Having had both the silver and the copper Eichmann's, I can only say that I liked the copper better. I tend to veer a little to the warm in my tastes and, while neither sound harsh, the copper is just a little more musical and comfy to my ears.... |
Well there are a 100+ hours on this cable right now. I am very pleased with the results so far. As others have said there is excellent layering and increased air. There is a natural feel to the music, especially with cymbals and vocals. At first the bass was a bit bloated and the imaging a little off, but these pieces have snapped into place over the last dew days.
Steve is a great guy to work with and at the auction prices the Extremes are a great deal. I haven't done any comparisons yet to other cables, but will do so over the next few weeks.
BTW - mine came with copper Eichmann plugs. Is this standard? I believe I like the copper version better than the silver. |
great, bob. thanks. i think i'll give them a ride....any reason for the extreme on power and revelation on source or did it just fall that way and stay put? i really like my mlt's and kept them in favor of the extremes, but it was closecloseclose and i stayed with the familiar. however, the idea of one cable throughout an entire system definitely has a core attraction to me. slow and steady, smell the coffee, enjoy the tunes and savor every step because you only get to it at that time once...well, i try anyway, but frenetic has a gravity all its own! might have to revisit the s/c's afterall. man, this is fun! best, art |
Hi Art,
Yes I am using an Extreme on my amp and a Revelation on my CDP.
If you like what the other cables Steve makes you will enjoy these.
They just add more to the overall formula that Steve designs and I have had many PC's but these work so very well.
I have the Revelation interconnect and my audiophool cousin came over with his Revelation true shotgun speaker cables(traveled over an hour to bring them).
Needless to say I am getting the Revelation speaker cables made to replace my Extremes.
I did have the Indra's as interconnects and MLT speaker cables before I found the GG cabling and in my system I prefer what I have now and I really did love the Indra's.
As we all know it is what works for each person and their tastes and systems.I think my cousin finally likes what Logans can do as he is a diehard Maggie fan :^).
My Best,Bob |
yeah, there are several issues with the eichmann's, but they sure sound good when you can use them properly...the other main issue being it's pretty difficult to solder onto the small pin and pot for the two leads and the ground pin is a little lacking in stability since it's so T-iny.... |
John, many thanks for your opinions, I hear you completely. Seems we share the same philosophy when it comes to live ambience. :)
Art, aha! Now that makes sense to me, I've heard some people have had issues with the Eichmanns but the thought never did occur to me. It was pretty crowded in the shop, I didn't get a good look at the back of the preamp, might not have fit snugly enough. I'll make sure to pay attention to this when I receive my own gear. Thanks! |
john-can't wait to hear your impressions of the gg's!
I have also had the rsad poiema!! (maybe there was a third '!'?) and found them to be neutral, detailed and quiet but a little sterile or cold and while accurate sort of boring in the end. of course, they were good enough for me to have two pairs and the pc's in my system before i moved on.....i had the same experience with argent pursang s's....i kind of remember thinking they both seemed wierd since they are silver based, but that's my memory of them.
osgorth-
i had a similar experience with the gg's and discovered that it was a grounding issue with the eichmann termination design. check to be sure that the grounding nubbin on the rim of the rca termination seats well against it's receptacle. my cary 306/200 and aes ae3 djh sig outputs both have receptacles that are too long for the eichmann's to ground properly. the oringinal silver gelco's that steve used didn't have that requirement....if that is the issue, i can steer you to where to get the gelco's anyway.
clio09-
the gg's are indeed not shielded. i haven't had any issue with rfi or other interference. i actually often find shielded cables...if they use a single lead with one end connected as a float for shielding...can act as antennaes and end up noisier. other types of shielding like the space dust and or metal beads (shunyata, sonoran audio) and other protective layering work better for me.
bobf-
are you also using the gg p/c's?
all-
enjoy the tunes!
best, art |
Thanks John, you've clarified things for me. I have a better idea of where you're coming from and I do agree with you on some of your points. The VD interconnects are a different animal in my system than then PCs. In fact I think I prefer the VD PCs more so than the interconnects at this point. The interconnects are great, but they do lack that live ambience which is something I notice in spades with RSAD Poemia!!!
