I know I'm very late to this party/thread, but have to jump in. I appreciate everyone's efforts in trying to explain their different experiences and opinions with these two great speakers. It has helped me.
I just sold my Sashas (had them for ~18 months), and picked up some Scala (v1) here on A'gon.
If anyone is still interested, I'll share my thoughts when I get the Scalas.
Ancillaries:
Initially, I'll be powering with ARC (ref 3 to ref 75, non SE)
14x21x10(h) dedicated room. Transparent Ultra cables, Lumin T1 source.
I'm interested to see how the Ref 75 does. It couldn't quite control the Sasha's splashy highs. I did have a 150SE, which did better across most qualities than the 75, but lost a little charm and warmth.
Let's see how it does with the Scalas.
What do you use to for powering your Scalas? |
Its not boxing to different speakers!!!!HELLO!!!! |
avoid accuphase, go with vitus |
i take it back. the ktemas have such great resolution and imaging..... |
I just sold my Dunlavy SC IV's and ordered the Focal Scalas. Meanwhile, I've borrowed a pair of Ktemas, Franco Serblin's new floorstanders. I miss the big sound of the Dunlavy's. I hope the Scalas don't disappoint. I wanted a speaker with modern driver technology, but so far I kind of miss the big SC IV's. Am I crazy? |
kw13
The problem is not the speakers, or room acustics. The Problem is the combination of the dealer has set for you.
Avoid all Accuphase setup, plus Chord electronics which is a nice partner for KEF speakers but not for Focal.
Try a solid state like Krell, Ayre, Halcro, Pass. Combine with any universaly accepted a good preamp. For example, Krell will work good with Audio Research Ref preamps. For digital you may depend on dCS as I do.
I would not choose components from same brand, having used all together.
Regards
mert
(some people argue that Focal Scala with Naim electronics yields very interesting results sonicaly) |
Kw your diferencies on listneing the same model but diferent pair is quite diferent (too much for speaker as a system component I think) I assume you used the same jumper position? I would not consider Scala very hard to set up or critical to position placement.unless there is some BIG problems with room acoustic maybe something wrong with speakers technicaly? sometimes it just happens on assembling stage. anomality can be small enought to notice in general but big enought to spoil speaker abilities. |
Mert/Nolitan,
Went back again yesterday after 2 weeks burn in. Set up identical - accuphase sacd player with accuphase pre amp and monoblocs (I think 160W). Took same discs. A colleague also joined us.
Once again I was disappointed. Wife and friend didn't like it much either. Voice was certainly good and probably better than my home set up but fell far short of what I remember these speakers were capable of. Highs were also splendid. But bass was pedestrian, inarticulate.
We suspect something wrong elsewhere - cables or amps or both or room.
Will give these speakers one last go in 2 weeks. They will set Scala in a different room with BAT monoblocs. I hope to rediscover the sound that mesmerized 7 months ago, at that time with reference Chord electronics. |
I agree also that Focal and Accuphase has a nice synergy to them. Add Purist cabling to that system and it will be very heavenly. |
KW13
what I heard from some fellow audiophiles is there is a synergy between Focal and Accuphase. However, Together with nordost cables,(if it is a all valhalla)some might expect different sound.
As far as my setup concerned, I am not sure if it is burnt or not. But still I have been waiting for a few cables where will critic effect likely occur.(PAD Anniversary interconnect and PAD P.P. powercord. Even, there may take speaker cable change. Sometimes I think also change the poweramp but first I have settle the cable thing.It is between you and me, I also consider Accuphase M-6000 mono amps, Esoteric own class a amp, or maybe just Accuphase P-7100. We will see. But I am sure in a few weeks or days, I will see Focal Scalas full potential, I bet....
Regards
mert |
Mert,
Setup was:
Accuphase sacd player
Accuphase pre amp
Accuphase mono blocs (150w)
Nordost interconnects and SC |
Kw 13,
can you tell us how was the setup? electronics, cables? |
Listened to Scala yesterday. But only 50hrs use. Was not near the level we experienced previously. Sound lacked focus and background not very quiet.
