Audiobuzz, once again I have to ask if you have any affiliation with GG. You seem to jump on Jafox pretty quickly, just like you jumped on me in the Jade thread. 4 of your 7 thread responses on record indicate promoting GG cables. So, is there financial gain here for you, or does someone else not liking your favorite cable bother you for some reason? You do understand that another's findings in no way invalidates a purchase you have made, don't you? It's not an insult if someone likes a different flavor of ice cream than you, is it? Would you get all testy like that at an ice cream parlor if someone said he liked a flavor better than your chosen flavor?
Relax, you are allowed to like the GG cables if you choose. However, don't try to waltz in the door and tarnish reputations of long standing members. I have always found Jafox's descriptions and recommendations to be spot on. My tastes run very similar to his. I also felt the GG Extreme interconnects to have a shallow soundstage. The GG Revelation speaker cables I tried had better depth, but had other soundstage anomilies. Yes, they were a 1 meter run, which I know burns your shorts, but Steve was more than willing to make them and sell them as his GG Revelation cables. So there has to be some accountability.
You really come off as having a serious ax to grind. I just can't figure out if it's for profit or just immaturity.
John |
Its interesting to hear an opinion which does not comply in general with the group. Its a positive point of view which clarifies the point that cables are system dependent and that there is no one holy grail. Remember how the Indra was held as the top cable on the hill at one time.
I have listened to another Hybrid gold/silver design and it was superb in my system. But the right attributes that the GG has won. The experience demonstrated that the current designs today are far ahead of the crop of designs from a few years ago and the cable of choice has more to do with our own bias set up at home. The cable and its designers are a secondary thought to the process.
|
Jafox, thanks for the additional comments. I only hope to one day have a listening room where I can spread my speakers a couple feet more apart. Perhaps when I move in a few months.
Are you using the Mongoose PC with the Haley? I purchased mine before this option was available. I use a Oyaide Tunami GPX and have no issues with it. |
Clio09 - Yes, I was kinda late with trying out the RS products. The Haley was a nice step forward in adding more clarity to the system. It impressed me so much I suggested to a couple friends to try it out. And they too were equally impressed.
Keep in mind that my comments on cables are relative to others that I have owned that excelled in the key areas important to me. One thing I find is that to get the top-most cables in these areas, I often have to sacrifice that last bit of detail and extension on the top. And this is one of the Hybrid vs. Indra issues for me. Both of these cables and the GG Rev. have very similar tonality, with the edge in my system going to the Indra for that last bit of coverage on the top. None of these cables ever exhibited a brightness or listener fatigue.
Concerning a recessed soundstage, I have the SoundLab A1's so that they are nearly 7 feet into the room. They are near the side walls but almost 10 feet apart center to center. I now have a lot more clarity going on behind the speakers vs. when the speakers were only 5 feet into the room. The row of 5 ASC tube traps placed behind the speakers last year was a major step forward in bringing on clarity to the mids and trebles as well. Next thing to try is some treatments on the ceiling.
Speaker positioning I find to be critical for image placement, but generally not in how decays are portrayed .... and this latter attribute was what I had issues with the GGs. I'm not much of an imaging fanatic but with the latest round of improvements, I have gained much here for free. |
Jafox, glad you like the Haley. I've had mine for about 2 years now. One of the better audio buys I have made.
The Jade Vermeil to me is a fine cable. It just lacked something at the top end that didn't make me want to replace my Oritek X-2 cables. I had always intended to try the gold version but never got around to it. Maybe sometime I will try the hybrid. JD is a great guy and I'm happy for his success with these cables. I think at times we all have to remember we hear differently, and our systems and listening environments are not identical. So it does not surprise me to hear your opinion which I can respect.
However, in my system the Revelation is a cable that does not present a flat sound stage. Could it be more 3-D? Maybe, then again my listening room could be better and that in and of itself could make for a more 3-D sound stage. I posted previously that a recessed sound stage could easily be the result of room acoustics or speaker positioning, just as easily as it could be from the cable. I'm not suggesting this is the case with Jafox, but it is certainly possible. |
Audiobuzz: Your concerns are fair and yet any conclusions you make are wrong. You can insinuate all that you wish. If you pay attention to some of my comments early on with the Jade Vermeil and Gold cables, you will see that I had some concerns with these. I, along with many other potential Jade customers, talked to JD (at Jade) about these, and this had much to do with the later Hybrid model.