BTW - since I now use a TVC I moved the Z-der block to the transport and use it with a Nite II PC. I have the Master on my DAC and am thinking of getting a Z-der block for it.
On another note. I received my Gold Extreme cables today and put them in the system. They replaced the RSAD Poemia!!! between my DAC and preamp. For the time being I'll let the VD Master stay between the preamp and amp. I am using VD Master speaker cables as well. I listened to a couple of CDs and had to turn down the volume. It wouldn't be fair to comment further at this point until the cables have settled in a bit and have a 100 hours or so on them. |
Clio09, it is hard for me to elaborate, as I'm not a professional reviewer, but I will try. To my ears, in my system, the cables/cords that I've owned from Stealth, Jade Audio and PAD present a more natural, realistic instrumental colors and hues, as I've mentioned above. By this I mean that instruments natural decay resonation seems to come through better. I've demo'd VD Revelation speaker cables, and I still own Revelation and Master power cords, so I'm not slamming VD, they do have their positive attributes, as I've already mentioned.
IMHO, the VD's dynamic sound is attributed to it's incredible speed of the attack on the note that's played, however, the decay of the note is truncated. I hear more natural decay of the notes resonating on the aforementioned Jade, Stealth and PAD cables. As I tried to explain it to a friend of mine, when using the VD cables, the pluck of a guitar string sounds clearer, however with the Stealth, Jade, PAD, I can better hear the wooden body of the guitar resonating as well.
To my ears, this is most notable with brass instruments, horns and even cymbals. The natural shimmer that I associate with live sound just sounds more realistic when the note is allowed to decay in it's own space. I don't know if this explaination helps you out or confuses you more. Again, it's not easy for me to put what I hear into words. Also, I do understand that others have different tastes. Some may call my preference for hearing natural decay resonation a 'euphonic coloration'. So be it. Just like the tube vs. SS debate, this issue will have it's own proponants.
Now I'm not trying to rile up the VD zealots, as I mention they do have many positive attributes. I even still own some, and I'm trying to find a proper place for them. Somewhere where they will deliver the added dynamic power, w/o losing the 3-D stage and natural decay that I prefer.
I note in a previous thread that you had a RSAD Z-der block on your preamp with a VD Master attached. I currently have a VD Revelation p/c going through a Z-der block into my preamp. It sounds better than the RSAD Alethias! Signature cord that I had on the preamp before the Revelation. I haven't tried the Stealth Dream here yet though.
FWIW, I used to own RSAD Poiema!!! and Poiema!! Signature interconnects and speaker cables. Very nice cables, though I don't own them anymore. I do still own a pair of RSAD Poiema!!! Signature power cords along with the one Alethias! Signature power cord (and many others).
Also, just to get back on topic, I did order a pair of Gabriel Revelation speaker cables today. I will report back some time in the future with my impressions.
Cheers,
John |
John, I do agree the VD cables are more power, dynamic, and the presentation is more forward. However, can you elaborate on the comment regarding natural sounding instrumental colors and hues. Any specific examples you can cite.
On a side note. I decided to also include a couple other cables in the comparison. Namely the Oritek X-2 and Ridge Street Audio Poemia!!!. I tend to rotate these cables in and out of my system for variety purposes.
I'd also like to ask a question regarding shielding and noise. My understanding is that the Gabriel Gold Extremes are not shielded. Has anyome who used the cable had any issue with RFI or noise as a result of the lack of shielding. |
I haven't heard any Gabriel's yet, however, from reading the threads it would seem they are more comparable to the Jade and Stealth cables than to the Virtual Dynamics. I've owned Stealth, Jade and Virtual Dynamics, amongst many others. The Virtual Dynamics will sound more powerful and dynamic than the Stealth or Jade, but they are also have a more forward presentation that I did not care for. The VD cables also had less of a three dimensional stage, and didn't present the natural sounding instrumental colors and hues that I get from Jade, Stealth, and PAD cables.
This of course is all just my opinion. I do know many VD fans who love that forward, dynamic and powerful sound. They love the excitement of that front row presentation. So it's all depending on your musical tastes. I would say that Virtual Dynamics is in an entirely different camp than Jade, Stealth PAD and from what I've read, the Gabriel's as well. Which camp you wish to be in is your call.
