Has anyone compared the Diablo 300 to 120? I could afford the 300 but the weight is bordering me. Nowadays I prefer amps which I able to carry alone, unaided and the 120 is much more appealing in this respect.
Assuming the speakers do not present a difficult load, will the 120 sound close to the 300 and won't lose much?
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I must agreed with OP Harbeth statement, no matter the price, SHL5+ XD and 40.3XD are absolutely winners against everything, specially paired with EAR Yoshino or any nice SS amps.
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low325,
I am considering the Diablo 120. How long have you owned it ? What were you using before? |
!!bumping an old thread….!!
Thanks for the thorough review on the Diablo (300) DAC @raindog031 !
Diablo 120 w/optional dac module owner here. I’m going to echo everything that the OP said here. The integration here is truly remarkable. I also have a Lumin X1 which now has about 600 hours on it.
Let me just say, I think I’m going back to streaming into the Diablo. Thats not to say I am giving up on the X1 completely. Kind of a weird scenario I have here…one dac is bundled with the amp, and the other dac is bundled with the streamer. You could say I boxed myself in with these options. Though, still either way I feel like listening, it still comes from the same streamer (X1). The X1 will give me the flexibility of ‘potentially’ getting a new amp (less a built in preamp) as I really like the Lumin’s app and sound so I’d like to continue with it. The Lumins (U1, (MINI), X1 - worked my way up) paired with the Diablo 120 w/dac sounds so good. Just about anything I play on it, to my ears, are very musical, natural and so balanced together with my TAD ME-1s and Dual REL Carbon Specials.
I’m suspecting the Diablo DAC tuned with shallow XO slopes give it that really smooth and BIG sound stage - providing a similar profile to analog source but still adding a liveliness, full of emotion from the Gryphon characteristic. |
Hi Ryanz,
Pushing C4 in that small room is questionable...i had them in 15x20ft room and that was borderline...your dynas need to breathe to show full potential...you dont have sufficient distance from speakers to develop bass as it should be...size of speakers like contour 3.4 and c2 are better choice for your room dimensions(which is almost square which is also problematic and not ideal) dynas will work good with diablo 300 but if you want something else, what budget for speakers do you plan to spend...maybe some supermonitor with good bass like Tad CR1 would be good choice for your room... |
Hi,
Its a long but very good read. I’m planning to get the diablo 300 to pair with dynaudio C4s and i would like to know what room size should i have for this pairing at the minimum requirement and also optimum for it. If i have a 14.5 feet wide and 16 feet deep will it be sufficient enough?
Currently im using Dynaudio Contour S5.4 with Devialet d200 in my living and im planing to move to new house in the future therefore i would like to know my directions needed for my future upgrades and my plan is to have diablo 300 with C4s as i use them for doubles music and movies.
In case if the best size dedicated room that i can afford to have is 14.5 ft wide x 16 ft deep what will be my best options of speakers to pair with diablo 300 ?
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It gets just warm...you feel that a bit more when its the summer time but thank god air conditioners exist...you can put your hand on a heatsink, it will be hot but you can hold your arm on it...dont be bothered with things like that...its good for component to get warm...at least you know there is some electricity going through it...Diablo is high bias AB class so yes it does get warm...to get my perspective, with 211 tubes is another story...they are great little heater by the winter but at summer when i listen to them and then leave the room for a 10mins and then come back i sense smell and feel like someone burned something in the room :)
but i dont really care cuz superior sound is what i seek...you definitively wont experience that kind of heat with Diablo...enjoy your interesting quest...
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@raindog031
Should have expounded on the TAD amp/pre and room conditions. The first time I heard the ME-1s was in a room that was all drywall and travertine. It was very echoey and therefore I couldn't get an idea of sound quality. I revisted the same dealer and room two months later and the proprietor had since put six Stillpoints Apertures in the room and it was much better. This second time is when I heard the TAD amp/pre amp and it may be that the room is still a little too hot. So, I haven't written the TAD electronics off, but I do need to hear them in the bigger room where the sound quality is really good. Hope this helps with my prior comments. |
@raindog031
Much appreciation for your reply.
