Hi I've read all your posts about P05 D05 and the general consensus is that it's a good combo. I have the chance of buying a P05 D05 at exactly half new price the units are pristine as new with all boxes manuals etc. But I'm still tempted to try and find a used X01 D2 purely because of it's better transport? Does anyone have any listening experience to push me either way?
Thanks |
thanks Kiwi, thats of big help.
I'll seriously consider the x-03 in the future. |
*** Kiwi,
WOuld you say that the X0-3se might represent a better value than the P5/D5 if the clock generator is not added to the combos ? Questions based around 'value' are always tricky to respond to as value is a very individual thing. Speaking for myself, i firmly believe the X-03 is the sweet spot in the present Esoteric line up in the sense that you have to spend an awful lot more money to get to the next step which price wise [with the exit of the -01 ltd] is the P-05/D-05. Conversely, I thought the P-05/D-05 was terrible value for money. When i told the dealer i was unsatisfied with the improvement in sound quality between the X-03 and P5/D5 for the money invested he told me that he frequently heard that opinion and that the one really needed to buy the G-03X to extract the best from the combo. After the dealer hooked up the master clock i had to agree with him. The combo needs this unit - but it adds another 4k (list) to the price tag. IMHO left to its own devices the P5/D5 is cannon fodder for a number of competitor single box tanks. I have to wonder why Esoteric introduced P-05/D-05 to the portfolio. As i mentioned above i think this combo and the new X-05 are weak additions to the family. |
Your opinion is just that. |
Most dealers are looking beyond one sale and work to assist the customer in finding the best product for the application.
Plus the dealer in many cases has hundreds, even thousands, of hours of experience/familarity with the products.
For these reasons in this thread the dealer is far more credible than any poster. |
Well, the dealer is himself an interested party so his opinion does not necessarily have any added credibility over those having experience with the units and, frankly, many times is less credible. The manufacturer also has his own agenda. This is precisely the reason that threads like this exist, to obtain alternative viewpoints other than those pushed by marketing and sales concerns. |
Why not call or email Esoteric tech service?
Also consider your local dealer instead of relying on amateur opinion and hearsay.
They abound here. |
No, its not the second coming. The P-05/D-05 desparately needs the help of the G-03x master clock generator to really sing. Without this, a number of integrateds eclipse the combo and as such offer far better value for money.
*** Kiwi,
WOuld you say that the X0-3se might represent a better value than the P5/D5 if the clock generator is not added to the combos ?
Tks. |
The P5/D5 was designed to be used with another BNC link between the 2 units to sync the clock. Only then do you realise the full potential of the combo. |
02-22-08: Bar81
Am I reading that right, the P-05/D-05 is the second coming?!? No, its not the second coming. The P-05/D-05 desparately needs the help of the G-03x master clock generator to really sing. Without this, a number of integrateds eclipse the combo and as such offer far better value for money. IMHO the P-05/D-05 and the new X-05 are weak additions to the Esoteric family. |
Does x-03 se capture around 80% performance of the p3/d3? Not even in anyone's wildest dreams. I would say it's maybe 50-60%. |
audiofiel
would it be safe to say that in ranking, the best would be:
p3/d3
x01 d2
x01 le
x-03 se
Does x-03 se capture around 80% performance of the p3/d3 ? |
>>its hard to believe a cdp that costs as much as the X-03se can be considered "value conscious".<<
Actually it's not hard to believe given the context of the other products mentioned here to include the P-05/D-05, X-01D2, P-03/D-03, X-01LE.
In that regard, the X-03SE should appeal to the value conscious buyer.
I hope that helps. |
its hard to believe a cdp that costs as much as the X-03se can be considered "value conscious". In my opinion it is a very good player and can easily be the pinnacle of digital playback for most people. In fact, a cheap $50 cdp from Best Buy can be SOTA and completely adequate for most people! |
I'm not disputing value for money but if you're really concerned about that, then a GNSC Statement Wadia 861se is the way to go; it'll outperform the Esoteric one boxes (and hang with the P-03/D-03) and can be had used for the price of a X-03se. |
No intention of starting a war here but sometimes value becomes a consideration. Player Y might be better than player X but at what cost and how much better is it?
## cost / value is a consideration, otherwise, its always better to aim for the "best" or better units.
Not all systems and owners, for that matter, are sophisticated enough to appreciate the differences between the X-03SE and X-01D2
## am sure there is a noticeable difference betwee these two units but again, the cost might be too high for my wallet to absorb.