John |
I didn't mean to insinuate that Steve is letting the customer set the price. He has his standard prices on his standard lengths. He doesn't have pricing on non-standard lengths though. That's why when I e-mailed him to ask what a 1 meter pair of Revelation speaker cables (monoblock amps) would cost, he e-mailed me back and told me he hadn't made a 1 meter pair yet. He then asked me "Did you have a price in mind?". I replied with my thoughts. Then he told me he would think about my offer and get back to me. That was on 4/13, as of 4/16, I haven't heard back from him though.
So I didn't mean to infere that the customer was setting the price. I did find it very strange though for a manufacturer to ask me how much I was willing to pay though. That was a first, for me anyway.
John |
I've heard some good things about Virtual Dynamics and Jade.Some interesting comparisons are sure to come in the future it seems |
That should be an interesting a-b considering the differences in price,etc |
Bobf, yeah, I will certainly check this once I get my new rig delivered.. I told Steve too, I can't believe what I was hearing, it was nothing like what I experience with my headphones. I'll report back once the stuff gets here!
Did anybody try the GG speaker cables by the way? Power cables? |
osgorth-check out the post by budburma on 4/14/07 I think he's tried even more cables than me!Something must have been wrong with 1 of the components or something to achieve a result like you stated with the big rig?I've been communicating with a few members who have the GG's and one of the biggest strengths besides the sound seems to be their synergy with everything there hooked up with.The results you're hearing with the headphone rig is what you should have heard in the big rig system.I just had a friend over yesterday to listen to my all GG system and he was floored.Miles Davis was over having a beer with us or at least he was there in the room |
I will be comparing the Extremes to Virtual Dynamics Master ICs. |
I bought a GG Revelation IC for my headphone rig (CD->headphone amp, RCA) and I've been very pleased with the results. Steve was very helpful both before and after the sale, I felt completely safe all the way!
I haven't had too expensive cabling in this rig before, so it's hard to compare with the top stuff out there at this point. It clearly beats anything I've thrown at it so far, but mind you those are all cheaper cables. The sound I'm getting is best described as natural, open, very detailed and somewhat warm and seducive. Don't think it's murky and muddy, quite the opposite.. Very crisp and clear, but still a bit of warmth to it! Listening fatigue doesn't exist at all, I can listen to this rig all days long without tiring.
I ran into a weird situation when briefly testing the IC on a very high end rig that I've so far been unable to explain. Put simply, it was awful. It could just be that it needed to settle for a couple of hours, or it could be something else (hardware failure, severe mismatch with something else - I don't know). I'll be getting my long-awaited big rig in the few coming weeks and I intend to further explore the GGs then. :)
Nobody mentioned they look great by the way, hehe.. Get them in the black jacket with gold stripes on, that looks great! They're also very easy to handle: flexible and extremely light. They weigh practically nothing! I was quite surprised by that to be honest.
As for burn-in, I noticed marked improvements after a few days of continous play, so I'd say 75-100 hours before you do any critical listening. Still now, after 500+ hours, I think it sounds better than it did in the first week, so it continues to improve.
Did anybody compare to Virtual Dynamics or Synergistic Research cables..? |
darealjaydee-right on! the gg's are fairly priced and steve is as helpful as he can possibly be, but he does (of course) have set prices. i was making a bit of joke by referring to that as another 'astral plane' and hope it wasn't taken poorly.
Rx8man....kci? i'll have to take a look! thanks! |
Budburma,
I would say that the cryoing I did made little or no difference. Again, I bought the cables as an experiment so I did the cryo thing. I checked with Steve to make sure that cryoing was OK from a damage stand point. He suggested that additional treatment probably wouldn't make much difference and he was right. |
regarding the pricing.I myself really appreciate that Steve
tries to work with members if possible.I know he has set pricing on standard lengths and that the auction prices vary,but after I got 1 pair of GG's on auction and wanted speaker wire Steve tried his best to work with me.I've dealt with Steve enough to know that he works with people and is more than fair.I don't believe he let's customers set the price.
Maybe he may ask "what I have in mind " to gauge my budget or needs.How hany other places can you get a product of this quality from some one who actually cares and tries to help.I myself hope that he continues to auction and works with folks instead of having the cables go into mass production with price increases.
