My take on the GTX Rhodium and GTX gold. I had both installed at the same time, burned them in with an Air conditioner, ran for 2
weeks straight under pretty much a full load (had them daisy chained and alternated both outlets. I made the mistake of using them directly out of the box in my music system, they sounded great for the 1st couple of hours, and then sound
went very treble focused to the point that I could not listen to music comfortably, if at all. After doing some extensive listening, I found Gold to be vey natural,
with great tonality, a deep unexaggerated soundstage that
was calmer than the Rhodium. The Rhodium outlet sounded etched,
with a cooler tonality,
with near zero mid bass bloom, and a stage that
was placed further away than the Gold. My main speakers are a pair of Magnepans running off monoblock amps. No tubes or anything else in the chain.... The Gold
won out for me quite easily, the Rhodium
was packed up and sent back to the vendor. Anyone claiming that outlets don't make a difference in sound, has obviously never listened to anything more than a 50 cent home depot one. The people screaming the loudest, are usually the laziest ones, harassing others that actually do the
work.
I agree that the long wait is ridiculous, but many people are willing to do that. I, on the other hand, put the outlets on my Audiodharm Cable Cooker and forgot about the (purposely) for 30 days. Installed them into my wall outlets and they sounded constantly good.
600 hours is an awfully long time. I believe time could be better spent doing other things than waiting for a receptacle to 'break-in' and sound like it's supposed to, to each his own.
Perhaps this opinion is not one that is going to be popular...but here it is..
IF you have to burn in something for 600 hours...for it to sound good, then I think something is very wrong. How can anyone remember exactly how something sounds from the past when that memory is now 600 hours old? I have an a’phile friend who owns a ARC preamp with the Teflon caps...tells me it takes up to 1500 hours to burn in and for it to sound good!! 1500 hours...that is several YEARS in many systems running time!!!
Personally, I think that it is possible that a component can sound good from the gitgo and get better as time goes by, BUT IF it sounds poor from the gitgo...and 600 hours later it does not...is this not perhaps an acceptance of the SQ from a psychological perspective after all of that time? Inquiring minds...
I own both gold and NCF if you have them pre burned in it will not help much with the long burnin process, I had mine pre burned in. The gold burns in faster. The NCF is a long bad ride at least 600 hours but worth it in the end. The gold highs are rolled off. I ran them in on my system, if I had to do it again I would definitely use the refrigerator.
Thanks for the suggestion, I asked Chris of VH Audio on whether I should get the Rhodium vs Gold, he suggested the gold since my Furutech power cord is terminated with FI-28 Gold. I like the warm and laid back presentation of the Gold. The only caveat is that it’s not the most detailed but I’m okay with that.
Thanks for this! I will look into buying a pre-cooked receptacle from Chris from VH Audio since I’ve purchased a couple of things from him already. I’m not a fan of a lengthy break in!
@chipdelacalzada, IMO the largest and best change you will hear is going to be with the Furutech GTX-D Gold receptacle. The receptacle, mounts, and plates will be a very minor improvement.
If you go back to page one I was the second person to respond to this thread. Remember: "Be aware of the extremely long break-in required for the Furutech GTX-D and R/G AC receptacles to settle in and sound good. 300 to 600 hours, but in my opinion well worth the wait. If possible use some other means to break them in other than installation in your audio system".
Also, the suggestion made by hdm: "Refrigerators and Chest Freezers are still the best home option for burning in receptacles. It has much more to do with the surge when the compressor kicks in, which will very often exceed 15 amps for a very short period of time. This will get you much better results than the continuous operation of an appliance that might draw 5 amps continuously. 2 weeks on each half of the receptacle should get you pretty good results. Something like the Audiodharma Cable Cooker will be even better; if you have a dealer that has one it is a no brainer to pay a few extra bucks to have them burned in before shipping".
Would like to revive this thread as I’m about to purchase a Furutech GTX-D Gold receptacle, with the wall mount and the carbon fiber plate it all adds up to almost $500. My question is how important is the wall mount and the plate? Has anyone experimented and used a generic mount and plate with good results?