The point of my post was that for quite some time, the claim was that 150 hours was the magic burn-in time for GG cables. And my experience indicated that there was no benefit here at all. NONE! I did not rely on any memories from days before; I simply returned to my reference cable at each point of the listening audition. What might happen at 300 hours, I have no experience. But to claim that any magic occurs from 0 to 150, at least in my system, well, it never occured. And in all honesty, Audiobuzz, I was quite disappointed.
To get a product for less $$ with greater performance is one thing I am constantly on the lookout for. One recent such experience was how significantly the Running Springs Haley PLC outperformed the Sound App Line Stage at 1/3 the cost.
Another point to my post was that in my system, the Indra was also far far ahead of the GG Rev. This was quite the opposite to Bob's experience. We clearly listen for very different attributes or the strengths/weakeness of our systems are very different.
After hearing the ARC SP-8 almost 25 years ago, I have chased decays and portrayal of space as my priorities in sonic attributes. I am very critical about any component's performance in these areas. And once I hear how a given product excels in these areas, giving up any of this is mighty tough.....essentially impossible. In my setup, the Jade Hybrid is the top performer, followed by the Indra and Purist Dominus. Perhaps one of these days I will drop in a Purist Anniv and do another shootout, but for now, the Jade Hybrid is my favorite....but it is not perfect.
I have no loyalties to any company, electronics, cable, speakers, etc. Anyone who has followed my ARC->BAT->Aesthetix, Magnepan->SoundLab, NBS->Purist->Jade/Stealth, etc., paths, can easily see that I continue on the road for music system refinement.
As for anyone trying to push any business to Jade, all you have to do is read the many posts by JD on his cables. He hides none of his design. They are yours for the making if you're a DIY kinda guy. Tell me any other cable manufacturer of this performance level where this exists.
So Audiobuzz, rather than use your imagination as to any of my motives to put JD up on a cliff-side mansion overlooking Monterey, I suggest you give the Hybrid a try and determine for yourself how it might perform in your system.
John
John |
as mom would say "Play nice or go in the house" |
"Perfect Cable" may be just be the best description
I've heard |
jafox perhaps all of your visits to the Jade household (see Jade thread)has you a little bias.Could your listening test possibly be done at the Jade household too?
With nothing but positive findings on these cables by others I do find your listening impression and that at your friends home far more than just puzzling. |
Soundstage,depth of field,height of stage,detail,bass and even greater tonality and textures which these cables are becoming famous for occur after the 300 hour mark. Wow! That pretty much covers it for a perfect cable. I went into the GG Revelations with huge expectations because of this thread. And right out of the box, they were severely flat compared to the Jade Hybrid. The Indra that I had been using (but loaned out to a friend during this audition) was never dimensionally flat. The Jade conveys depth greater than the Indra, but the Indra beautifully preserves the decays and harmonics of the piano ...... something completely lacking with the out-of-the-box GG Rev. How anyone can describe soundstage, height, depth, textures, etc., with the GG cables with zero hours is beyond me. I guess it comes down to the system for which the cables are evaluated. I described my findings with Steve who was baffled as nobody had ever before described these cables this way right out of the box. Hmmmm. He suggested I wait for 150 hours which I did, and again, the presentation was flat as can be. Thinking it was all in my head, I took the pair to a friend's home, and the first word out of his mouth? .... you guessed it: "FLAT"! I never told him anything about my findings ..... we simply dropped these in his system which was connected with Jade Hybrids at that time. So we can talk about all the improvements in bass and reduced treble brightness, but none of these issues did I experience with my previously mentioned components. There are always some balancing acts that we have to do with aligning tonalities, what is often refered to as "synergy", but there was nothing I could do to bring back the decays and harmonic overtones of piano and voice with the GG Rev's. Playing one set of strengths over another with various tube changes in the CAT and Aesthetix gear could not bring back the 3D that instantly returned upon going back to the Jade Hybrid. So even though I prefer the Jade Hybrid, the Indra is just a hair behind.....the GG Rev did not work out here at all. In all fairness, the Jade and Indra are $1000 more on the A'gon market. So as Bob writes about how far beyond the GG Extremes were over the Indra, and the Rev's at yet another level of