Not to belabor the point, but, is the temperature as you call it "hot", warm or truly hot? How long can you put your hand on it before you must remove it? Again, sorry to belabor the point. And as far as the Diablo is all good for music making in 30-40 minutes, how do the first 30-40 minutes sound? I've heard some amps that did not sound good at all until they hit that warm up time and yet another that sounded pretty good at start up but in 15 minutes was as good as it was going to get.
Thanks for the spike comment, it was as I thought.
The TAD speakers were best for me on Burmester gear and there was a great ease to the music with great resolution as well. But, that was on the 909 MK5 and the 911 MK3s, those are way out of my budget. I've also heard the TAD amp/pre amp on
the ME-1s
and would also like to hear them on the E-1s. On the ME-1s it was good but also very dynamic to the point of being startling and I doubt I could turn up the volume beyond what it was at, fairly loud, and not have it be uncomfortable. I hope to hear the E-1s with the 300, Pass INT 250, Luxman L509X (class A/B), and a Burmester integrated to see if I can get pretty close to the sound with the
909 MK5 and the 911 MK3s.
I'm not sure I will be able to hear the Mojo or Mojo S, so probably off my radar.
I've heard the darTZeel mono blocks (that system was sublime, again way out of my budget) and the Nagra Classic Amp and Preamp, also very $$ but very good sound again.
So, in the end, I'm going to keep listening and if a really good deal comes up, I will have to decide then.
I appreciate your other recommendations and will take a look at them.
Merry Christmas.
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Hi Pokey
i am glad you are searching music and emotion firstly....special effects secondly...
to answer your questions...yes Diablo gets hot...not too hot...but you can feel he slightly heats the room of 30square meters...significantly hotter than last model...but i just dont care...i leave it on all the time...so it can give its best anytime i want it...you will get optimal sound in about 30-40 minutes when you turn it on...so no big deal...
Black spikes i put in my case gave nothing substantial...just a little bit less stress in sound on loud volumes (and i probably convinced myself i hear that)...so nothing meaningful to report...they look better than those funny original feets if nothing...but to make such expensive speakers and amps and not include spikes with them as alternative included in price...geez...
I heard those TADs you are interested in Munich and yes they are solid performer but certanly league of speaker that needs careful matching for each personal taste...TAD electronics allthough world class sounds a little bit sterile in contrast to real music...Gryphon Mojo S is also a great beast that cryes for quality electronics behind it...but it is not quantum leap in better performance than last incarnation...so i think if you shoot high you can find and buy first Mojo for much less money from time to time on internet which is also world class high end monitor...and with lots of saved money in that direction you add money you already meant to spend and buy better electronics so you can make this speaker really sing...
to also hear Harbeth line is recommended...dont let be fooled with their price...one of good deals if you like their character of sound would be Raidho speakers but only in second hand, dont buy them new cuz they make new models every few years so value of older models is dropping big time...
i think you should hear them and decide...but stay away from small models of that brand cuz when you listen them louder (you also mentioned HT) they will fall apart...but if their obvious design limitations in some aspects doesnt bother you, that could be one of serious contenders...
Speaking of electronics i would also look at the Absolare hibryd integrated, Pass labs A class amps, second hand Dartzeel CTH 8550 integrated would be very nice, also dont overlook at the Vitus Audio class A electronics, Nagra electronics, Gryphon Antilleon EVO and second hand Gryphon preamp would be nice also...try to listen to yourself as much as you can and dont think that necesarily one brand sinergy will bring you satisfaction...on the end that is only their perception of real music...i ask myself for the most manufacturers if they are actually listen to their components and try to make them sound like real music before they release them...so be very cautious and dont get hurry...i hope my answer will satisfy you and if you have any other questions feel free to ask...
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@raindog031 Just to help you understand me and my “end-game” system
journey:
My current system is Martin Logan Vantage speakers, McIntosh
MA6500 integrated, Oppo 105 Universal player, Shunyata Hydra power
conditioning. I bought the speakers/integrated ten years ago fully expecting to
let them get me to the end; don’t mean to be morbid, just realistic. But then I
went to all but one of the Newport audio shows, the LA Audio Show, and lots of
dealer get-togethers. The audio shows helped me see there was significantly better
gear out there and so I started doing by-appointment-only auditions this year of
gear I’m interested in. So, I hope all this puts “end game” into perspective
now. FYI - my room is 13.5 feet wide and 20
feet deep.