For Scala owners, did you experience this during break in? |
I would wait to hear the sashas. My one time listen to them i found them to be on the bright side. |
"I do not see anything wrong(assuming they both know about each other) having good looking chick for fun, and good cooking wife for resting after the first :-)"
I don't see anything wrong with that either. In fact, I'd be willing to bet that's pretty much the dream for many of us. All I can say brother, is that if you can finesse a couple of ladies to go along with that knowingly, coaxing whatever sound that turns you on out of a stereo system should be a slight challenge. |
Well Phaelon, I do not see anything wrong(assuming they both know about each other) having good looking chick for fun, and good cooking wife for resting after the first :-)
same goes for the speakers (except fact that they do not nessesary need to know about each other, as i didnt find speakers very curiuos or jelous, just honest ones and liar ones) |
"actualy my preference is also to have exciting expierence when listening to music, but in the evening time i like to read a book or do some other activity where music should be as background- not to draw atention to it."
Elviukai,
Lol... Does this strike you as being even a little bit like asking a beautiful woman to look appealing only during romantic activities and not when you're trying to watch the news. I do see your point of view: too much of a good thing and all that; but really... |
Northstar,
In this country, not just mid size sedans sold for speaker money but there are speaker cables and interconnects sold for sedan price ticket. Sad but it is very likely to be true! |
Kw13> actualy my preference is also to have exciting expierence when listening to music, but in the evening time i like to read a book or do some other activity where music should be as background- not to draw atention to it. And Auditor M does this (except for the top octave - where its too "fresh" and too airy - i use tone control to atenuate high frequencies a bit)
as for maestro and grande EM-i sent email. |
Elviukai,
Thanks, that is a lot of air time you've had with these speakers. Sounds like you work in the industry to have priviliged with so many fine speakers. While I see what you mean, I don't quite agree. Personally when I listen to music I want to engage. For background listening I could use a radio or alarm clock. I have my SF Cremona M. I do like these speakers a great deal, but they are a little polite and do not pull me into the music as much as scala. But I know what you mean very well, since my wife similar taste to your night time preference.
Did you say that Maestro is superior to Grande in soundstage/mid-range balance?
Northstar,
I am constantly astounded as this hobby grows... :) I hope to end the upgrading bit for many years with next upgrade. Depends entireley where you spend your time and what you enjoy. Car is important and i wouldn't spend more on hi-fi but priority could be very different for other people. I think enough said already on this sliperry topic! |
I recently heard a pair at a PA dealer and I have to say I was pretty bored with the sound...you are talking about speakers that retail for the price of a mid size sedan!
I am astounded with the market for these... |
""Elviukai,
How many times have u compared scala and maestro head to head? You seem to have formed a form view scala is not quite there. Would b interested in learning more."""
around 4-5times, also had them in my studio for a week with my equipment where i listened them,did comparision and also measured them. I have ability to test speakers before instaling them. by no means Scala is "not there" its very carefyly balanced speaker with tons of audiophile details. Just I am not a fan of of recessed midrange "tunel" and more prefer presence "tunel" where sound is also liquid and not anoying or shouty but also have feeling of intruments presence and palpability. for my taste its the most critical aspect- balance- to have ENOUGHT stage deepness (most sonus faber speaker does that trick) perspective but at the same do not lack midrange presence (wilson audio wat puppy, sasha speakers for example). in this respect i found Maestro superior to Scala and Grande EM. I had Diablo in bedroom but replaced with Sonus faber auditor M,- Diablo is speakers which also have some signs of big brother Maestro(trying to achive that presence) and it is not good for evening listenings- its just sounds too atracting and require atention-in another words - its not for background listening.
""""""07-06-10: Mert
Elviukai,
The thing is not buy a loudspeaker and accept how it sounds.
The thing is buy a loudspeaker and direct how it will sound.
There are variable factors that you may affect by choosing gear, powerconditioning, cables which will decide the character of overall sound.
When we talk about speakers around 30k usd range, simply we talk about a few exceptional designs available to end users. Most of them are well above certain level and capable 90-95 percent what Hi-End all about. Rest of the job is finding electronics and cables according to own taste.""""""""""
Mert, good point. however from my expierence nothing (except some changes- room acoustic) at whooping level will change speaker primary nature. yes hights can be smoothed out, or bass gripped up and so on. but some things is just against nature and physical laws. I myself for example prefer big orchestra and especialy wind bands -very few speakers on the market can reproduce scale ,presence and detail of wind instrumets(walthorn for example) focal has stuning ability to reproduce lower tone wind instruments in clear, non discorted or muddy aspect. for example when compared Scala and Maestro I listened listening Dallas wind orchestra "Strictly Sousa" and "Marches I've missed" albums- Scala does it clear and "audiophile" way-none detail is missing, while Maestro have the same, but also frigtnening presence of performance- I can feel wind instruments the energizing and vibrating air , and feel moments of dynamic outtakes when orchestra swings from fortissimo to pianissimo(not the backward-its the most enjoyable dynamic swing for me-when i hear "silence" in pause) I listen live performance one or two times in 2 weeks and would be silly to claim any speaker reproduce windband life like at all aspects but theese dynamic outtakes are damn close and this single aspect is enought for me to "take me there" - convince in musical performance. |
Elviukai,
The thing is not buy a loudspeaker and accept how it sounds.
