I live in Sydney in the eastern suburbs.
Copperhead has VTA 'on the fly'.
You're very welcome to come over to hear the arm which has the Dynavector DV1s attached.
I have the Hadcock GH228 with ZYX Universe also attached and am waiting for the arrival of the Schroeder Ref tone arm to replace the Hadcock.
The only Cobras you can hear are mounted on Caliburns and all the other Copperheads are mounted on Criterion TTs.
Email me if you want to come over? |
From Kdtran's post it sounds like the Triplanar retrieves all of the information in the grooves while the Graham ignores some of it to make a more "musical" presentation? |
Downunder,
I had both tonearms on the Teres 340 which accommodate 2 arms and did them under very similar conditions so it was a very fair comparison - i tried to match them very close for this comparison (using both Dynavector XV-1s, same phono cable with Audioquest Leopard and going to the wonderful steelhead which allow me to hook up both tonearms at the same time and with only a simple switch i can go back and forth). Look at my systems setup to get a better idea of my other equipments.
This is my conclusion about the 2 arms:
Phantom: a warmer and laid back sound; tonally sweeter and better midrange and more musical in my opinion. If you crave dynamics, details and live sound, this is not the tonearm for you. With the Koetsu, it's too laid back - i found this arm match better with the Dynavector or the Lyra (tame down these cartridge).
TriPlanar: a very aggressive, live and dynamic arm. Give you all the details you want and very neutral - too neutral in my opinion and can lead to listening fatigue. Very well match with warmer cartridge like the Koetsu.
It's nothing wrong with getting both arm as they are very different in my opinion, i don't think one was better than the other, it's just a matter of taste.
I ended up getting the phantom for a while as i am a midrange freak but when i heard the Kuzma Airline, i am SOLD. Hope that help... |
Heh Halcro
Do you live in Sydney. I would luv to hear the raven and copperhead.
Can one get a demo of tyhe copperhead or cobra??
Does the copperhead have VTA on the fly?? |
Hey Downunder......I can't believe that being in Australia, you don't take advantage of having access to the Continuum Copperhead tonearm?!
This arm quite frankly, moves design parameters to a new level.
It's big brother (the Cobra), is the REAL reason that Michael Fremmer is hearing his Continuum Caliburn as a reference vinyl source like no other.
I've got the Copperhead mounted on my Raven AC and whilst it did take over 6 months to actually obtain one (Asia is taking all the Caliburns and Criterion tables that Continuum can build)....it is a bargain for us in Oz at AUS$8000 compared to the US$12000 price in USA.
There are many advantages to living in Australia.
For audiophiles, Halcro and Continuum Audio Labs are 2 more! |
Hey Downunder,forgot to mention I have a close friend with the Art series II!What a great pre!!!!!!I think it is amazing!!!!!!
Best of luck. |
OK I'll bite!....I do love the Phantom,with the experience of using one(my friend's/with my own on order)in conjunction with the Transfiguration Temper-v,and the Transfiguration Orpheus.It is SO good,that I finally gave up on my beloved(boy,I really liked it)Graham 2.2(which is a steal on the used market).
The only reason I decided to go for the Phantom was the amazing performance(way beyond the Temper-v,which seemed fabulous,to me)of the Orpheus.Yes,I have received personal E-mails from a dealer who sold both the Orpheus and the Air Tight PC-1,and he stated emphatically the Orpheus was superior.It was just hobby talk,with NO hype,or expectations.Just his opinion,but that resonated with me,so (if you can believe this,which is true....and a bit pathetic...unless one is a vinylista)when I vacationed in Vegas this past summer,I decided that all gambling monies would go to the Orpheus purchase,and was a "cheap bastard" at all gaming tables/slots.The crupiers hated me!!I think I spent a total of 60 bucks that week gambling(a scratch out lottery ticket is BIG TIME gambling to me,btw)but knew my Orpheus would come that much sooner!On the monies the The Mirage was "not" going to get-:)...Had a great time at the restaurants and shows,but the "easy loser monies" went to the big "O" fund!