This is just my opinion |
Buburma,
The other two are Jade Hybrids and KCI Au Pur79. |
hey now, a rainy sunday and the terminals were humming@a-gon. steve is exceptionally easy to work with, but letting the customer set the price is on a different astral plane!
rja-the gg's wire is already cryo'ed, did the aftermarket cryo treatment make a difference?
pat-what are the other two gold cables? i have heard and compared the analysis plus and still own the gabriels. jade audio (thanks, john) looks interesting...i really do like amalgams though....
anyone tried steve's pc's? |
jmcgrogan-I looked at the ad again, there is only reference to 8ft lengths in speaker wire pricing.There is pricing on bi-wire though.I know from experience that some manufacturers don't like making short runs.I got a 6ft pair of Gabriel Gold Revelations and it was not a problem. |
Darealjaydee, thanks, I've seen that ad. However, it only has a price for a standard 8 foot single wire pair. It does not address prices for bi-wire or longer/shorter lengths. Anyone looking for anything other than a 8 foot single wire pair will need to contact Steve. Like I said, I'm not sure even Steve knows the prices of non-standard lengths. That may be why he asked me how much I wanted to pay. :)
John |
Budburma,
I actually broke mine in twice, originally when I purchased them and then after double cryoing by Cryogenics International. Also, my pair are balanced, don't know whether that has any bearing. |
Pat, I await to hear about your impressions.
John |
jmcgrogan-I believe your pricing question may somewhat be addressed in an ad running in conjuction with the present auction. |
John and I go back to the prehistoric days when power cords were still in their infancy, talk about reunions !!
There will be three sets of gold interconnects compared in my system within the next month, the Gabriel Revelations mentioned here and two others, should prove an interesting journey. |
Hey Gary,
LOL, this is turning into some kind of a reunion here, running into Art and yourself in the same thread. So I'm your cable guy, huh Gary? I've been told that I resemble that Jim Carrey character at times. :)
Actually Pat (Rx8man) first told me about the Gabriel, and he hasn't even heard them yet. I did e-mail Steve off-line and asked him about pricing for a custom pair of Revelation speaker cables. In his reply, he asked me what kind of terminations and how much I wanted to pay. I thought this was a bit odd, but I replied anyway. He told me he'd consider it and get back to me. Granted, that's not your typical cable company operating procedures, but I can't help but think that maybe these are not typical cables. There certainly is a lot of buzz, though I do admit to some trepidation, as I've never heard 'alloy' cables before. I've heard pure copper, silver and gold, silver clad copper and gold clad silver, but never alloys.
I would recommend you just e-mail Steve, tell him what you are looking for, and see what he says. There doesn't appear to be any set price list anywhere.
Art and Rja, thanks for the break in estimates.
Cheers,
John |
Okay.....I have now read all of your reviews on these cables...and if my cable man John McGrogan2 is looking into these then....my ears are open. I have been searching for a pair of 3m bired wired speaker cables to match my Rowland - Avalon set up for the past two years and nothing has interested me. Some of the prices are just plain insane.....so guys any idea what stev would charge for his cables ? ....and has anybody got his speaker cables ???? |
your right, rja, 200 hours is more than you need, but 40 may be a little short for a full break in. but, it's one of those last few percent/rate of return curve things...... |
excellent, geojap! i look forward to hearing what you hear! also, fwiw, your house remodel is an amzing testimony to how far we all can go to get the thing we're looking for. congrats, and rock on! |
you would likely bd beter off doing your own comparison and letting =us all know your results. Budburma, I agree with you. That is going to be what happens, I think. |
geojap-i could extend my list of cables i have owned to another 10 or 15 pretty easily, all of which have been replaced with the gg esxtremes. granted, most of them not head to head comparison, but a fair number of the higher end ones were a/b'ed. you would likely bd beter off doing your own comparison and letting =us all know your results...enjoy the journey!
john-no worries. we have exchanged some cable and gear a couple of times and i think our aural tastes are sort of similar. i think it would be worth you while to sell off some power cords and try some of steve's ic's. it would great to hear your impressions.