performance, this was simply not the case in my system. Clio - it's interesting that you tried the Jade Vermeil and prefered the GG Rev. The Vermeil in my system has some issues with the reduction of portrayal of space, but not as severe as the GGs. For lower cost systems, a direct shootout between the Vermeil and Extreme would be of value. As for how a cable is changing overtime, it is hard for me to imagine how accurate such memories can be. I have heard my system sound significantly different from one night to another where no system changes occured. Without the ability to quickly swap in a reference (for me, the well burned-in Jade Hybrid), going by memories of how something sounded 2-3 days ago is a little too much of a leap in faith. I wish I had been told of the 300 hour mark instead of the 150. I likely would have held onto the GG Rev for one more week of burn-in to find out how they might fare. But in all honesty, with virtually no improvments at the 150 hour mark, it is highly unlikely a miracle was to occur after 150 more hours. Had I experienced some improvements along the way, I may have had a different view on the situation. For all the high praise that this is THE cable to beat all else, my experiences with the APL-Denon/Callisto/CAT/SoundLab setup resulted in a far different outcome. Thank goodness there are many products to choose from for our music system. John |
I took delivery of Extremes and Revelation interconnects a little over a week ago. I put the Revelations in a second system to burn in (without listening to them) and put the the Extremes in my main system to listen to while the Revelations burned in.
The Extremes replaced VD Master's in my main system and I fell in love with them right from start. After around 50 hours, I thought they were incredible, the best interconnects I've heard. I was amazed, and it got me even more anxious to replace them with the Revelations. After 150 hours on the Revelations, I replaced the Extremes....and I was at lost at what I was hearing. I could hear s liyylr more detail, body, and treble extension... but a smaller soundstage, less air around the instruments, a litte glaring, and more forward less musical presentation that made me not want to listen. I put Extremes back in for a sanity check and imediately the music drew me in and made me not want to stop listening.
I have them back in my second system burning in again. I hope this is just a burnin issue. But I'm puzzled because the Extremes, with 0 to 50 hours on them, sounded better than the Revelations with 150 hours on them. I hope this changes. |
It's strange.I am 100% sure about the brightness in the beginning.I mailed Steve about it.It was exactly like i wrote before.
From 0-300 hours the bass got deeper,with bigger punch,and simply more present overall.
High frequencies lost the "metallic hiss" that was there in the beginning.They got more natural.
Midrange was excellent at 0 hours,but also improved with time.
Dimensionality and harmonic structure improved greatly.The whole sound became more musical and coherent.
The biggest changes were from 220- 250 hours.
Soundstage is excellent now.But i haven't kept any record of how it changed as hours passed. |
Bobf wrote:
"clio09-I assume you must have some?
What cables did you compare the GG's against before you went with them?"
In my case, it was Nordost Red Dawn's and Synergistic Research Tesla Accelerators. I was amazed right away. There was some slight overall improvement for me after break in, but not much. They sounded incredible right when I got them and positioned configured them correctly between the right components. |
Bobf - I have two pairs of the GG Revelation. I posted a while back here on some of the cables I have directly compared them to including Oritek X-2 and RSAD Poiema!!!, as well as the Silver Reference II cable offered by Audiogon member quackfat.
Indirectly, I made some comments as to my preference for these cables over the Jade Vermeil and Virtual Dynamics Master. |
clio09-I assume you must have some?
What cables did you compare the GG's against before you went with them? |
"I've read a lot of Steve's feedback (sts) and many members love the sound of the Revelations right out of the box. I'm sure once they break in they must be gushing with greater appreciation."
Yep. |
Soundstage,depth of field,height of stage,detail,bass and even greater tonality and textures which these cables are becoming famous for occur after the 300 hour mark.As I initially stated when I started this thread I was comparing the GG Extremes to both the Stealth Indra and Siltech Forbes Lake which are both what I call pretty decent reference cables.I liked the Gabriel's better.The Revelations definately take longer to burn in but once they do LOOK OUT ! it becomes NO CONTEST.
I've read a lot of Steve's feedback (sts) and many members love the sound of the Revelations right out of the box.I'm sure once they break in they must be gushing with greater appreciation. |
The cables really take about 250-300 to fully break-in.