So I came home(this "does" lead to something,about the Phantom,btw)and ordered the big "O"!Got it in two days.The importer,Bob Clarke is an amazingly fine person to deal with!I was actually shocked at his good naturedness,in holding the old pricing,and traded in my Temper-V!
Happily I mounted the "O" on my Graham 2.2.My friend now had the Phantom/Orpheus combo(which I set up),and I had the 2.2/Orpheus.We both have the same set-ups,except he has the Magico Mini,and I have an Avalon Ascent MK-II/Rel Stentor combo(believe it,or not,there is an amazing similarity here,from about thirty five hz on up).My room is larger,and is dedicated to two channel audio....OK....thought everything would stop there,as I have spent way more on new stuff(Exact Power EP-15a/Ultrapure,amp upgrades,new tubes,accessories,turntable updates,P/C changes,new circuit box etc,etc....I really wanted to be done with it,and get back to collecting new,interesting vinyl.My first love,which took a back seat for too long!
In went the "O",and yes I was happy(I thought).Then I realized the "O" was so good,I simply heard a different "tracing/tracking/noiselessness" at my friend's home,which I knew was the difference in the two arms.Sometimes you just know stuff from experience.If this was three years ago,I'd have been clueless about what I was hearing,but knew the Phantom "had" to be gotten.
OK...it was amazing in dynamics,tone color,detail,stage width and stage height(which literally jumped up the back wall).There was a "hugeness" to the sound,which was had with his older Kharma speakers too(the Phantom was in "the Kharma set-up as well").I NEEDED "that" aura,in my set-up,and knew how to get it!!
I played around,alot,with the Phantom(at my friend)and we played my reference discs aplenty.There is no doubt in my mind(as of now)that I really believe this arm is on par with the performance I remember the the Air Tangent got,in terms of "no noise artifacts" riding along with the music.THIS IS a BIG deal!!NOT the linear advantage of the Air Tangent,but the "absolutely no noise/resonance" which many pivoting arms seem to have,to some degree.
Now,sadly(I mean sadly,since I am reaching my patience/ limit in tweakery,and just want to spin some damn discs again)I knew I was not going to be happy until I got a Phantom(which my armboard is drilled for,as there is always a financial consideration in equip purchases).
I don't know if a gimbal bearing is as quiet,but am willing to give the benefit of the doubt to those in the know,who say these new "best" ones are super.I just know the Phantom is great!
My own audio pals group is laden with lovers of different arms,from various mfgrs,and I respect their choices.BUT I still go for what I like.So should you!
Intuition and good logic,with a decent set of ears seldom screws up!
Hope this helps.
Good luck(btw,Hewitt won't last long...field is too deep)
|
Hi Sirspeedy. Watching the Aust Open at the moment - pity Roddick got rolled last night - go Hewitt!!
You have not answered any of my questions :-) - come on your opinion is valid or are both arm that similar??
ps - I was comparing phantom with graham's previous arms prior to to when the phantom came out, as I believe they are quite different sounding.
I have the HRX with heavy platter. I am not that interested in the 12.7 as valhalla cable will probably add more detail and less weight, when I have plenty of detail now. I also have 2 x 12.6 arms so changing to a 12.7 is a little counter productive.
I find the HRX/12.6 a little forward / thin in the upper mids/lower treble. cartridge makes a difference however my impression of the sonic trait is always there.
My Linn LP12 / naim aro has a slightly smoother treble however does not have that great VPI bass weight.
cheers |
BTW,Downunder...as a good amount of my friends own the VPI TNT(latest,with heavy platter)why are you not interested in the new VPI 12.7 arm?Just curious.
Best |
Downunder,my response is not to dissuade you from any inquiry,which you are absolutely entitled to......Yet,the Phantom is NOT a different beast from earlier versions,on sonics!I have owned the Triplanar,and am extremely familiar with the Phantom.Even though my three year stint with the "Tri" was not perfect I'd be hard pressed to give one a thumbs up,over the other at "this point" in time,with these "latest" versions!