So is the person buying the X-03SE "settling" or is he "value conscious"?
## in my case, more like value. but if i could afford it, i'd opt for the p5/d5 or the x01 ltd. |
>>why would you settle for an X-03se when you can afford better units.<<
No intention of starting a war here but sometimes value becomes a consideration. Player Y might be better than player X but at what cost and how much better is it?
Not all systems and owners, for that matter, are sophisticated enough to appreciate the differences between the X-03SE and X-01D2
So is the person buying the X-03SE "settling" or is he "value conscious"? |
Whatever. The point was why would you settle for an X-03se when you can afford better units. |
If to get with x01 d2 i would probably just opt for the accuphase dp78 which is very nice as well. |
If you're willing to go into that price range then you shouldn't waste your money on the X-03se; try the X-01 Ltd or the X-01 D2 |
Tbooe,
Tks for reply. I'm thinking that myself.
Other thing about the D5/P5 is that one need to use two sets of balanced xlr digital cable which can be quite costly + two sets of power cables.
I think the x03se would be a better choice in the end rather than the separates. |
nolitan, i use the D5 with both the Esoteric P3 and a Sonos digital music source. My personal feeling is that the transport makes more of difference than the dac (assuming you are comparing decent quality dacs). That being said, I would get the x-03se rather than a cheap transport and the d5. |
has anyone here tried using a different transport other than esoteric's to connect to the D5 ?
I read that a large part of the p5/d5 excellent performance comes from the D5 converter ?
Also, what would be a better move: buying an xo-3se or a D5 using a cheaper transport ? ex would be something like a nad, cambridge or cec player with digital output ?
tks for inpts |
I am using P-05 Transport (upsampling frequency Red Book Audio to 176.4kHz) and Weiss Medea DAC (Swiss Made) with dual AES/EBU input. It's clear that P-05 out perform my reference Burmester CD transport 979 ($15,000 USD) in terms of detail retrieval, imaging and when it comes to dynamics.
P-05 Dual outputs digital signal XLR (left + right) lest you suspect that this put the other CD Transport at a disadvantage! |
The stereo sound survey is a bit odd in that counts "stars" (out of 5 I believe) a component receives from its reviewers then adds up the # of starts total to get an overall score that decides the ranking...the problem is not all the reviewers vote on all the products while all reviewers vote on any product they have reviewed or wish. Thus not comparing like for like as the # of reviewers can end up the deciding the ranking quite easily...and thus the ranking loses much meaning. However, the mag does provide which reviwer ranked which product how many stars so the reader can make his/her own deductions. |
That makes a lot more sense. In any case, the P-05/D-05 is probably going to move a good amount of units for Esoteric as the price tag is significantly more palatable than the P-03/D-03 and in comparison to the X-01D2, it's aesthetically more refined. |
Someone corrected me, it should be on a performance/price ratio that this ranking was compiled. |
It's C/P value , not absolute value |
Am I reading that right, the P-05/D-05 is the second coming?!? |
HereÂ’s the pretigious 2008 Stereo Sound list - a Japanese hifi mag.
CD transports:
20pts = Esoteric P05 = 600,000yen
18pts = Accuphase DP800 = 950,000yen
14pts = Esoteric P03 = 1,200,000yen
8pts = Chord Coda = 760,000yen
6pts = Esoteric P01 = 2,200,000yen
5pts = Nagra CDT = 1,650,000yen
5pts = CEC TL0X = 1,800,000yen
DAC:
21pts = Esoteric D05 = 600,000yen
18pts = Chord DAC64mk2 = 530,000yen
8pts = North Star Extremo = 380,000yen
5pts = Goldmund Digin Stereo = 300,000yen
4pts = Soulnote dc1.0 = 240,000yen
3pts = Apogee Mini DAC = 106,000yen
3pts = North Star 192 DAC mk2 = 230,000yen |
Smart move and concur on your expenditure priorities. If you're happy with the emmlabs sound then there's no reason to buy a new DAC. I've integrated my two channel a/v setup with my two channel audio system with no ill effects - I run the spdif out of my HD-DVD/Blu-Ray player to my Wadia and it's fantastic; same with the XBox 360 and PS2 into the Toslink input on my Wadia. The key I've found is to isolate the video portions of your system by putting them on a whole different power delivery subsystem with their own power filter to make sure they don't contaminate the audio. |
After some thought, I have decided to merge my two systems (reasons are complicated but not really driven by sound etc but living habits, space etc) and thus rather buying a new DAC I am gonna take my existing emmlabs gear and use it for the sooloss...so the DCC2 connected to both the CDSD and Sooloos. Thanks for the advice on D05 anyhow...but think marginal expenditure would be best spent on upgrading my speakers... |
henryhk, you are correct. I do not convert to DSD as it did not sound good 176to my ears, though I do upsample. Even at a modest encoding setting of VBR 256 (mp3), it sounds remarkably similar to the cd playing through Esoteric P3/D5 combo. I guess I am lucky dont have golden ears! |
thx Tobooe. the interface is so much fun to use...how are your D05 and Sonos connected? My understanding is that it wld bo single ended coaxial digital? And you upconvert to DSD with the D05? |
Good point cmk. I think my remote is the one for the P3. I am still not sure why it would not have an input select option though. One thing that bothers me is that when I do switch from cd to my digital music source, I have to turn off the P3 or else the word clock missing error will blink. Minor annoyance.