The cables do experience sonic changes at about 40/100 and 150,however at about 300 hours you have EUPHORIA What actually is changing from 150 to 300 hours? Are we talking tonality changes as in a more linear tonal response or simply a more extended frequency extremes, or .......... some other sonic attributes? There's a lot of discussion on tonality here. This was not much of an issue for me at 0 hours or at 155 hours. Tonality was nearly identical to the Jade Hybrid except for a little bit of bass shyness in the GG Rev. I too never heard any hint of brightness with the GG Rev when used between the Aesthetix Callisto, CAT JL-3 and APL Denon tube CDP products. What about dimensionality, decays, harmonic structures here? And I do not mean in absolute terms but relative to how the cables were from the start AND directly compared to other cables swapped in and out right then and there. I heard absolutely no improvement here from 0 to 150 hours. Are there any significant improvements in these areas at the 150-300 hours? And did anyone have a reference cable whose strengths excelled in these areas to compare back and forth with the GG Rev's during their burn-in process? |
audiobb- I concur that the cables do take a bit of time to break-in ,however,I never found them bright or to be light in the bass even in their infancy.I also concur easily the best cables I also ever owned. |
Hiernote you are right. 250-300 hours of burning-in is more like it. 150 is not even close. Steve confirmed it.
I just recently bought (1)3m pair and (2)1m pair of GG Revelation.I just tested a 1m pair connected to my work system - B W 602s3,Cambridge Audio 640v2,Audio Note DAC 2 Sig, and PC as transport.
At first i noticed improvements in timbre and vocals (midrange alltogether).Then i noticed brightness and lack of bass.
-After 10 hours, some bass appeared.
-After 50 hours, more bass,less bright.
-After 150 hours,the same improvement, in smaller quantity.
At 220 hours i tested them in three very different systems.
They won over other ICs, but i was NOT satisfied.
In my system, they performed worse than other IC (Ixos).
Ixos had much better bass and tonal balance.I though GG was only for vocal and jazz music.As a heavy metal listener (mainly) i was not very happy with my GG.
-At 230-240 hours,HUGE improvement.No more brightness,no more metalized treble, and bass appeared.Real bass.
After 330 hours i tested them in my system against Ixos again.This time Gabriel won clearly.Even bass was better with Gabriel,GG won by a big margin.
Now my GG Revelation is around 400 hours of playing time.I still feel improvement in bass area, but i am not sure if they are still getting better or i'm just more used to their sound.Now i really like these cables.
Anyway, this is the best IC cable i've heard so far.
I intend to keep these. |
I now have 250 hours on my newest Revelation. With both pairs of Revelations in the system I have noticed more space and airiness, combined with some of the best front-to-back layering my system has ever produced. Quite the 3-D and musical experience IMO. I'm completely happy with these cables. I just wish Steve's bi-wire speaker cables were more affordable as I could definitely envision a completely GG wired system. |
I believe Steve will be adjusting his burn-in time estimate
for the Gabriel Gold Revelations.
The cables really take about 250-300 to fully break-in.
The cables do experience sonic changes at about 40/100 and 150,however at about 300 hours you have EUPHORIA |
Yes, this is fun! 8-)
I have tried a couple of Don's cords. I find them to be very good values and extremely musical. Not the last word in resolution, and the heaviest and stiffest cords I've ever tried. Someday I will have to see if I can borrow some of the Synergetic Tesla cables though.
I don't really want to hijack this thread anymore from it's designed intent though, so I will leave it at that.
Cheers,
John |
Jmcgrogan2, thanks for the update and comments on your current auditions. Have you ever tried the DCCA power cords? I recently was doing the power cord demo circuit and stopped on DCCA. I just love them. Right now, I'm going through the Synergistic Telsa line of I/C's and speaker cables. Results are in one of my treads. I'm stopping my cable hunt here also...for now...
IsnÂ’t this sport fun! ;-) |
Hi Art,
Thanks for the well wishes, fortunately the family issues are not health related (knock wood). I'm sorry if I misled you.
Yes, I still have the Dream on my preamp as well as on my phono preamp and cd player. I think it makes the biggest difference on my preamp. I do know others that disagree, one gent currently swears it works best on his DAC, so who knows? Don't get me wrong, I do like it on my phono stage and cd player, but it didn't 'blow me away' like it did on my preamp.