A new, much better resolving system, will likely be four
times what I paid for the last one, so though that may be a lot for some and
not even a drop in the bucket for others, I just know I gotta get this one
right – no mistakes. I really appreciate your comments on the Diablo 300. Though
not cheap, it’s not a $45k D’Agostino integrated either (which sounds really
good too). All I’ve read on the 300 just says it is a spectacular performer. I
live in the same county as the US distributor and a dealer that I’ve done a few
auditions with thinks he can get a 300 and so I hope to hear it soon. The
speakers he has that I really like are the TAD Evolution Series; ME-1, CE-1,
and E-1. I’ve heard them with Burmester and a little with Pass. Hope to hear
the newly released Luxman L-509X, the Diablo 300, Pass, and the Burmester
integrated with the TADs soon too.
A couple questions for you: Does the 300 run hot, or does it
just take a long time to come on song; should it be left on all the time? Wasn’t
sure from your review about these finer points. Also, you mentioned you bought
the Gryphon Black Spikes. Do you feel they made a substantial change for the
good?
You advised, “be ultra critical listener...demand undeniable
emotions...if they dont come out then that system is not for you”. I
couldn’t agree more; really. I know a few systems that do that for me and I
will only buy into a system that conveys the flow and emotion of the music.
Thanks for confirming how important those qualities are. You also said “thank God
there is a bunch of great sounding brands in the world so find
yourself a friendly dealer, give yourself some time and find your own way...”
This is what I’m working on now, finding that dealer with the equipment that sings
for me, and that will work with me and understands my needs and budget and even
provide help getting my room to sound like it should.
Raindog031, again, I appreciate your detailed comments and
they point in a direction that sounds like music to me. I may also try to get
my dealer to get the Mojo S for audition. I do believe in the synergy that can
be created by products in a brands line. I hear you on tubes, but they just won’t
work for me in my situation at home, so the best SS I can afford will have to
do. Also, my system also does double duty as a 2-channel home theatre, so I’ll
be looking for as much scale as my budget can afford.
Finally, you said “I think you can get a great involving sound
for less money depending on parameters that are important to you...in which
I may or may not help depending on question...but back to my story few of you said
you are interested...” Yes, I would be interested in your observations
and comments on lower-priced alternatives. In fact, they’d be most appreciated.
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wow...nowdays on Audiogon man cannot mention a brand in discussion and the
dealers start to jump out from the pate :)
Jafant thanks and i hope you had a good read...
Pokey77 thank you very much on kind words...i hope you are not serious about
end game system :) that is a lot of commitment...and looking at the level of
equipment you mentioned you will have to have a good dealer willing to audition
those in your home...i hope you dont buy on blind...High End Munich is a good
place to at least hear those systems...all the brands you mentioned are great and
established...but also very expensive...i think you can get a great involving
sound for less money depending on parameters that are important to you...in which
i may or may not help depending on question...but back to my story few of you
said you are interested...
now as i have Gryphon Pantheons for a few months and had toyed with the different electronics i can have a few meaningful observations...Pantheons are nominally driven with Diablo 300 with dac and as a transport at the moment im using Naim Core which is obviously my "weak link" all though for the money this unit plays great...
this combination technically plays really great...there is nothing missing and
everything is on its place but this combination has less of emotional involvement i got used to with Harbeth c7es3,Ladder Dac and Ongaku combination...so when friend brought his own made high end transport things got more involving and more natural than on Naim...