Henryhk, the Sooloos looks great! The interface is nice and big. For the price, I really like my Sonos but it does require some hardware while the the Sooloos is a complete package. Very nice! |
Tbooe...exactly what I am lloking for. Ine one of my systems which serves for home theatre as well I aminly use a music server for music: Sooloos. Right now I have it feeding a Mcintosh pre-pro and using the DA stage in the pre pro...and prety sureI can do better thanthat (helps that the Mcintosh pre-pro allows one to by pass everything and use it as 2 channel preamp and a decent one at that). In my other system I have a EMM Labs set up and love it but wqas wondering how th Esoteric D5 would do in this set up. The Sooloos, unfortunately, only has coaxial single end digital outout..... |
Tboooe, my remote model is RC-1156. Its more likely that this remote was meant for the P5, and that Esoteric intended its use for the combo. |
cmk, my remote does not have the input buttons. I wonder why? Do you know the model # of the remote you have?
henryhk, I am very happy using my D5 with my Sonos digital music server. Let me know if you have any questions. |
Henryhk, the Esoteric D5 would be great with other sources as well, I think Tboooe is using it for another source as well.
However you would not be able to gain the full benefits of a full Esoteric combo: Word clock lock - which reduces jitter and the dual XLR/iLink inputs. |
Tboooe, yes you can!
On the D5 under setup: set RC > Enable
On the P3 under setup: iLink > PCM, XLR > DUAL
Word set to 100khz
Then you can use the remote's "INPUT " to toggle between the inputs on the D5.
A word of caution: I tried to use another iLink cable and it didn't quite work. You have to use a good quality(make sure its S400 compatible) iLink cable in order for the 2 units to handshake. Also with the units set to send the WORD data, it takes longer for the WORD to light up/lock on. |
How is the D5 with non Estoteric sources? Anyone have experience? |
cmk, you can switch between inputs from the remote???? I did not know you can do this. Can you explain how you do this? |
Yesterday I tried using the iLink(Firewire) cable link between the P5D5 and it sounds pretty analog, smooth to me. This isn't some "audiophile" approved item, just a cheap computer cable from the electronics store. Quite surprised/impressed by the sound I'm getting from it. With the remote on the D5 turned on, I can also switch between digital cables on the fly. Quite cool.
I'll let it run a bit more before reporting on how it compares with the dual XLRs. |
For the XLR, I'm now using the Slinkylinks. |
CMK, for my connection between the P3 and D5 I do use the dual XLR. I was referring to my connection between my digital music source and the D5. What cables are you using? |
Tboooe, do try the dual XLR connection. |
CMK, I have not tried all the different options but based my decision to use the RCA instead of the toslink on things I read. There are also more choices in terms of cables to use with the RCA. |
Tboooe, have you tried the other connections available? Which is your preferred connection?
Anyone can recommend a good iLink cable? |
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Bar, I chose the D5 for two reasons, the 32 bit dac and the fact that it can upsample which I wanted for my digital music. I did get a chance to compare the P3D5 and P3D3. As you said, they are so close. To be frank, at these performance levels, the differences are so small its hard for me to tell the difference. I ultimately chose the D5 because for some reason (imaginary or not) I thought it sounded more analog. The fact that the D5 could upsample made it an easy decision. Oh and of course the price always helps! |