FWIW, the PAD 20th Anniversary that I am comparing to my Dream is on my preamp, since they both have 20A IEC plugs, I can't really switch them around too much.
I didn't realize that Brian had come out with a MK 2 version of the HHG. How does it compare with the first one? Which Stealth cord do you have on your AES?
Cheers,
John |
Heya John-Is the Dream still on your pre or are you checking it out on other pieces? I have gotten both a BMI Hammerhead Gold MK1 and 2 and am listening up on different applications....my Cary CD 306/200 still loves the BMI's, but my AES pre seems to like Stealth. Go figure. Anyway, best regards and hope the family is ok or, at the very least, doing the best you can flying on the wings of love. |
06-27-07: Joeyboynj
Jmcgrogan2, Have you tried the new Tesla Acoustic Reference and Precision Reference cables yet? I would love to hear how they compare to PAD and Jade. No, I have not heard either of the two cables you mentioned yet. I cannot say that I have plans in the immediate future to do so either. I have other non-audio (re: family) issues that are tying up most of my free time and money at this time. I'll look into them, but probably won't get around to trying them for another 6 months or more. I am currently comparing power cords with what little listening time I do have. Right now I'm comparing the PAD 20th Anniversary p/c with my Stealth Dream p/c. Both are very, very good, though I have no conclusions at this time. Cheers, John |
I know many members think it is heresy to mix cables, but I'm still using my Synergistic Research Tesla and GG Revolutions in sequence and love it. The image, 3-D staging, tone, detail, upper and lower frequency extension is amazing.
I like both the cables, but they have slightly different qualities and complement each other very well in my system. The GG is a bit sweeter with better frequency extension, and the SR Teslas are more three dimensional. Both have excellent clarity and detail. |
Wow! I wrote that? I sound good on paper. Having written all that, I still stand by it....and hate tiger balm at the temples as it really burns the eyes... BUT, I will be upgradng the the Revelations anyway!. I can't resist the temptation forever and all the songs of praise sung on high in this thread finally pushed my button hard enough.
While I am at it, I think I should terminate the retermination question raised by my own meanderings. If I had read the Eichmann website more carefully and applied the hairdryer technique, I probably would've saved a thousand bucks or so and at least as many hours. But, i learned a lot and got to know some very interesting, engaging, knowledgeable and generous people along the way so I have no misgivings or regrets at all. And, I still have the Gabriel IC's which are another prize.
I have had Gabriel Extremes terminated by Steve with the original Jelco silver and both silver and gold/copper Eichmann Bullets. I have also had them reterminated professionally with the pricey Bocchino B3's. So, those represent the 'versions' in mind and above mentioned by John. I personally like the sound of both the Bocchino's and the copper Bullets a lot. And, while the down under group are obviously populated by extremists, in the end I fall into the 'less is more' camp and really prefer Steve's choice of the gold/copper Bullets. Interestingly, both of those terminations use plating techniques over copper that don't require or use a nickel base....I personally think that's a big deal offering a very large sonic advantage.
Back to the beef on the bone....the second pair Extremes I bought were silver Eichmann terminated and just didn't sound like i expected them to. The first Jelco terminated pair (standard issue at the time) I purchased had definitely raised the bar and I had already come to expect quite a bit. I decided it must be the Eichmann's not grounding properly....In the end, I didn't understand the design well or read their site thoroughly enough (as I mentioned earlier). I ended up reterminating with the Bocchino's and loved the sound! I reterminated them all with Bocchino's! Wow! Sounded amazing! Had to be the Bocchinos!
It was the Bocchinos...but WITH the Extremes. To be the complete and inquisitive audio junkie, I thought I should be able to compare the different termination and provide a complete review with solid a/b comparisons. So, reterminate one of the three to Jelco and buy one more with Eichmann gold/copper bullets....then compare contrast switch position.
In my system, to my ear, etc. silver is anathema.....even in small amounts plated onto terminations. In the end, all hail Steve's choice, the designer makes the best choice for his own cable. Surprise!
So, now I have all re-reterminated cables from Steve....I have put my ear and wallet out there to be counted and I stand by my experience. Now, I only have to sell the Extremes (now at about 37 inches in length...) to get some Revelations.
The madness is the fun. And I thin I may be approaching certifiable. I hope my recount was a fraction as enjoyable as the experience.
