Evie, Welcome to the Forum. One solution is to consider getting "Audirvana" ($75) for your tablet or pc. It comes with free updates forever and you also get a remote version for your cell phone that will allow you to manage the tablet/pc. It is more than just a player, and will allow you to access your hard drive, other library sources and stream Qobuz or Tidal. You will need to invest in a quality DAC for Audirvana to recognize and USB/SPDIF is a fine cable choice.
Later as you grow into network management you may decide to use Roon but that is a large capital expense and a bit complicated for a new person. It is wise to get a quiet machine and choose the best DAC you can afford. Good Luck!
Edit: Free for 30 days so you can test. |
Evie, I forgot your other question, "Why a DAC" . That is a huge topic all by itself and a quality DAC does a lot of different things. It is much more than just a chip. Here is a link to a video that will help you understand more as you shop for the DAC you need. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McoA82-fi9s
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Are you running iTunes on an iPad or a computer?
Which OS are you using and which version of iTunes?
Exactly what is happening to your music files?
How are they getting disorganized?
I ripped my CDs (about 400 CDs) lossless over 10 years ago to my Mac and have been streaming my music wirelessly to 4 different systems ever since. I am currently using a Mac Mini running headless as my music server. I have a stand alone DAC in 3 systems and an integrated amp with an internal DAC in the 4th system. You will definitely want a DAC.
I use iTunes and have never lost any files or had any disorganization. In fact it works perfectly and I have never had any issue. We use our iPhones or iPads as remotes to control our music selection.
All 4 of my systems are dead quiet with absolutely no noise. I have never had any EMF noise.
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I gave up on iTunes a few years ago and went to Spotify. Easy to use and you can use your iPhone or iPad.
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The OP is right about iTunes/Apple Music's disorganization. Everything looks organized within iTunes itself but if you look at the folder structure in iTunes Media within the Music folder at the Finder level you'll see that the original album structure has been completely scrambled. Individual music files, regardless of format or the album they originally came from, are scattered across multiple folders in a structure only iTunes can navigate. That's all fine if you want to continue use only iTunes/Apple Music for playing from your Mac but if you want to use an application like Audirvana or JRiver you're out of luck. Both those will show that same complete jumble of music files and albums. |
Dacs do not need to be hugely expensive. Audiosciencereview.com (ASR) has shown that there is almost no correlation between price and performance when it comes to Dacs. Use the component browser on that site and the reviews to find a dac with good performance at a price point you are comfortable with, and you’re off to the races.
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I have looked at the iTunes music file at the finder level many times and my files are all well organized. My album structure is not scrambled but is in alphabetical order under the artist name. If you have an album with multiple artists, than the album can be placed into a compilation folder when ripped or each individual artist in the album would have its own folder, whichever you choose.
There is a separate folder for artwork and there are two .itdb files and one .itl file. These files keep track of song ratings and how many times a song has been played. These files can simply be recreated if missing.
I can see where this arrangement can be a problem with Classical music, but I don't have any Classical music.
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Thanks For all the info guys! Awesome wealth of knowledge, Gettin some good advice. So a dac is what we used to call a soundcard in a computer, and presumambly an outboard dac offers better performance than those in most computers and phones. I remember when digital was just coming out guys building dedicated towers to run their digital. One thing I noticed is that most outboard dacs have pretty traditional circuits, caps and resistors, so that looks good to me.
So I mostly listen to digital stored on hard drive through a macbook, old os, old itunes, definitely contributes to my problems, but i'm not the kind of person to get the latest thing and spend money on updates and whatnot that will be obsolete in a year, wish I could tell you that was gonna change, but it's not.
Basically my itunes refuses to read some file names, images and metadata, puts songs in wrong albums or removes album names periodically, creates and modifies playlists and albums including their name and artist, so i spend hours manually inputting information only to have it scrambled. Yes I know its my own fault for running outdated versions. I'm sure it's great for most people and if it works for you more power to you! I'm looking for something simple that won't do things without being directed to do them. Also the interface is junk. Has anybody scoped these various players to see if there are any differences or done listening comparisons on the same system?Also anyone building dacs with boards, I'd be more interested in that than most of what I see out there. When the device producing the signal has a volume pot on it it doesn't fill me with confidence. I come from an era when hifi meant separating signal from other circuitry as much as possible, especially power! So I wont ever be using blutooth, wifi or streaming, Only direct connections to the component making the signal.