anyway, right out of the box is damn good, but after a 200 hours or so, you'l be even more inpressed. i really don't think i have anything to add to the description taken in toto given by bobf and darealjaydee and myself. i do have a little jones for the revelations..... as oscar wilde sez, 'i can resist anything except temptation itself!'
best, art |
Jmcgrogan,
My experience with the Gabriels is that they don't require the long break-in periods of some other ICs out there. Maybe 40 hours or even less compared to 100-200 hours that many other cables require. Perhaps other owners will post their break-in experience with these cables. |
I would like to know if anyone can compare and contrast the new Synergistic Research Telsa cables to the Gabriel Golds. They both seem to be very solid and I'm wondering if the GGs will actually better the generally more expensive Teslas, which have also been acknowledged to be an exceptional value at their price point. |
Hello Art,
WOW! Thank you so much for that very detailed reply. You defintely have wet my whistle. I will certainly have to investigate these cables further now. I've already been in contact with Steve about a pair of speaker cables. I'll probably look to try some interconnects now as well. Currently I'm using Jade Audio Gold and Vermeil interconnects and PAD Dominus speaker cable. To many power cords to even start mentioning, but the Stealth Dream is my current favorite.
I'm just about tapped out from several equipment and cable upgrades over the last few months, but these cables certainly sound intriguing. I wish Steve had a website, so there was a little more clarification on his cable design, hierachy and pricing. I will have to sell some of my extra cables/cords and scrap up the dough to try some of these babies. They do sound like my cup of tea.
One last question, about burn-in. Do they sound great right out of the box, or do they take a couple hundred hours to burn in? Thanks again Art, and happy listening.
Cheers,
John |
Hi John-good to hear your east coast voice up and at 'em. To my ear and in my experience, the Gabriel Golds are the best cable on the market. I realize that's a bold statement, but I have had them in my system for a couple of years and have no intention of ever changing them. They are the most accurate, neutral, and perfectly paced cables I have heard. The extension and detail offered are absolutely grainless and full at the same time; this is, in my opinion, their strongest suit, although I can find no faults in any area. The bible black silence of the background is adorned with an accurately portrayed soundstage with mesmerizing 3-d characters....this fully rounded image is another of their strong suits.
I have the Extreme's and have not heard the Revelations. If I wax and gush it's because....well. I wax and gush over them; they are what I have been looking for in an interconnect for 15 years. They give me a goofy grin just thinking about them and they are the only part of my system I never consider changing in all of my ever curious and obsessive participation in the madness that is this hobby. Prior to having them in my system it seemed I was always trying to make up for a shortcoming in one cable with a different cable in another position in the chain. The GG Extremes are now the only cable i have in my system (4 pairs).
I have found that I really appreciate the sound of amalgams over pure metals whether flying solo or in combo (i.e. a copper hot and a sliver return). When properly alchemied, the amalgams seem to offer all the best of the pure copper, carbon, silver or gold cables without their individual shortcomings. To that end, I have long been a fan of Siltech, especilaly with my amps of choice, Plinius. Other cables that i have had include Stealth PGS (_XL, _3D) and Metacarbons, Analysis Plus Solo Crystal and Golden Oval, all of the G3 Siltech incluing SQ88 and FTM4sg, all manner of Cardas. Harmonic Tech, Acoutic Zen, DH Labs, Empirical Audio, Discovery, Zu Cable..anyway, those are the ones that I can recall without squinching my eyes and rubbing my templews with tiger balm or something like that.
As for the terminations as mentioned above, some of my equipment won't accept the Eichhmann's because the rca receptacles are just too deep and won't allow the terminations to ground properly. I have one pair with the copper Eichmann's, one with the previous silver Gelco's that you see on Audioquest and two pairs that I had reterminated with Bocchino B7's. The previous Gelco's were great and I wish the Eichmann's worked in all my equipment, because if Steve says they sound better, then they do. He has a great ear and, from what I understand, a great group of audiophile friend's and connaisseur's that rule by blind democracry with sonic sound tastings and testings.
Only the best of the changes survive and what has emerged is a tasty treat not only for the ear, but for the brain with an aural endorphin bonanza! There's magic in them there cables: that's it and that's that. Enjoy the tunes!