Peace! And, enjoy the tunes! |
Jmcgrogan2, Have you tried the new Tesla Acoustic Reference and Precision Reference cables yet? I would love to hear how they compare to PAD and Jade. |
I think member budburma's description of the sonic character of the Gabriel Golds was extracted directly from my brain. Respectfully here's his remarks if you missed them
" To my ear and in my experience, the Gabriel Golds are the best cable on the market. I realize that's a bold statement, but I have had them in my system for a couple of years and have no intention of ever changing them. They are the most accurate, neutral, and perfectly paced cables I have heard. The extension and detail offered are absolutely grainless and full at the same time; this is, in my opinion, their strongest suit, although I can find no faults in any area. The bible black silence of the background is adorned with an accurately portrayed soundstage with mesmerizing 3-d characters....this fully rounded image is another of their strong suits.
I have the Extreme's and have not heard the Revelations. If I wax and gush it's because....well. I wax and gush over them; they are what I have been looking for in an interconnect for 15 years. They give me a goofy grin just thinking about them and they are the only part of my system I never consider changing in all of my ever curious and obsessive participation in the madness that is this hobby. Prior to having them in my system it seemed I was always trying to make up for a shortcoming in one cable with a different cable in another position in the chain. The GG Extremes are now the only cable i have in my system (4 pairs).
I have found that I really appreciate the sound of amalgams over pure metals whether flying solo or in combo (i.e. a copper hot and a sliver return). When properly alchemied, the amalgams seem to offer all the best of the pure copper, carbon, silver or gold cables without their individual shortcomings. To that end, I have long been a fan of Siltech, especilaly with my amps of choice, Plinius. Other cables that i have had include Stealth PGS (_XL, _3D) and Metacarbons, Analysis Plus Solo Crystal and Golden Oval, all of the G3 Siltech incluing SQ88 and FTM4sg, all manner of Cardas. Harmonic Tech, Acoutic Zen, DH Labs, Empirical Audio, Discovery, Zu Cable..anyway, those are the ones that I can recall without squinching my eyes and rubbing my templews with tiger balm or something like that."
"There's magic in them there cables"
When you read Bud you've said it all(weiser)
|
I agree Bob there are far too many cables out there that are overly detailed with trumped up bass.That is why so many people switch out a component and then have to switch out a cable too.The one thing I noticed and seems to be fact is the synergy of the Gabriel Golds, they do the same thing in every system.They provide you with natural musical character.This sounds likes a simple task but it definately is the toughest thing to achieve from a cable. |
clio09- I know what mean about un-natural and enhanced detail.It's gets very fatigueing and at times down right annoying.
I did something similar,I started off with (2) Extremes then picked up one Revelation and eventually went to all Revelations.
I think you'll like the sonic improvement.If the Revelation never came out I'd still be listening to Extreme knowing that I had one of, if not the best IC money could buy. |
Last weekend I listened to the GG Revelation and Extreme combination. I ran the Revelation from DAC to preamp and the Extreme from preamp to amp. I was so impressed with this combination that I traded up and am getting another pair of Revelations which should arrive tomorrow. I will probably have another update in a couple of weeks.
On another note, the "mystery" cable and Revelation combo was excellent as well. In fact it was on par with the Revelation and Extreme combo. The "mystery" cable used from the DAC to the preamp added a little more bass slam to the mix. However, I did not like using two pairs of this cable in my system. A little too detailed for my tastes.
If anyone is interested in a cable that uses quality silver conductors in a minimalist design with Eichmann silver connectors contact Audiogon member quackfat (also known as someyoungdude on AA). While I call them the "mystery" cable I believe they are known as the Silver Reference II. These haven't hit the market yet but are available for trial at very fair prices. |
|
rja The interconnects have been out longer than the speaker wire and ac cords so there are probably not as many spaeker wire sets out there yet.Plus I don't think I've everseen the speaker wire or ac cords up for auction yet.
Hopefully there will be some in the future and maybe a deal or two for us. |
Yes, I've owned the Extremes and received my Revelations a couple of weeks ago. Now thinking about a speaker cable purchase. Seems there aren't as many out there as the ICs. But what I've heard about the speaker cables has been positive. |
rja sounds like you have some Gabriel interconnects already and appreciate what they do.By adding the GG speaker wire you will get even more harmonic structure and natural character not to mention speed,detail in the most natural way that I hate to even use the word detail.