It sounds like the dac's in affordable ranges are all pretty comparable, and the players are mostly archiving tools and controllers? I'd love to talk with someone who has built a few dacs to hear about their experiences and what is actually affecting the sound, and get some tips on building one from a sound card. Any thoughts on tablets? Thanks for all the info, You guys are saving my butt!
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I have been using iTunes for over 10 years and never had anything get scrambled, changed, or modified unless I did it myself. I have hundreds of CDs that I ripped 10 years ago and they are still the same as the day I ripped them. I never have to do anything with iTunes unless I rip a new CD. I can’t explain why you have this issue.
Good luck in whatever direction you go.
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you are asking a lot of questions (good, but real answers are complex and lengthy).
You got great input on Audirvahna and Roon. I use Roon.
This is a sacred cow, but IMO cables are vastly over rated and over priced - difference or not, the money can be better spent elsewhere. yes you need a quality cable, with good shielding and the proper impedance. And good dialectic material. pretty much full stop. I will now be crucified. I'm in good company.
DAC are HUGE. As noted, its a whole topic but DACs perform timing, decoding, its a preamp, its a filter, its a [power supply... and all matter. IMNSHO opinion a lot. Full disclosure i design this stuff for money (but its a side gig mostly for fun).
OTOH the law of diminishing returns is alive and well. You can get a DAC that will kick the crap out of your tablet/laptop/PC's internal DAC for $99 - and its Made in USA (Schiit modi 3). But step up to $500+ and you get substantially better. Can you spend $25K? yes. Should you? Well, is Porsche GT3RS a nice plaything? yes, it is. Is it the best cost/comfort/benefit trade off for an occasional blast through the twisties, or an occasional Autocross? Nope. But god bless you if the $250k is not enough to stop the purchase. get two and drop one off at my place.
Do some reading and listening. Go to Youtube and watch some stuff by Hans Beekhuysen. He's really good. Kooky like most hgih end audiophiles, myself included, but good. And he does not subscribe to magic, which endears him to me.
Enjoy. Happy to answer specific questions, but i avoid the endless opinion and flame wars that seem to occur regularly.
G
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iTunes/Apple Music isn’t noted for its audio quality. If you want a good sounding player but a crappy interface, look into audirvana. If you want the best interface and as good as anything out there for sq, get roon. You can run the server on a cheap pi computer or a small used Apple Mac mini, then use your iPad/iPhone to control the playback
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DAC = Digital to Analog Converter.
Yes, it’s the same as your SoundCard.
For the Player Software, try Logitech Media Server (LMS).
It’s FREE & excellent.
It’s browser based, so you can control it from your Tablet or PC.
For a small cost, get iPeng, which is a much nicer interface.
You say you have an external HDD. Is it a NAS? (Network Attached Storage).
Depending on the IT skills & your budget, you have a few options.
1) Buy a Raspberry Pi & install LMS & Squeezebox on it.
Pay the extra for a DAC HAT so you can connect directly to your Amp.
Or connect to your DAC if you already have one.
Attach your external HDD directly to the Pi.
Control from your iPad via LMS or iPeng.
Setting up LMS on a Pi needs some IT skills. More than I have.
If you can stretch to a NAS
2) Buy a NAS & put all your music on there.
LMS comes Free to download onto the NAS.
Modern NAS will play the files too, so can be connected directly to a DAC.
Control from iPad.
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A solution that might work for you is:
1) Roon Nucleus or Nucleus+ depending on how many zones you have
and
2) Synology DS918+ (you could go with a lower spec'd Synology depending on how much music you have)
3) Tidal or Qobuz for music
You will be able to control everything from your iPad as you requested.
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I agree with many others, dacs make a difference. An easy solution if you are ok with using your computer as player is to get a usb dac. The Dragonfly Black, Red and Cobalt are all good. By the Cobalt if you can afford it. IFi also has a number of dacs.
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Just a suggestion trying out foobar 2000 with mote monkey as remote from iPhone. It’s completely free. I had switched from iTunes to foobar to me I felt its better. |
someone said: "iTunes/Apple Music isn’t noted for its audio quality."
Incorrect! Itunes on a mac mini is one of the best playback platforms, assuming you are playing HD or FLAC (ALAC) files. Couple it with BitPerfect ($10) and you have a terrific (sounding) solution. Unfortunately, its cataloging is pretty useless especialyl for complec Classical.