The thing is buy a loudspeaker and direct how it will sound.
There are variable factors that you may affect by choosing gear, powerconditioning, cables which will decide the character of overall sound.
When we talk about speakers around 30k usd range, simply we talk about a few exceptional designs available to end users. Most of them are well above certain level and capable 90-95 percent what Hi-End all about. Rest of the job is finding electronics and cables according to own taste. |
Mert,
Yes eventually amp budget will have to follow speakers. But one step at a time. :). Also will take my amp to check and make sure they could make something out of scala. I will not get scala without proof they r agreeable with 80w of naim power.
Elviukai,
How many times have u compared scala and maestro head to head? You seem to have formed a form view scala is not quite there. Would b interested in learning more. I spent only around 30min with scala with my wife. She liked it a lot too and admitted they were special but does not fully fancy them. She prefers Tidal. |
I wouldnt call Scala just "less of grande em" or let say less of Maestro(which is realy diferent from Scala- in both smoothness and ability to play loud without stress,and without loosing soundstage. )
IMHO Scala is quite diferent from either Diablo, Maestro and Sella EM. the only similarity to other utopia II is technical performance of speaker drivers, but Scala have slight diferent signature than other models- its litle bit more agressive/hot in higher midrange(thought by no means its not yelling in face-its just when compare side by side with Maestro or Grande EM) , and more leaner in midbass- its perfect in small or problematic rooms with resonanse modes at 50-60hz or to "ligt music listeners" (small jazz groups, vocals, opera) |
KW13,
If you go with Scala, you need to spend 2.5 times more what you did in past. Naims is not everybody's taste and not the amp for every speaker. If you like Naim sound , maybe new Naim Ova.speaker will please you.
Regarding Scala-Maestro comparison, consider new Utopia floorstanders as whole. The size of the room is matter. For example, Wilson Max 3 is very good speaker but too much for my small living room. Sasha will play equally good in my room. Same rule applies to Utopia range. Very very good speakers demand not just best gear available but space as well.
As far as Amati Aniver. concerned, I choose Wilson Sophia 2 or 3 over Amati. I have tested Amati Ani. very objectively and couldn't make it sing despite various very good equipment.
I hope this helps... |
Mert,
Thanks, that's encouraging. I heard Scala only once and immediately thought it was ahead of every other speakers I had heard up to that point. (I only listen to speakers generally below US$40K. I have heard a few around 100K+ but didn't think there was anything particularly special about them.)
My set up is Cremona M + Marantz SA7-S1 + Naim amps (power amp 250.2 at 80w).
I could afford to upgrade to Scala and my budget would be burnt. I hope the amps are ok for a year while I save for
next upgrade.
My current room is 4m x 6.5m.
I will be able to audition Scala again soon in a similarly sized room. I will bring my amps.
But I will not be able to hear Maestro, which a few people here say is the sweet spot in the line. While undoubtedly superior (given price), I can't imagine that it would be much better. But of course I want to make the right decision. If Scala is most of Maestro but with smaller footprint I would be ok to live with Scala. For example, Amati is significantly "more" than Cremona M, and I would not settle for Cremona M. I would like to be able to settle with Scala for many years (if not a "last" pair). |
Kw13
As far as every critical aspects of concerned, I have to say that Focal made a very good speaker indeed. Simply better than not just Sophia, SF Amati..., old Nova Utopia as well. Generaly speaking, if we say Focal Grand Utopia(latest) one of the best speaker that money can buy, few will argue and majority will accept this claim.
Scala is the Utopia Grand for us who don't have a large living room or dedicated listening room.
If you give me idea about your setup, I may make more specific comments concerning Focal Scala Utopia. |
Mert,
So have you formed a definitive view about scalas yet?
Others, what is your latest view?