It’s my first time to experiment with changing the receptacle so I want to tread carefully as it were. But if it’s really worth getting all 3 (receptacle, mount and plate) I could stretch my budget a bit.
I personally thought for a long time aftermarket receptacles were a waste. When I built my sound room, I used hospital grade hubbels. Friend told me about the Furutech GTX. I read the factory specs, pure copper, that made sense, and a industry first. Tried one. 500hrs latter replaced the other four. Just one was far from subtle. IMHO all connectors, wires, fuses,outlets, metal type and purity is a really big deal.
Many times changing components or cables, it could just be a change of sound not even improvement, on my experience it took two good mentors, and many many hrs of listening, before I was able to learn what is change or improvement, sound or music...iam so impatient to wait for the cable or component to settle, then I just jump into conclusion right away wow it's a good cable? When I rush most of the time Iam wrong.Then I realize reviewers take months before they write their reviews...I realize it's good to wait in this hobby....
I agree, in all audio forums there are always going to be those that voice their opinion without having used the product. Based on speculation or theory they state a thought they have and/or believe. Some time theory is correct and other times theory does not apply to a situation. You also make an excellent point, perhaps their equipment isn't as revealing as they think it is, or perhapes they don't have a good ear for music.
Old thread......but I will give my thoughts on this.
Some will say there is no change in sound. Some will say that without even experimenting and base the statements of a hunch.
When I rebuilt my last pair of speaker crossovers, I played the same CD for a week. When you hear a familiar track and there is a vast absence of bass, then a few days later the room is thumping....that’s not my imagination....but that’s only one confirmation.
One thing you need to understand about receptacles, is there is no screw tightening down on a copper wire, it’s merely the prong touching another prong under light spring tension.
I don’t think the Furutech receptacles make it better, I believe the cheap ones make it worse. The goal is to maintain signal purity, this starts with clean power.
So if you want to chime in and basically say it’s snake oil, perhaps you should try it first. Some systems aren’t as revealing, this can easily cloud judgement...but either way....walk the walk before you talk the talk.
Hope you are feeling better. I too am taking a long time to recover from back surgery. I do not know if you can really separate the Outlets from the dedicated lines. I agree that there is a quietness, a precision that the system obtains from a dedicated line and one of the decent outlets.
" Supercalifragicexpalodoious" Don't think I spelled it right. But I think most will get it.
No. A mighty transformation of the system; like fuses do; No. I have thermal magnetic breakers in my Pass amps. NOS telefunkens in my Steelhead phonostage brought just enough of tube magic to my system for me.
I don't know how many tweeks that I have tried over the years (a lot) but currently I am a happy guy with my current system. Just need to be able to get on a ladder to finish the ceiling treatments.
Thanks for your efforts Best Wishes on feeling better.
The nature of
memory, despite the best efforts of scientists, remains an elusive and
capricious entity. It would be difficult to follow the neurological progression
which leads one to subjective judgment. I’ve been ill, hospitalized, which has
broken the continuity in my listening for a qualitative assessment of the
Furutech AC outlets. Perhaps that is a good thing, obviating anticipatory
expectations. I will not attribute some higher level of aural performance to
the Furutech outlets; that would necessitate my concluding some mystical
transcendence resulted in changes in the ‘sound’ of my equipment. But I will
say that there is a difference in
other attributes that make up my listening experience. There is an elevated
preciseness/sharpness in what I would characterize as ‘the attack’ of notes -
more energy, thrust, silence. And
therein is what I believe is the improvement … the energy delivered to the
components that make up my system reacting to its life-blood, electricity. Music
is a non-conceptual language, beyond the range of men’s understanding. Some
try, others claim to know what a piece of music means or what it signifies. Men
only have poetic ideas of what a composer intended, no more. Likewise, I have
only an idea of what ‘changed’ with the installation of the Furutech AC
outlets; but change it did. Perhaps the electrical signal is purer causing the
spaces between notes to be more silent,
the vocalist’s breathe livelier, or
the striking of the drumhead sharper.