Best, Art |
I'm considering some of these cables now. Besides Bobf's saying he prefers them to the Stealth Indra, could anyone else share their experiences? What cables did you compare the GG to? What areas did the GG's exceed the other cables in?
TIA,
John |
Its easy to make conclusions about other cables but its a disservice to the designer and the folks who review this thread for 'authentic' info. To draw the following conclusion..."Based upon the desription of the performance the GB cables produce, as documented in this thread. I hear a "similiar" presentation from my own DIY cables made from the Gold Alloy wire that is available here on Audiogon".
I would suggest you participate in the auction and try one for yourself and do the comparisons then report back. Its the more sensible thing to do than drawing conclusions.
As for how it matches with a SET system, the GG fits an important requirement and that is speed without grain. This cable is quick has great PRAT and combine all this detail galore. An example, I played "the best of Mickey Hart" cut 7 Temple Caves and I could not believe the bass information. Its a real tease to hear not just the bass transient but the air and space as it resonates in the "room". SET's are not known for bass but the information is there and its wonderfull to experience. The Revelation IC is outstanding! I just ordered another pair.
|
First of all, I meant no insult. DIY cables does not imply amateur build quality. In fact, often DIY cables are of the highest quality. My reference to the use of the Eichman bullet plug was one of approval. As was the use of a "similiar" wire made by Audio Metallurgy. A wire that is of a gold plated alloy construction. I'm sure the GB are well made and sound good, and use a proprietary alloy wire. Based upon the desription of the performance the GB cables produce, as documented in this thread. I hear a "similiar" presentation from my own DIY cables made from the Gold Alloy wire that is available here on Audiogon. |
I have to agree.
The forum should be a positive format for members to share information.For someone to make assessments of a product whether it be a cable,component,etc without any personal experience,knowledge of,or even information supplied by another member is not called for.
"no soup for you" |
I love the forum for discussion,however,I am always bewildered when some who does not own,heard or seen a product in person always seems to have the keenest insight.
I own the GG's and would say that the build quality and sound of these cables rival if not surpass anything that I have heard in 30 years.Stealth Indra could be considered DIY along with Shunyata and many other meticulously hand built cables. |
In my opinion the Eichmann connector is one of,if not the best out there.It does not interfere with the cable.The less interaction the better.Some people will pay big dollars for audio jewelry that looks beefy and sounds like @#$%. |
Reb1208 -These cables are nothing like a DIY cable.
Have you seen them? or heard them?
The wire is nothing like the Audio Metallurgy wire and the internal design is quite complicated.
If you owned Stealth Indra,Nordost and Virtual then heard and seen these cables you would realize what a bargain they are.
Just muy opinion on the sound,however regarding build quality,design and material this is a fact
|
Has anyone had any experience using them in full-range systems combined with tube SET amps? |
What makes these cables different than a DIY pair that you can make yourself? Appears to be terminated with Eichman Bullet plugs and the signal wire Audio Metallurgy. I just don't understand the $$$ spent on these cables. |
After purchasing the Gabriel Gold Revelation through a recent auction I must say my expectations have more than been met.
I set some lofty sights for this cable based on what I have heard from others that have bought it.
Once these babies fully broke in I heard tonality like never before.
There is no exagerated bass here!
Complex drum passages.(Patricia Barber-Cafe Blue- track Nardis)
take on a sacry realism.Articulation,speed and seperation are incredible)
These cables are simply true to instrument character,voice and the recording.
The cables excell at layering and removing congestion by simply allowing each instrument to sound the way it should .It is hard to explain but every little musical detail comes through so easily that you find your self hearing things that you never heard before.
But not in an analytical way.
No concentrating on the recording to hear it.It just happens!
I think this is done because of the accurate reproduction of the instruments.I am still baffled(but who cares).I feel like I am listening to real music now.
Looking to get more.
These is no word for what the cables did for me.
I am stupidly happy. |
I own two pair of the original Gabiel Gold interconnects and was shocked at the transpariency of these IC's. They are an instant change for the better. Open, detailed and just plain musical. I recently ordered two pair of the Gabriel Gold Extreme's from Steve and will post my findings after they break in 100 hours or so. Steve is about the music as are the Gabriel Gold IC's. |