Even Paul, the owner of PS audio, admits that rather than use his own megabuck transport or streamer at home, he often uses a mac mini with Bitperfect.
I did this (on a laptop, not a mini) for about a year until i wanted to throw itunes out the window - but not for sound reasons.
I now use Roon.
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Why would anyone ever listen to iTunes in the first place. Try Tidal Hi Fi and hear MQA. Worth the $20/month. Hi res makes a huge difference. |
Larry - i think maybe you are confusing itunes ( an app) with music formats? if you are clear on the difference, please make it clear - not everyone will take the correct learning from simple statements. You can play HD in iTunes/bitperfect - the decoding occurs in the DAC. For those who don;t know how to play HD on iTunes - either use bitperfect (strongly suggested by me and all of $10) or rad this: https://www.pooraudiophile.com/2016/02/how-to-play-high-resolution-audio-with-apple-itunes.htmlAs to MQA MQA- no. It does not support the first unfold to the best of my knowledge. But I’ll also debate the value of MQA on most recordings. And in fact I’m listing to Tidal based MQA right now as I type, and have compared it to my own FLACs of the same masterings. note that FLAC and ALAC are the same except one is big-endian and the other little-endian. note I am not getting the 2nd unfold because none of my DACs contain the licensed MQA chip. You didn’t mention what DAC you are using and whether yours does. Note also that the DACs that do support MQA in the hardware are not among my fav’s at their price points -- so this is a trade off too. Now back to the original question - you can get very good performance up to CD quality out of iTunes with bitperfect (necessary for the best performance). As to why you would want to? Well, i don’t. Its cataloging is terrible for classical, and it has real issues with multiple versions of ANY album. And its interface is simplistic. But fundamental sound is not its weakness. Now this brings up a good point about files - you certainly want to avoid MP3 for the best quality - even at 320 kbps they are quite lossy. Sometimes euphonically so tho.... As to HD in general (24/96+) - this is a can of worms. Its probably necessary for the studio where a) levels may be mis-set and b) post processing will be done. In the final playback - its at best a 2nd order issue. Great masterings of 16/44 can be superb. Ive noted many such recordings in he past (and many are 50 years old by the way). And crap recordings (listening to velvet underground in MQA at the moment) cannot be saved by HD. they just suck. I think that roon and audirvahna are good suggestions. G update - i see that Roon now supports both unfolds, or so it seems, so I may be GTG simply by updating settings for each DAC device/endpoint. I'll report back. |
I gave up on using LMS and my SBT a few months ago for Roon plus a Nucleus. LMS became to buggy despite all the folks attempting to update the software ( on their own ) for years. Couldn’t be happier. |
ok, can;t edit my earlier post. Roon does NOT support unfold #2, despite some exciting, but misleading, wording. Too much to hope for. Gotta buy Bob's chip.
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Nice, thanks, definitely getting some real info now that's helping me understand what I'm getting into. itsjustme and djones51, I really appreciate the tehnical info and understanding, its great to have the advice of someone who has really invested time and energy in these things, so that i don't have to!Checked out audirvana and roon, i'm not about to spend $700 on software, you could get a lot of great records for that or a new preamp, or a lot of good beer, or a motorcycle! Maybe audirvana, anyone tried doing listening tests on the same system with these different players. Any players with notable cataloguing issues i should watch out for?
Those specs on the dacs are great, it really looks like there's plenty of dacs on the low price end that perform comparably to the best of them, i'm sure there are other factors as well...I'd definitely like to hear more peoples experience trying and actually testing different players, what they think is best and why. I can't keep using itunes because of the cataloguing issues. Thanks for all the info, please keep it coming.
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Oh yeah, maybe I didn't make it clear enough but i don't listen to streaming music or listen to music wirelessly in multiple rooms or at all. I'm not looking for any devices designed to do this or streaming services, definitely not looking for home entertainment gear, this is for a stereo.Lms is for streaming your music to your devices right? Would I use it just as a player? Any differences in sound quality between foobar and audirvana? Between audirvana and itunes with bitperfect?
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Also I was thinking of the tablet for navigation purposes. Isn't it difficult to navigate a library with hundreds or thousands of albums on a phone screen? Or no?
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