Thanks. |
Actualy, I do own Scala for two weeks, I replaced my Wilson Sophia 2 with it. Before having sold ARC REF 3, I had a few listening sessions and I would say it sounded more accomplished and potent speaker. However, I replaced my ARC REF 3 with Esoteric C-03 preamp. Plus I am changing some of cables as well. I will be 100 percent sure what Scala all about by next week. (still waiting cables from Robert, Cable Company) |
How are you guys going with your Scala? I am considering a pair. Would be interested to hear from anyone who has auditioned Scala. Thanks. |
Bstefano, do tell us, you own Scala's maybe? |
Why is Scala the winner? What are the pros of the Scala that make you say that? What type of music do you listen to and what attributes of speakers do you value?
In my opinion it's all about tradeoffs; I've yet to hear a speaker that does everything (that I value) well. |
Hands down, Scala is the winner! |
Well...its been a while, and I'd like to say that I have had the Focal Scalas for a few weeks now and have broken them in quite a bit during this time...
I am discovering more of my collection daily...classical orchestral, jazz particularily...The best way I can describe them are, superb dynamic control but with no over-analytical annoyances that some high-end speakers have. I simply enjoy all that is displayed on them. Rock to jazz to pop all sounds musical and lifelike. Yes, they should at this price level but other speakers at this level dont all produce such listenable results. I wont be searching for an alternative anytime soon... |
Well done Cameron, you're in for a treat. Report when you get them. Remember to give them a lot of break-in.
JB |
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just curious...what finish did you order for the Scalas??
Pepe |
Pkancel,
I too settled on the Scalas! And will have them in a couple of weeks. |
My Scalas are in-bound. Got an amazing deal and I can't wait to break them into my study. |
I second that. Beautiful sound, and great look. Best Focal I have heard |
I am definitely going with the Scalas. Even though they are a bit more expensive, they are better in every way. One point that bears mentioning is that the placement of the Sashas had to be several feet into the room and needed hours of tinkering while the Scalas were easing to place. I don't thunk the Wilson dealer could ever quite the right spot fo them after three and a half hours for tweaking but the Scalas locked in within minutes. That attribute can't be overlooked. |
Pkancel,
So what was your overall verdict on the Sasha's? Sounds like your pick goes to the Scala... |
Actually when you see it for real, it's quite of compelling. Didn't use to like it a first but the more I see it, the more I like it! And it's made like a Bentley too. :) |
I like the Focal sound but doesn't that kind of droop- looking leaning-over cabinet profile turns me off. It's an attempt to time-align the drivers. Admittedly, it's not the most beautiful of designs -- useful, though. |
I like the Focal sound but doesn't that kind of droop- looking leaning-over cabinet profile turns me off. That doesn't bother you? |
I agree with Pkancel, the Be tweeter is everything but shrill. It is incredibly airy, smooth and transparent, and probably one of the best in the world.
Yes Focals CAN sound shrill contrary to a lot of speakers which will impose their colorations on music and make everything sound more or less the same. But with proper matching (which is not difficult at all to achieve), they sound amazingly sweet and delicate. And if the music sound shrill (strings at full blast can do sometimes), then I want my speakers to be able to reproduce it.
I've noticed a lot of people are actually looking, consciously or unconsciously, for an interpretation of what live music sounds like, as opposed to the (sometimes uncomfortable, sometimes sublime) truth. And that's perfectly fine, it's all about enjoying the music after all.
But if neutrality and transparency (in other words, high fidelity) is what one is after, then the Utopia 3 series is the closest thing to live music I've heard. I have not heard everything out there but they are very, very special and fundamentaly different from what others do.
I won't comment on Wilson, which I haven't heard in a long time, except to say the beryllium tweeter is technically much more advanced than the titanium one. |
I had to chime in on this thread as I have just wrapped up an eight day in-home demo of the Sasha against the Scalas.
I have to ask Dfw, what electronics were you playing the Scalas on?? I played them on all three sets of my electronics and they never sounded shrill. Unless you are playing on edgy electronics, the Scalas played with incredible balance and made evrything I played through them just turn into music. The Sashas had wholes in the sound reproduction and presented some harshness on a variety of media. Rock, bad recordings, and inflated bass track hated the Sashas where as te Focals stayed composed. The Berylium tweeter in the Focal is amazing and the legacy Focal tweeter in the Sashas were sharp to say the least.
Btw, my electronics ranged in combo from EMM, Pass, Levinson, Mcintosh, Burmester, Esoteric, and BAT.
Interested to hear back. Thanks |