so anyone playing with this combination better use high quality analog sounding transport to give its best...Pantheons are highly resolving and they need to be connected on components of similar pedigree to give its best...you literally hear every change in the chain greatly...they are so transparent that i was few times thinking to sell them:)...to fine tune them and make the sound to be exactly
to your liking you must have a lot of patience and lot of high quality equipment(money) by side to experiment and properly implement them...one of the things i search is a
that natural vibration of wooden instruments Harbeth gives you immediately with its design...they make box itself vibrate but it does it on most natural way...so now
because i have speakers with "dead" cabinet i must search that natural vibration
through components in the chain and at some point i will get even better sound than Harbeths but at which price i ask myself...dont want to scare people off as Gryphons are truly magnificent speaker but i must tell that this is far far from plug and play a bit game...also toying with acoustics gave great results...on this speaker you hear everything alot and that may bother someone but opposing to lets say Magico which are also very transparent speaker this speaker tells you "this source does this good, does this bad but i will continue to play music best as i can now" while on magicos miss that and you will leave the room in 15 minutes...
that does not mean that Gryphon is more smooth or colored sounding speaker...no...they did not make a speaker to be as much neutral transducer...they made it neutral transducer that meant to be reproducing music with all of its virtues through him, for which the damn thing was made for...not some transparent made speaker that is firstly here to show you difference between connected gear...not here to bash magico or something but i heard their M floorstander in Munich (and bunch of their other speakers on different systems) on TT and while its resolution and refinement is beyond reproach and clear statement to whole world it still sounded analythical and was not on a trail of sound of natural music to me...anyone who like that "sound", more power to them but i just want to contrast you what Pantheon speaker is not...
Pantheons connected to my friends Ongaku clone, his prototype Ladder Dac and Naim Core/his prototype cd transport...this is a bit hard to say but i must be objective...it simply trashed my Gryphon electronics beyond recognition in sense of emotional involvement and naturalness...
Diablo kept focus on much higher levels i rarely listen to, had better control of bass overall and had more presence on drums but that 27 watt tube amp and his electronics sounds as nothing i heard in my space...you rarely hear thatlike natural sound with scale...sound is open and flows and flows on that most natural way, attack, sustain and decay of tones are something to behold...it is all perfectly connected...friend likes my speaker so much that he will use it as one of his test platforms for high end electronics he will make and in a year or two make it a commercial products...i know many DIY-ers but this guy is crazy...
i wont sell Diablo cuz it is great amp in its own merits but i will must save for this
guys equipment before it goes commercial...he said that he is "cooking" his own valve amp even better then this Ongaku clone (for which he says it is about 80% of original sound)
it is so good combination that it is foolish to describe how great resolution is or how large is soundstage...i can only say that when i am on my work i cant wait to get back home to listen to great music...
the point of the whole story is that i equally enjoyed music on this combination as with harbeths which is 15 times cheaper speaker with much less scale...but when you get sinergy of system and the music pops out, emotion starts to work...you suppose to admire to music when you listen not to admire details, imaging, soundstage etc.those things are irrelevant when the music is no1...so Pokey77 dont let anything fool you...be ultra critical listener...demand undeniable emotions...if they dont come out then that system is not for you...and dont think that you cannot make great end game musical system with much less money than to just splash 200,000 for MBL and think you done your best...but if you like to have a pretty shiny things with great specs to impress friends that is different story...thank god there is a bunch of great sounding brands in the
world so find yourself a friendly dealer, give yourself some time and find your own way...
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Thanks! for sharing your thoughts and listening impressions- raindog031
Happy Listening!
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Pokey,
It is a great time to be an audiophile, we have experience with the MBL electronics as well as the T+A as we are their East Coast Dealer.
MBL's are a bit on the dark side as well as being huge and the MBL speakers are a unique proposition that have issues with being Omni's.
We have compared the T+A stereo amp and power supply which are $32k to the MBL Monos and found the T+A gear to offer a similar tonal quality while being faster and less dark.
We have also compared this combo vs a $90k Boulder setup and did find the Mono Boulders to be a bit better but is was an unfair fight as it was the stereo T+A vs the Mono Boulder.
If you are on the East Coast you should come in and take a listen to our setup as well as Delves, these are two of the finest solid state lines out there.
Troy
Audio Doctor
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I am biased, because I am a Gryphon dealer in NJ (full disclosure). This is a unit which has to be heard to be believed. If you have a local Gryphon dealer and think an integrated doesn't cut it, you're in for a more than pleasant surprise. |
@raindog031
Just wanted show my appreciation for the review. I am in the process of listening to a lot of gear and want to build an end-game system. So integrateds like the Gryphon, T+A, Burmester, Nagra, all interest me. For reference, I'm also very interested in an all-MBL system. So I do think that sometimes a system that uses speakers/electronics all by the same manufacturer can have very good synergy.
