I own the ARC PH-8 and used to own the PH-7. I'm don't know what type of low gain MC cartridge you have in mind. But, FWIW, the PH-7/8 can do a good job with MC cartridges having as little as .5mV output. Admittedly, many of the finer low output MC cartridges may only produce as little as .25mV of gain. That is clearly too low for the PH-7/8. If you have the $$$, the ARC Ref Phono 2 (or SE version) can handle the lower output MC cartridges. |
Thanks, Bifwynne, you've helped me in the past with some good advice. I don't have the budget to jump up to the ARC Ref 2, as much as I'd like. I've got a line on a Dynavector XX2, always loved Dynavectors, but the gain on the PH7 is not sufficient to handle that cartridge. |
I would look into the Herron Audio VTPH-2 with 69 db of gain. It will easily be the equal of you ARC PH-7 and may even surpass it. Here is the website http://www.herronaudio.com/vtph2specs.html. Good Luck .
Chuck |
If you are happy with your PH-8 (mine is a "lowly" PH-5) why not consider a step-up transformer rather than an entirely new phono stage? |
Hi Palewin,
Main reason is $$, with the Pass XP-15, Im looking at a phono stage roughly equivalent in value to my PH7, so my overall investment stays the same. A quality SUT + another set of interconnects is not going to be cheap...plus they can add another level of coloration to the sound.
Thanks! |
Tim, the XP15 is a wonderful phono pre. I run an XX2 with phenomenal results using the medium 66 db gain loaded at 100 ohms. I run balanced out. Very quiet and so smooth with amazing 3d soundstage. Phenomenal bass control. No grain whatsoever. I give it the highest recommendation and got a great deal from Mark at Reno HiFi which offers no risk trial other than shipping. No affiliation just a happy customer. |
Awesome, Swanny, I'm ordering one from Mark and will let you know what I think! |
I also give it the highest recommendation. And I also got mine from Mark at Reno HiFi. It was a superb transaction.
The XP-15 was a tremendous upgrade from my Xono. Tone and timbre both improved quite significantly. I couldn't be more pleased. |
Kennyb, I completely agree about tone and timbre. I always felt the earlier Pass stuff was to the cooler side of neutral having owned an X1 pre and moving to an XP10. I have heard the Xono and agree about the increase in sound quality with the XP15. Lanetim--hope everything works out well. The directions by Wayne Colburne that come with the XP15 for setting gain and loading are really quite helpful. I tried a few settings but pretty quickly settled on where I am now. Can you tell us more about your setup, esp the preamp--what gain does that offer now? Have you decided on the dyna xx2? Keep us posted. Swanny |
PS, A friend of mine was over the other day and had never heard my setup before (and probably nothing approaching high end before either). We ended up listening to a bunch of vinyl for a couple hours while our wonderful wives tended to a play date with our daughters. He was really blown away and so was I with record after record. It's a very revealing stage but also one that performs so well and so naturally that no matter the type of music it all is well presented in a very musical and non fatiguing fashion. It just gets out of the way and lets you hear deeply into the recording. That is, if everything is set up properly up the chain--tonearm, cart, clean records, etc. |
I've been pretty much an ARC guy for some time. My current preamp is a Reference 5, and my power amp is a Reference 150. Turntable is a VPI Scoutmaster with a Classic 3 arm w/ the Classic platter etc.
I've decided to spend my upgrade budget this year on bringing my Ref 5 up to SE level...been on the upgrade waiting list for nearly a year. Time to try calling Kalvin at ARC again... Going to the Ref 5 made the biggest difference in my system by a big measure. It is a phenomenal preamp. |
I have an XP-15/Lyra Delos/VPI Classic and really enjoy the rig. I don't have any ARC experience, but this combo plays nice together. Run balanced out to an XP-20, very very quiet. |
IF you can swing it, go all the way and get the XP-25! That's what I plan on doing! :D |
Dave,
Unfortunately my budget won't allow for that...and if I have the $$ I would have to consider the ARC Ref Phono 2 SE! |
I see, Lanetim, well it was such a mere suggestion. Good luck to you whatever you choose... |
I meant "just a suggestion" lol. |
Swanny,
I've had the XP-15 in my system for 3 days, so it is still breaking in. I can tell there is an absence of grain, and the sound is very clean. However, at this point it does not have the excitement and 'air' around percussive elements like triangles and cymbals, and the beautiful midrange which the PH7 has in spades.
Did you notice this with your XP-15, and did it develop with further break-in?
Thanks
Tim |
OK, I got the XP-15 in, and let it break in for a week. Initially, it seemed very detailed but also very bright and a bit hard in the treble. As it broke in, it did mellow a bit.
Relative to my PH7, it had well articulated bass...individual notes were clearly defined. And it was really quiet...the music seemed to emerge from a totally back background. And it is beautifully built, the casework is excellent. And the user has compete control over not only resistive loading, but also capacitance and gain. It would seem to let you shape the sound of any cartridge to your system.
But as my wife quickly pointed out, it seemed to really emphasize the treble over the midrange. The PH7 was simply more musical, beautiful in tone, and really fun to listen to. With the XP-15, the mind seemed to drift off, listening to an individual instrument, while with the PH7, you just soak up the really huge soundstage and absorb all of the music.
Having my wife come in, I set up the XP-15, and let her listen to a couple of records. Swapping in the PH7, it only took her 1 minute while repeating the 1st record to say 'you can stop now'.
Unfortunately, the XP-15 is not the solution to my little problem. So it went back in the box and was shipped out. A really interesting experiment!! |
How much time did you spend optimizing load? That you would report that it emphasized the treble over the midrange suggests this may not have been dialed in.
