Ethernet Cables, do they make a difference?

Of course cables make a difference unless you are not actually listening in which case then they make no difference. There is a lot of evidence about the audibility of audio cables right here on Audiogon.

benzman...Pretty easy to hear the improvement. So the answer is if you have a very resolving system an upgraded Ethernet cable will definitely help.  Just proved it in my system.

Yes this can happen and of course there are numerous other comparable testimonials already posted on this forum from other experienced contributors who have personally experienced substantially similar results and I completely agree that a significantly resolving Music Reproduction System is often a prerequisite for achieving results such as you posted. It is most unfortunate however that you will likely encounter responses to your shared experience from others who lack such experience but who have personally concluded based on the "scientific" study of white papers, printed specifications and/or basic textbook theory that such results are impossible except in cases of mental illness such as delusions or hallucinations or otherwise "placebo" affect or "sighted bias" and in fact one such deep thinker has suggested psychiatric medication to "alleviate" such delusions and other admitted that he suffers brain damage from his passed history of drug use but he still thinks listeners with sharp auditory acuity such as yourself are deluded. My efforts to demonstrate this in a public scientific blind listening test did not end well and I was specifically instructed by a Moderator to not provide the person promoting the test with any of the personal information he insisted upon me providing to him personally!

jinjuku" We all had a good time and food for thought. Even brought a bottle of Michters' single barrel Bourbon...People will often take something trivial and make as big of a deal of it as suites their agenda"
Well of course you are free to apply your acquired standards to the reported experience of others and conclude they are "trivial" but it is up to each individual audiophile to decide for thereselves weather such difference's are trivial or represent to them a more significant contribution to the resultant performance of a Music Reproduction System and to the best of my substantial understanding of the human auditory process, system and mechanism there is no evidence at all to support the assertion that the consumption of alcoholic products of any type can in any way enhance the hearing acuity of a listener.

jinjuku"I've also offered to do this at a show. The underlying theme is people and their beliefs are easily separated.":

Of course when you are able to get people "jacked up" on hard liquor it is very possible to manipulate them in to what ever belief you want them to embrace perhaps you should be completely candid with this group and tell it's many participants why you have this enduring interest in manipulating outcomes are you a manufacturer or manufacturers rep, promoter or investor attempting to achieve a specific outcome?

kosst_amojan"Foggythink, a highly resolving system does reveal the differences in Ethernet cables. A highly flawed system does."

Costco while I completely agree that a highly resolving Music Reproduction System can reveal genuine audible differences in ethernet cables that can be reliably detected in a proper scientific double-blind listening tests I think it less likely to be detectable in what you call here a "highly flawed system." That is not to say that it will never be detectable in your hypothetical  "highly flawed system" but statistically I think it is substantially less likely to be reliably detected in such a Music Reproduction System it would depend on the specific system and what exact limitations it possesses that caused it to be "highly flawed" e.g where care the non-linearities noise distortion or other flawed aspects of it's audible presentation?

The level of abject ignorance here proudly displayed by forum users such as jinjuku and kosst are a striking demonstration of the American education system that such level of scientific illiteracy could prevail among a population such as is found here that would pretend to be knowledgeable and explains why the USA has for years been in state of steady decline compared to the substantial advancements that much of the rest of the modern world has made during the same time period. Your future is not bright if the solution to your ignorance is to insult degrade and seek to publically embarrass and chastise a person who has tried to enlighten you even by some small measure do not misunderstand me I think cleeds is worse than a winkly dinkler and it is readily apparent from reading multiple of his posts that he is not what he acts like he is and in fact I am not even sure that he has an audio system at all but he has been correct in his assessments evaluation and presentation of valid listening tests and that there are those who argue so boisterously against such simple facts is a public indictment of the status of the US which of course his few loud critics will not be able to recognize themselves except perhaps with the assistance of they're parents and even in that case I am not sure.

kosst_amojan"And Clearthink, how did you come up with that name...you can't tell the difference between being challenged or being insulted."

Do you want me to apologize to you for causing you a headscratcher over my choice of screenname maybe you will give the matter some serious consideration and with the passage of sufficient time arrive at a reasonable conclusion if you are fortunate because it seems to trouble you deeply and as for not knowing when it is that you think you are insulting me that is most amusing it is not likely that a middle school student such as yourself is capable of insulting me you obviously have too high of an opinion of yourself which is understandable it is what is expected from children they are egocentric in their little world.