I just cannot believe one of these "newest" versions is more than a "tiny" bit better than the other,in specific areas,with the most popular,and highly regarded cartridges.C'mon...The cartridge is WAY more important,based on these two great arm designs!!Actually,as has been demonstrated to me,on countless occassions,the "best(early)LP pressings" are far more important than all this minute discourse!Not on absolutely every occassion(I know A.Salvatore loves a ton of re-issues,but he is wrong about a good majority of early pressing vs re-issue comparisons,for the most part...not always,but pretty darn often...Often enough,to make the search for the best early stuff worthy!Meaningful,if you love the best in LP replay!)It would be better to worry about "this",more than the differences between two such good arms!How come nobody seems to care much about this?
Just an opinion,or five,but I can't wait for the rational of those thinking one is actually superior,to the other.Be it arm,or pressing worthyness....Whew,feels kind of good,to be a bit like my old self!OK,the feeling went away-:)
BTW Downunder,sorry if I come across as a bit rude.I truly wish you the best,and have no doubt whatever arm you move to will be fabulous.Whichever one!!Go for the best deal,and spend the balance on the Australian Open tix!!Lucky guy!!!
Best! |
Gents
to clarify, all I am asking is one's personal view of both arm's relative to each other if they have indeed heard both, as they are both SOTA. Understand there is no such thing as best in this obsessive world of hifi.
My preference is for a slightly organic, warmer tone compared to my current table, the HRX while maintaining great dynamics and bass.
I believe that may be the triplaner, however I know the phantom is a lot differenmt beast to earlier versions and I have not heard either in my system.
my cartridges are dyna XV-1, koetsau rosewood, denon 103r, ortofon jubilee, clearaudio concerto, audio tec OC9.
cheers |
Downunder,I know you are an experienced 'phile,so I am going to give my personal opinion.If you actually believe one is "across the board better",with the criteria you give here,than I am simply at a loss for words.
Based on the latest improvements made to both(classic) arms I'd be happy with either one!So would you!!
Yes,the cartridge will determine which is the best choice,but I have to assume you already know this.
I am pretty convinced that a thread asking which particular cartridge would maxx out "your" particular system/music preferrences(a pretty good set-up,as I can see)would be far more meaningful.
I think you already know the scoop,but what the heck,let's see what comes up,on this thread.-:)
Best. |
It depends on your Phonostage, the connected cable and the Cartrdige in general. Klick me softly |
Can't help but hope you get an answer. I'm getting a Raven AC and am putting a 12" Ortofon AS-309s on first and will be adding another arm in the fall. I'm leaning towards a Phantom but am curious about the Tri-Planar myself. |
A long time ago I compared - at home - three arms wih an Ortofon SPU (which had been rebuilt). The arms were the 1.5 graham, a Triplanar (the first Mk with a fat arm-tube) and an early Breuer 9" (with damping trough).
Now I know that this is not experience directly related to your question as the arms were much earlier than contemporary arms: also the cartridge was not - probably - what you have in mind. But here are some points which you may like to bear in mind.
The Graham was not suitable with a high-energy low compliance cartridge...everything was wrong.
The Breuer was excellent however it only worked at its best - especially in the bass region - with some damping applied.
The Wheaton was a better all round cartridge in my opinion. It performed with gusto and greater musical ability, though the Breuer was pretty close. I bought the Wheaton.....and then my troubles began!!
Both were excellent within ALL the specific areas which interest you.
As I have said the SPU is a very high energy cartridge and thus puts enormous strain on the bearings. It was not long before I heard the sound quality roll off, and after much exploration I found that the bearings were loose and damaged.
I still had the Breuer and by now it shone out as the better arm. A little work by fitting a carbon shaped platform (to house the non-flat top surface of the SPU) obviously increased its mass. This really turned a very good arm into a superb arm. I had the Wheaton rebuilt and sold it (along with the Graham)
Most of the problems with the Wheaton have been solved in the contemporary version and I am sure that I would like to try the new one as even the Mk11 sounded sublime. The Graham was simply a mismatch in my case and the Breuer was a compromised, but effective solution.
I would also like to try the Ikeda arm as I replaced the Breuer with a Fidelity Research 64S. This was the absolute best in my system.
You will probably be using a totally different type of cartridge and thus will find most of this inapplicable. |