What I have concluded is an improvement in a manner
independent of the components themselves, or that’s what the neurological
progression leads to my subjective judgment … all the rest is silence.
nkonor - actually, I haven't - an unexpected death, yesterday, of a close friend occurred. I will, however, post my impressions 'to this forum' when personal matters settle ... "and all the rest is silence".
nkonor - but the 'shoot out' has yet to be conducted? I had no idea there was so much interest in AC outlets. It seems that there's been a great deal of effort into preparing for this 'shoot out', and an extraordinary amount of interest. geoffkait- Perhaps you could write a BAL app to conduct the 'shoot out'?
cleeds - I have been running everything through my P10. folkfreak - I will listen to hear if I can detect a degradation. There's so many different perspectives on all this power related subject. Both - thank you for your insights ...
@wylmars Firstly I trust by now you've learned to tale any advice you get on the internet with a pinch of salt 😏 and as @cleeds suggests you should try it for yourself, both into the P10 and into the wall.
My cavil with PS Audio regenerators is that basically they are power amps outputting clean 110V -- agreed the newer ones such as your P10 are efficient (rated 85% at peak continuous load of 1200W) but they are throwing away 15% or more energy than you need. Early ones like the original P300 (I at one point owned three) were <50% efficient and ran hot as hell.
However while the P10 is rated with enough power to drive your Ref 75 (peak load 500W) the consensus (and again you have to listen and see if you agree) is that Power amps in particular prefer a non current limited (i.e. more passive than active) power conditioning regimen, and in many cases sound best run straight from the wall. Sources (your Ref 5SE and Accuphase kit) will benefit most from the clean power the P10 provides
So to conclude -- try it all ways and see what sounds best to you -- that's all that matters
... I wish I had known that BEFORE I bought the PS Audio. I spoke to a
lot of people before I purchased P10 who whole-heartedly support the P10
... hmm! ...does the
P10 'wastefulness' also apply to the REF 5SE and Accuphase equipment?
Have I been restricting dynamics across the board?
I wouldn't dismiss your PS Audio power regenerator quite so quickly. There are many variables when it comes to AC power. In my system - with multiple dedicated 20A lines - nothing is plugged directly into the wall. That includes the ARC Ref5SE and everything else, including big tube and SS power amplifiers. Yes, I've tried plugging things into the wall directly. Yechhh. And nobody who has ever heard my system has ever thought that it lacked dynamics. Just the opposite!
folkfreak - I wish I had known that BEFORE I bought the PS Audio. I spoke to a lot of people before I purchased P10 who whole-heartedly support the P10 ... hmm!
I had the contractor install a dedicated (i.e., there is nothing on the circuit but my stereo equipment) 20 amp circuit, with its own circuit breaker. I will do as you suggest; plug directly into the wall ... into the new Furutech GTX-D (R) outlets that started this whole forum entry.
So, I will ask you, folkfreak, does the P10 'wastefulness' also apply to the REF 5SE and Accuphase equipment? Have I been restricting dynamics across the board?
Many find that power amps sound best plugged directly into the wall. In particular a regenerator such as your PS Audio is a pretty wasteful way to power a class A amp and may restrict dynamics.
Personally i I get good results with the Synergistic PowerCell 12UEF but to start with go direct to the wall and on a circuit that's not shared with any of your other components
I did see that warning. ARC seems to want the owner to connect their AMPs directly to the AC, and not use any power conditioner or regenerator. Is that due to the power requirements of their AMPs? I purchased a PS Audio P10 to protect my equipment from surges, brown-outs, sudden electrical malfunctions. I also put a full-house surge protection unit that shuts down the panel to my home. In any case, are there specific attributes I should look for (other than 12 awg) in a power cord for a REF 75SE?