It is not a matter of faith or belief you guys have it all wrong it is a matter of how younger people today think the world owes them something this is the result of them getting medals and trophys in they're youth just for showing up! Companies that must hire this demographic and my companies are included in this quickly discover that this is an overriding and consistent characteristic of this specific age group that is difficult to address in many various circumstances the issue hear is simple because those who hear these things have no reason to submit to the incessant and endless demands of those who think they are owed something from those reporting what they hear and those repeating the demands just continue to do so while denying that they are making demands and of course they are not going to do any testing themselves because they feel they are owed these test results just by the mere simple fact of them registering for this site and participating hear in the forums! the final and end result of this of course is that there is no final and end result because those who are listening will continue to listen and to report they're experiences hear which is of course valid and the very purpose of this group and at the same time the "naysayers" will just keep naysaying because it is what they do and they are not going to change! And that is why one of the loudest voices in this specific forum for some kind of valid testing required IN ADVANCE agreements with lawyers and a $25K USD wager because he is "owed" that by us yes they think the world owes them!

shadorne"This is how most snake oil audio tweaks read....FYI I have a cure for cancer that works 100%. I sell my elixir for only $10,000 a bottle. This contains enough to treat any cancer for an adult. A friend tried it and the results are amazing, he even started running Marathons and entered an Ironman competition three weeks after the first dose (three doses will cure all cancer). Previously he was bed ridden for three years. Even his wife noticed a difference!!!

That has never happened hear this is an example of complete pure and unadulterated fiction nothing of that sort has ever been posted hear and now that you claim that it has the burden of proof that you so often site is on you to provide and not anyone else hear to refute but of course we know that you are not going to provide that proof because as I explained above you think the world owes you something and you are going to get what Americans call a "rude awakening" when you get in to the real world and find out for yourself that it does not work that way. In the interest of being polite I will not mention how many of the people who call themselves objective have admitted hear to they're passed drug use of pyschedelics and that this has compromised they're "normalcy" so they especially should be felt sorry for.

markalarsen"All I am suggesting is that you try it in your own home in your own system"

You will have to prove it to them first before they do any such thing that is they're approach to this matter that is what you owe them in exchange for you having the benefit of they're appearance and participation and in these forums.

shadorne"There are in excess of 1000 posts on Audiogon alone making incredible wild claims similar to my cancer cure example"

I have not seen on any post within the Audiogon forums any claim that any substance device or protocal could cure cancer, bad breath pimples or warts and if you continue to insist otherwise then as you and others of your thinking are fond of repeating the burden of proof is on you it is easy for you to claim that any claim is a wild claim because you haven't actually had any first hand actual real world experience with the product about which you complain about.

kosst_amojan"Damn straight you have to prove it. I’m not delusional about the nature of my hearing and I know it’s not a measurement apparatus."

Of course we have to prove it and of course your not delusional! Also the world owes you a nice job a pretty girlfriend a house a new car and everything else you’re little heart desires and demands from people you don’t even know You are are special entitled exceptional and in fact deserve a medal and trophy just for making this post! Yup that’s damn straight fella no need ofr you to take any measurements or perform any tests or research damn straight everyone owes you that and more just keep demanding and maybe if you stomp you’re feet that will help too!

kosst_amojan"nobody owes anybody proof. But when they make statements all truth disagrees with, then they shouldn’t be offended when they’re called liars.

That is the sort of playground logic common amongst children it is the same type of reasoning that prompts the answer "I know you are but what am I?" what is especially silly is you’re inflated ego belief that posting anonymously here you’re silly demands and complaints someone might take you seriously enough to become insulted! You’re tantrums here are those of a toddler who needs a changing and a nap probably you have a little rash that is troubling you.

gdhal"Please refer to the scientific double blind test thread"
There are 100's of posts in that thread just tell us hear what you mean by "ordinary speaker wire" and if you are open to other participants in the challenge perhaps willing to meet your $25K USD to attract more participants.

It is apparent that the Moderators have reconsidered they're position regarding you're $25K challenge so let's keep it all in public there is nothing no longer to fear! TYhe blind test should be done with an ABX comparator or an equivalent device they're a a number of these if you have already arranged with an audio dealer to participate in this test it is possible they already have one why don't you ask them and report back.