Based on your findings, the Gryphon is a killer. I appreciate the candor in your comments and look forward to your findings with your new speakers and other gear you mentioned. Cheers |
Hi folks...i am sorry my response was not immediate but i was on a vacation in beautiful island of Krk in Adriatic sea so in moments like that i like to turn my self off...
Blindjim...unfortunately i only compared 300 with previous Diablo in my room...it is hard to find someone willing to bring in my room high quality amp on similar level and similar strength which can properly push C4s so i can have meaningful conclusions...but i have heard alot of interesting equipment in other "rooms" to at least help you and guide your possible direction but you have to tell me which speakers you have, what is your source and rest of your system and what you prefer...i have heard expensive Gryphons in other systems and they are naturally level for it self but if you shoot high, have some money and you are not obsessed with constant changes i assume Antilleon Evo would be the end of journey if it has synergy with rest of the chain...Mephisto is "better" all though a bit different but you probably wouldnt notice that untill you hear them side by side...if i can help you anyhow just say but you have to specify some things if you are a serious buyer...
David_ten...thank you for having a time and read it...it is not an usual product so i did not wanted to describe it in a What Hi-Fi fashion...if i helped/directed even one curious man i am satisfied...regarding my system...i am waiting for Gryphon Pantheon speakers and i should have them in a week or two...i renovated my room completely so i expect a great things in whole Gryphon system when i fine tune it...
hear this little side story...my friend is building amplifiers...and he build a Kondo Ongaku clone which i heard it in his space and was very very good...but on one occasion he borrowed it with also his made ladder DAC to me (i was given a temporary replacement Harbeth speakers becuz i changed C4s and my analogue rig with some payment for Pantheons)...so damn...all though for now have much smaller sound in every way than on my C4s and previous system i have not heard so great mids and musicality never in my room...it works so well that you just dont give a damn about details, bass, is it clean or not...it just works music without of any mechanical artifacts in sound...so you can imagine of my swag as a SS guy who btw also heard a lot of tubes but was never impressed (ok i was impressed with real Kondo but not his pricing hehe)...but this was something different...i was amazed...on a 6 times cheaper speakers...we also tryed it on my friends Monitor Audio Platinum 300 speakers which is 100-300W recomended...those 27W amp worked way better and more natural than some 200W amps we tried...on such a demanding speaker but it is not too strange cuz 211 have a lots of voltage (i was kicking myself we did not tryed it on my C4s)...so now i must try how Pantheons are working with that Ongaku clone which is cheaper to done than 300 but on a clearly higher level...i will also see what Gryphon synergy has to say...good thing that my friend is owner of Ongaku so he can borrow me to properly hear it and his DAC against Diablo 300 and his DAC on Pantheons...so there will be some interesting times my audiophile brothers...i think i will keep both :)...
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@raindog031 Thank you for your detailed post on the Gryphon Diablo.
I still kick myself for not purchasing the original Diablo. I remember my two extended auditions like they were yesterday, and in amazing detail. It was a phenomenal integrated back then and I can imagine what Gryphon has brought to their new Diablo.
I put my cash towards Totem Winds instead, and though I remember them in my system (with BAT and ARC gear) the Diablo is the one that haunts, in a good way.
Looking forward to hearing more about your system and the Diablo. |
is it possible for you to input your comparisons to other similar Integrated amps on the market today?
or, can you say anything about the Gryphon dedicated amp and its sound vs the 300?
I know the big 150 wpc stereo amp is a lot more money, but voices are voices, and ampas all have their own voice.
thanks so very much.
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Yes...now more people will certainly appreciate Gryphon electronics...of course they cant be everyones cup of tea but they do build quality equipment on a very high level...300 is by all means on a higher level of fidelity than the first Diablo...as it should be...
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Thanks for the review. It's exciting time now that Gryphon finally has a US distributor (On a Higher Note). I've heard the original Diablo, and I was very much impressed by it. I hope I would be able to acquire one in the near future. |