Bass solidity and slam will be so accurate it's scary.
Another step towards making an electronic system sound closer to real music. |
Replaced Harnonic Tech and Van Den Hul cables and speaker wire in my system nearly 2 years ago with Gabriel Gold and have never looked back.Done nothing but listen and enjoy tunes ever since. |
After moving from the Stealth Indra to the Gabriel Gold Extreme to Gabriel Gold Revelation interconnect my next step was to give the Extreme speaker wire a shot.
The Stealth MLT bi-wire run I was using were working really well, and the system sounded well integrated.
I had the opportunity to AB the Extreme against the Stealth MLT set-up and I must admit it was close.
The MLTs may have had a little more slam ,however,the Extreme bettered the MLT in the areas of tone,depth and staging,immediately.
Upon further listening I noticed differences in the bottom octaves also
The MLTs had a consistent low frequency character,meaning almost every track took on a similar bass sound.
Again while listening to Demeola's "Kiss My Axe" with the Extremes it was "where did that come from"
Upon listening to the disc and hearing the various tracks I determined that even the bass was better with the GG's.
The fact is the bass just had to be there in the recording.
I started going thru all my disc that had percussion in them and it was easy to determine the difference .The difference being a constant yet inaccurate bottom end vs. a bottom end that shook my walls when the recording provided the info.
Disc after disc I was able to not only hear the improved harmonics but actually tell the the tracks that had more slam than others.I prefer this "if it not there I don't want to hear it"
I ended up selling the MLT's and eventually got a second pair of Extremes so that I may bi-wire with the Logans.
When the Revelation speaker wire came out I contacted Steve and he took back the Extremes for full credit against the Revelations.
My expectations were high and were quickly met.After about 100 hours of break in time my system reached yet another level.In short if you have Extreme or Revelation interconnects and love what they do like so many of us the speaker wire will just add a whole lot more of the same. |
Gentlemen,
How about a bit more feedback on the speaker cables. Thanks! |
Bobf, thanks for mentioning 'Kiss My Axe'. That was one of my favorite cds. It has been sitting in my cd library(5000) for years. Amazed that the recording is still outstanding. Awaiting my GG Revelation IC from Steve. |
bobf
thanks for starting the post it is one of the very reasons
I bid on some of the earlier Gabriel Gold auctions and I could not agree with you more.The Gabriels sound awesome like nothing that I have ever heard before.C'mon what's the secret component? |
It's good to know that there are cables out there that can
finally offer the type of 3 dimensionality as the Gabriel Golds.
I have a dedicated and treated room and have the luxury of speaker placement.Not everyone has such an option ,most have a limited amount of space for speaker placement.
Even with my room tweaked (and I know my room I grew up in this house and now own it)
I essentilly re-constructed a room for dedicated listening and have been using the room for over 30 years for hi-fi listening.So many systems have come in and out of my room over the years, with the speakers most recently being in the Martin Logan family(Prodigy's right now)
There have also been a countless amount of cables,speaker wire and sources that have graced my ears and that of my family.
With the most recent and most satisfying of sources being the Bluenote Stibbert(with Ediswan tubes)I also rely on my wife's ear who is a professional dance/music choreographer along with my son who has toured the world as a professional drummer with major bands ,so when we sit and listen to tunes it is quite the experience.
My amp/pre amplification has taken a 180 degree turn from the days of having $50,000 of Levinson gear.I like many other members have found that the big ticket components don't always produce music naturally,they at times put their sonic manufacturer/stamp on things.
I now use a great pre/power source that is truly astounding
(yet could easily start a whole new discussion of it's own so I'll keep that to myself.)
Getting back to the topic of depth and three dimensionality
in the room.I am a big Al DeMeola admirer and as we know he is all about layer after layer, after layer with images and instruments spinning left to right, up and down and in and
out.(give a listen to "Kiss My Axe"
All of this is done on the recording with speed,solidity
and precision.
I did not realize just how much speed,precision and layering until I started adding the Gabriel Golds nearly 2 years ago.
I also was able to pick up on the tonality of the music like never before.This to me is very important I can not handle homogonized tones that are detailed yet colorless.