My XP-15 was never ever bright. Which cartridge do you have? |
Soundsmith/VPI Zephyr. I spent quite a bit of time playing around with the capacitance loading. The Zephyr doesn't like loading below 47k, so that's where I left it. |
Thanks for the review, Lanetim. Much appreciated. |
Dave,
I think in the right system the XP-15 could be the ticket...it was interesting to see just how different these two phono stages sounded. My wife had no trouble instantly picking off the differences, and she's never picked up a Stereophile in her life!
Maybe it's not unexpected that an ARC phono stage would naturally be the synergistic match to a Ref 5 and a Ref 150. The XP-15 certainly gives the user a lot more options with all the cartridges out there, and I think it is a good value. I just couldn't give up the PH7. |
Lanetim,
I see. Yeah, that must definitely have been interesting! That's cool. It's always good to have another pair of ears, particularly of someone you trust.
Yeah, that's true. Well, that's ok. You tried it, and that's what counts. I understand totally. |
Thanks to all who posted on this thread so far. In the end, you decided that with your Audio Research Pre-amp, the PH7 clearly beat the XP-15.
With my Pass Labs XA30.5 amp and Acoustic Zen Adagio speakers, the XP-15/XP-10 combo definitely beat and Audio Research LS-17 SE/PH7 combo.
The LS17 SE has a lot I like about it, but ultimately seems like a poor match with my amp - the highs can be fatiguing and the bass response doesn't seem flat or coherent. I've read about a possible impedance mismatch between the two, Regardless, I like the LS17SE.
The PH7 is a clearly an amazing phono stage. Wonderful sounding and dead quiet. However, in my system, with the right cartridge loading, the XP-15 is every bit its match, and indeed sounds in some ways like it has as much or more tube magic as the PH7. Regardless, I could live with either for the forseeable future, and indeed give a slight nod to the XP-15 for sound quality with brownie points for not needing to be retubed ever, having more gain (and of course also being dead quiet.) On the PH7's side, the remote with loading and the mono function are really fantastic.
We all read so much into these forum comments that I thought I should share my experience and encourage folks to try both of these amazing units as I think it will come down to system matching and taste more than individual quality. |
Thanks for your comments, Darkj...I agree system matching is always going to be a significant issue. My preamp is a Ref 5, just upgraded to the 5SE. Impatiently waiting for it to break in. |
Does anyone know of changes that were made to the XP-15 mid production?
It appears the Gain options changed along the way from
40,46,71,76 to 46,56,66,76. I can’t seem to find anything
on this. Thanks |
Why don't you reach out to Pass and ask them? Interesting if true. I picked one up second hand recently and downloaded the manual from their web site which says 46, 56, 66, and 76. |
Thanks Big, but thier spec sheet on line says different.
I'm looking at a used unit here in Canada and trying to figure what's real.
Also trying to figure are the balance outputs offering the three gain settings of
56,66,76. I see on the XP17 the Balanced and Single line outputs are different
gain values. 😎 |
This will be my first external Phono stage so I don't know what to expect.
The stage in my Mcintosh can't be that bad but the flexibility with an external
will be nice. Want to switch to a low output Grado with .5-1.0 mv.
This Pass XP15 should be the ticket. 👍
|
Expect a really quiet background and lots of dynamics and detail. It’s a really nice unit. I can’t say how it compares to the McIntosh, but in general a purpose built stand alone phono stage, especially of this quality is going to exceed one included in another device.
Reach out to Pass. If you can get the serial number, they can probably tell you if it is one of the older units with the different gain settings (if that’s a thing) and answer any other questions you have. I had some questions about mine which I purchased second hand and they were very helpful. |
Hey Greg
You're right, I took a chance and called today and someone picked up.
They were getting ready to start up tomorrow after the shut down.
Super helpful, buying U.S. is clearly the only way to go.
He confirmed the Gain settings as follows :
Fixed MM @ 46db
MC is 56,66,76. Balanced
MC is 50,60,76. Unbalanced
He said the marriage of Pass Labs and any Grado cartridge is fantastic.
Looks like I can't go wrong. Some I heard prefer the 15 over the newer 17.
Warmer sounding etc. Either way this 15 is a $1,000 cheaper then any used
XP17 I can find so it's a no brainer. Rather throw that extra cash into a
better cartridge. Thanks Greg. 😎
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I've had the Pass Labs XP-15 for a couple days now, all I can say is Wow !
If had known the difference a Phono Preamp could make I would have
bought one sooner.
Even with a modestly priced Grado the extra detail and sound stage is remarkable.
Also just to add to the above post,
MM Gains are fixed @ 40 Unbalanced .....46 Balanced.
I had read in a forum some where that you should stay within 3db of what's required for your cartridge ie. my Grado has 4.8 mv. output so 46.4 db is ideal.
I was obsessed trying to find the preamp that would fall within those numbers.
In reality being within 3db is not that nessary. My ideal is 46.4 and I'm set @ 40db
Sure I have to turn up the volume a bit, from 10 o'clock to 11:00 but not a big deal. I tried the other side of the 46.4 required and went to 50db but felt better being under. That said I feel if you are within maybe 8db's you should be fine.
The key I think is figuring out exactly how many db's your cartridge requires.
With so many tables and equations or formulas I found I was off by 4-5 db's in
some cases. So get that part right and stay within 8db's and you should be good.
So in short don't obsess over the numbers and not buy the unit you really want.
I almost pasted on my XP-15 because of it and sure glad I didn't.
This puppy is built like a tank and is never leaving my system. 😎
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Good to hear muddy! I really enjoy mine a lot. |