What do you mean by ordinary speaker wire? I do not actually know weather or not I can detect it on reversed direction or not I think it would be better to test the audibility of the cable first which is a more likely certainty of audibility and what I thought we have been discussing hear with the forum does that effect your $25K USD offer also there may be other things we can test with more people involved so lets' have a conversation hear about other things to test. 

gdhal"By all means, YOU propose the test methodology. I'll then decide go or no go. All reasonable replies considered"

I propose a double-blind test to be conducted in public and designed here in this group please explain how the $25,000 USD will be handled and who will be acceptable to you in proctoring this test and please explain your "AMY>BOB" protocol and provide some reference to establish it's scientific credibility let's get this show on the road and offer some information as to your purpose in establishing the $25,000 USD offer and if there is any limit on the number of participants you are willing to accept within the challenege and please do not ask me for personal information because I have been specifically instructed by the Moderators to not provide it to you at this time.

gdhal"Basically this means you and I can walk in to home depot and ask the rep for wire to fix a table lamp. Something like this:https://www.walmart.com/ip/Pyle-18-Gauge-High-Quality-Speaker-Zip-Wire-50/20551674?wmlspartner=wlpa&...

And you want me to compare this cheap inferior wire not made to audio purposed for $25K USD to what cable another one from your Home Depot store?

gdhal"I understand you are now attempting to "save face" by pretending you have misunderstood what it is you and I have been discussing."
Ask yourself why have I insisted on lawyers, a contract and an escrow account. It is to avoid any misunderstanding by clarifying the details in writing and be in a position to enforce the release of funds (if and when we arrive at that point).

I am not pretending anything hear at all I am trying to understand the exact precise and absolute terms of your $25,000 USD listening challenge and the advantage of discussing it hear in public is that everyone can see what is going on and decide for themselves the extent to which your representations are sincere genuine and honest.

"The idea is not to compare the ordinary wire to something else. It is to compare it to itself, once its orientation has been changed. You know, reversed. "

As I have said from the very beginning of our many communications regarding this topic I am not sure that I could detect such a difference and in fact have never on any occassion either in this forum or elsewhere made the claim that I could detect such a difference so I am uncertain why you would ask that I put up $25,000 USD to prove that I could? It would certainly be worth experimenting to establish under a scientific protocol whether such a change might be reliably detectable but I am not sure why you would insist on a $25,000 payment and agreement with lawyers to perform this test unless you're motives are not sincere genuine and honest so please explain perhaps a better test would be to study the audible differences of your cheap Wal-Mart wire with something specifically specified designed and fabricated for use in Music Reproduction Systems.

gdhal"Given what you are (now) indicating there is nothing further for you and I to communicate to one another regarding any aspect of this matter."

Please explain your fascination with wire obtained from Wal-Mart that is not designed for use in Music Reproduction Systems and why this wire in particular should be the wire you employ in your $25,000 USD listening challenge.  

gdhal"I appreciate your seeking my opinion, but I’ll opt to not respond to your question."

Well what you write hear is obviously a very much response to my questions even though you evaded it so I will ask you then given this change on your behalf are you withdrawing your offer of your previous $25,000 USD challenge or are you stating hear for the record and interest of all those concerned that the offer stands but only if the test is conducted using the Wal-Mart able of your specification?   

gdhal"I'm withdrawing to deal with you, specifically"

Of course it is your absolute and undeniable right to exclude me from your $25,000 USD offer, which only leaves the remaining question of weather this is an offer you would consider extending to other interested parties.

gdhal"clearthink - Of course it is your absolute and undeniable right to exclude me from your $25,000 USD offer, which only leaves the remaining question of weather this is an offer you would consider extending to other interested parties." " Suffice it to say that any interested party knows the appropriate communication channel in which to reach me and find out 🤑"

I have now shown beyond any reasonable doubt that your $25,000 USD challenge has all the appearance of an abject fraud and that your effort to exchange details of the challenge outside of the public eye and to obtain personal information and negotiate the terms under the rigid control of your attorney's for "protection" is part of the fraud and that you have no interest at all in scientifically establishing the validity of your claims which to be clear I never did!

gdhal"clearthink - I have now shown....." "To whom?"
To all everyone now sees that your repeated demands for double-blind listening tests and your $25,000 USD listening challenge is a fraud and that you don't see this is a reflection of a problem with you which you have previously acknowledged in this group and which I will not mention because I am not going to make fun of you even if your problem is a result of your own bad choices.

While we are conducting the $25K USD challenge let us also please consider if other's would like to participate and propose they're own test to establish the repeatable verifiable scientific establishment of audibility that gdhal seems to be so interested in here must be great interest in this and I applaud Audiogon for agreeing again to consider entertaining the public discussion of this test which had previously been forbidden it is great that they have reconsidered this matter for everyone's satisfaction and does anyone else want to contribute to the $25K USD offer!