Don’t worry. I and probably most other ARC owner on this forum have been using after market power cables for years and have no issues with warranty work. In fact most dealers demo these amps with after market cables. The dealer I bought from, Optimal Enchantment, always demos with AudioQuest for example
The cautionary language is just to avoid issues if you for example slap a 20A IEC on a 2 conductor lamp cord and then burn your house down!
and btw the warning on page 6 of the manual was more related to the second half of the sentence which you did not quote - the bit warning to always use a dedicated outlet and not a convenience or extension
Oh my, I failed to see that. Thank you, folkfreak. I would really like to try an alternative power cord just to compare. But the "sole risk of the owner" does have a chilling implication. I wonder if "sole risk of the owner" can be interpreted as 'if something goes awry in the amp and is determined to be caused by a non-ARC PC' that the warranty is void? I'm just wanting to be careful ... these toys are expensive. I wouldn't want to void any warranty I may have with ARC. That said, I've used ARC equipment for more than a quarter century without a problem.
@wylmars but surely you read the next page of the manual that states there's no problem using alternative power cords
to quote p7
Caution should be taken before using custom after- market power cords: they must be at least 12-gauge and have a standard grounding plug properly installed. These power cords are to be used with caution, at the sole risk of the owner.
Clarification (pg. 6, owner's manual): "it is important that the Reference 75 be connected via ITS SUPPLIED 20 amp IEC 12-gauge power receptacle". Continuing on with ARC US Warranty T&Cs, "the warranty is void and inapplicable if the product has been used or handled other than in accordance with the instructions in the owner's manual" (see pg 6 owner's manual excerpt, above)". My comment is not a fabricated claim, but a literal interpretation of the ARC owner's manual and warranty terms.
And the reason I ask about the power cords is that ARC (my amp/pre-amp) clearly states in the owner’s manual that substituting cords is a no-no; invalidates warranty T&Cs ...
If by ARC you are referring to Audio Research Corp., the manuals state no such thing. In fact, ARC posts its warranty terms right on its website, so I’m not sure why you fabricated this claim. http://www.audioresearch.com/en-us/company/warranty-statement
And the reason I ask about the power cords is that ARC (my amp/pre-amp) clearly states in the owner's manual that substituting cords is a no-no; invalidates warranty T&Cs. Why, I wonder? It begs the question regarding all cable connections to their equipment. I suppose power to the device with wire that is unsafe/harmful might be their reasoning. In any case, I would like to try a Nordost 20 amp PC. I've heard the ARC REF 75SE/5SE PCs are made by Cardas. Does anyone know the facts?
Don't fret; Power cords will just result in another breath of fire from the Dragons. You entered their lairs; no turning back. Use your dedicated electric sword and your ears.
nkonor - Yes, the Furutech GTX-D (R) AC outlets were professionally ($$$) installed yesterday. indeed, I have AC power to my system ... that's a start! I had no idea my simple question would result in 1879 (and counting) views and 73 posts. You warned me. Imagine what will happen if I decide the Furutech outlets aren't doing the job ... and I fire them! I must say I've had an interesting time reading everyone's posts and thank everyone for their comments. Now, I will attempt some critical listening. But now I wonder if the power cord will be a significant factor affecting AC transmission ... ???
jazzonthehudson As mentioned above, fuses impart a big signature. Again, it is trial and error. IME I find Audio Horizon’s Platinum Reference better than the SR Black, which is already very, very good. Furutech has great fuses as "entry level" ones but they wouldn’t combine well with fast systems. As you can see from my other comments, I tried full looms (Audience, HiDiamond, High Fidelity Cables, just to name the last iterations) but never settled long on one brand. Through ever-tweaking - not just power but room correction and isolation/resonance control I am pretty close to "there"."
Damage control! Damage control! That's the second aftermarket fuse that's been judged better than the SR Black fuse, the other being the Audio Magic Beeswax. Can this be happening?!
"I am pretty close to "there." That begs the question, how do you know when you are actually "there"?
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