there has a Bluepoint and can comment on age, etc. I have a Hana ML it is a bit polite, w my phono ( Herron ) a smooth performer.

You can make custom sub weight or ring weight if you don’t have the original. Check custom ring weight for SAEC (and other tonearms) on this instagram page.


Headshell will not help you to get rid of the sibilance, but a new stylus profile and proper alignment can help (if it’s not pressing or recording itself).

I currently have a Blue Point Special which is ~15 years old.

If it was in use regularly for 15 years then it’s worn out long time ago

Thanks @tomic601

Thanks @chakster the dynamic compliance is listed at: 10 x 10(-6) cm/dyne (100Hz). The Korf choose is mainly because it looks to be well damped, so I am hoping that the sibilance can be tamed.

@three_easy_payments: Does that mean I would need that W-30H counter weight on the tail end? Or that I “might”

And should this be an improvement over the “Blue point Special”?

I particularly do not like a lot of sibilance, but often the recordings where the sibilance seems to built into, from the start..

Or should I be looking at the Hana SL, or something else that could be a more appropriate choice?

I have an Audio Research PH2 that it will run into… does that seem like the right piece to be using? Or should I be putting attention there? I have no complaints with it, nor with the blue point special… just that the BPS is 15 years old and I am also overhauling the SOTA.

Chack - OP may need help w saec parts

Any headshell with slots will work (if you can balance the arm), you need slots if you want to change the geometry of the tonearm to a common Stevenson or Baerwald. SAEC geometry is different, to change the geometry you will have to move and twist your cartridge in the headshell slots.

Can’t remember the dynamic compliance of Hana, but for SAEC it should be fine.

You should be fine with the Hana ML but you may be between weights (leaning to the heavier) so hopefully you have both to try.  Hana ML is 9.5g and the headshell is 13g.

Applicable cartridge/headshell weight: 14.5 to 20.5g (standard weight), 20.5 to 35.0g (W-30H weight)