I had an ejoyable experience with many cables over the years most recently with the Stealth Indra/MLT combo,Siltech Forbes Lake and countles others.I don't see my house,the room,my Logans,my Stibbert,My un-named pre/power unit and especially all the Gabriel Gold interconnects,speaker wire and ac cords going anywhere.
My quest seems to be over.
I am so pleased that this obscure little thread I started
quite some time ago has grown in such a positive way and has been graced by so many passionate,knowledgable and even
entertaining people. |
John,
I received the cables on 5/30 and they were being burned in for a few days (about 110 hours with signal running through them 24/7) until I had to leave town. I got back Thursday and I continued the process for the last two days so by my count that is about 150 hours. |
Clio09 - As recommended by the manufacturer, I hope you burn the cables in for 150 hours before sharing any final thoughts on the GG's. And I assume the 150 hours implies a signal going through the cables and not simply connected to two components. You have had the cables for a week now but how long have they been "burned in"?
I set my CDP on repeat and run this into the preamp through ICs when I burn them in during the day and night when not listening. A cable burn-in device may work here, but I assume that when a manufacturer states a certain number of hours, it refers to actual use of the cable. And thus, the CDP->Preamp cable burn-in process as described here works well.
Audiobuzz - I assure you that I was NOT mistaken when I refered to depth. I know all too well a recessed presentation. This typically refers to a significant suckout in the frequency response where one musician is far far distant from the rest of the performers. I have immediately dismissed some preamps, cables and more recently some tubes that exhibit this problem.
Last year I visited an audio dealer's home. He had Avalon speakers that were 8 or so feet out into the room. And he had recently gone through some serious efforts with room treatment devices. Never before had I heard speakers disappear like this. And never before had I heard a singer so far back from the speakers with such incredible realism. I understand that this is a key area where the Avalon speakers excel. And they certainly impressed me. But the overall system implementation had just as much to do with this success as well.
When I came back home, I could hear that I had greater decays and harmonic structure than that system, but I did not at all have the mentioned qualities here like he had. And this never left my mind.
I have since moved the SoundLab A1s another 2 feet into the room, gone through significant amounts of tube rolling with the Aesthetix and CAT gear(thanks to a tube guru friend who continues to send me box after box after box of tubes to try and often allows me to purchase the ones I like), revamped all power cords and recently incorporated a very special APL Denon CDP. Each of these changes brought on significant improvements in a number of areas. But it was only when I dropped in the Jade Hybrid ICs did my mind then return to that Avalon based system. Unlike before, musicians are now placed back from the speakers ... and they integrate so well with the rest of the musicians up near the front plane of the speakers.
Of course no cable does this on its own. But as I have noted before, I have heard a number of ICs (most notably from preamp to amp) so quickly destroy all the magic of a system up to that time.
John |
Bobf, I was away on business last week and have a trip this week as well. The cables have about 150 hours on them. They have been slowly opening up. I can see where they have taken the sound up a couple of notches from the Extreme. The soundstage is a bit wider and even taller than before, but most importantly is the better layering and increased space between the instruments. I imagine they will get a little better over the next 100 hours. I still have not tried them in conjunction with the Extremes. Right now they are between my TVC and amp. Eventually I'd like to move them to between the DAC and TVC, with the Extreme between the TVC and amp.
I do like these cables better than the Jade Vermeil I had. I also prefer them to the RSAD Poemia!!!, but I think the Revelation and Poemia!!! could also make a nice combination together. I have been taken by surprise by another set of "mystery" cables (of which I bought two pairs) that are currently between the DAC and TVC. In conjunction with the Revelation the sound is the best I have heard from my system in some time. After I compare this combination to the Revelation/Extreme I am also going to run the two "mystery" cables together as well. I'll post some more thoughts as things develop. |
clio09-what do you think of the Gabriel Gold Revelations?
Are they burnt in yet.Awaiting your thoughts against some of the other cables you've referred to.Don't mean to pressure you!!!!! |
Nice semantic to point out. Just to add, I can manipulate the central image or depth in several ways. One way is to move the speakers further apart and the second way is to remove or change the damping material at the back of the speaker. If you want depth, you can also manipulate that too by have a "recessed" back wall at the center in between the speakers.
So the depth factor may not be exclusively due to cable design. Good point Clio09.
|
Not to get into semantics here, but I am curious if recessed sound could come from room factors just as easily as it could come from a cable. |
