Esoteric K-01

Mattjet, utilizing the Esoteric break-in CD is an excellent idea. As for cycling power on and off periodically during break-in, I have just heard from an Esoteric dealer that Esoteric may be recommending 16 hrs of playing time, followed by 8 hours of total downtime... I will check with Esoteric during the coming week.

I used to break-in equipment with continuous playing time.... However, I have heard from an extremely well respected equipment designer that allowing periodic cycling is more effective, because it fosters the overall "demagnetization" of dielectrics, capacitors, and other components. As I have not performed any a/b break-in myself, I do not know if cycling has an audible beneficial effect over simple continuous play.... But I suspect it can't do harm.

While I remain a babe in the woods, If indeed K-01 changes little with break-in, is something I hope to be able to experience on my own before too too long.

G.

Epic, I'm afraid there may be no substitute to putting K-01 on continuous repeat on some "meaty" material with lots of dynamics and complexity. Once a day turn the device off for 30 minutes and then restart the process.... and change sampling rate and filtering each time. On my X-01 breaking lasted a little over 1200 hours.... K-01, being based on AKM DACs instead of Burr Brown, may be different in this last respect. No need to leave your amplifier on during K-01 break-in.

Call Esoteric in USA, tell them you just purchased a K-01, ask them if the would send you a copy of their break-in CD. Set the K-01 to the cd setting you like best and play the break-in cd on repeat disc for at least 500 hours nonstop at very low volume (or any volume you want). I have been informed by Esoteric that every setting would require a break-in of at least 500 hours (including SACD, various filters and upsampling settings). For SACD break in, use an SACD with great dynamics. I have read that break in requires continuous play (ie: not turning off the machine) of at least 500 hours, not cummulative start and stop. I do not know if there is a scientific basis to the need for continuous play, it may be nothing more than opinion of a self proclaimed expert that has been perpetuated.
Despite what Esoteric and many others have said about the improvement with break in, I think the K-01 sounds great right out of the box, once it is warmed up. I think any improvement with break in is subtle.
Enjoy!

Hey guys,

I just got delivery on the K-01, up till now I have been playing 5-6 CDs which means 7-8 hours already.
Understand it's still long way to fully broken in and have stabilise sounding, any K-01 owners can suggest the best way forward to get the break in done?

Thank you for any advise in advance.

Cheers

I have not Tried the K-01 DIRECT TO THE AMPLIFIER. HAS ANYONE TRIED THIS YET? HOW DOES IT COMPARE WITH PLAYING IT THROUGH A HIGH-END PRE-AMP?

Denon1, if your integrated amp has an input for an external preamplifier, you should be able to connect K-03 to that input directly, or through an XLR 2 RCA adapter. G.

MIke60, and Matjet, it is great that yu like you k-01. I have k-03 and it is a great player.In my system and for my ears it bested x01-d2 and wadia s7i. Becaue my integrated has only RCA as diect conect to amplifier and I use only XLR cables, I cant compare how k-03 player sounds direct to amplifer. Can you provide any comments on this subject. It will be greatly appreciated. I am considering change to another amplifer and thiking running k-03 direct. Thank you.

K-01 settings suggestion: 'Fir1' filter and '2x' upsampling. This combination sounds best to me so far.

There is no noise with the K-01; it is dead silent. The build quality is superb. The machine is beautiful, a pleasure to use, look at and touch. The sound stage is extremely three dimensional. Instrument and voice separation is superb and emerges out of a black silent background. Music is very detailed and sounds more alive than any other CD player I have ever listened to. My prior CD player was the Esoteric X-01-D2. There is no comparison, the K-01 is in a different league. The improvement in sound was immediately obvious, right out of the box. I did not have to do an A-B comparison.

I really wanted to love the G-orb. But it made absolutely no improvement in sound with the K-01. I tried it with all types of music, various settings, Sacd, Cd. I focused on all aspects of sound: low level detail, dynamics, bass, treble, midrange, sound staging, timbre, instrument separation, voice, strings, jazz, classical, rock. Lengthy listening and A-B comparison with and with out the G-orb in the loop. I couldn't detect an improvement.

Regarding settings. I am still uncertain which one I like best. I would be interested in hearing what other K-01 owners like best and why.

I have the K-01 and it is a superb sounding machine. It is a big step up from the X-03SE, which I still consider a great player, and which deservedly attracted glowing reviews. I have had a few high end players in my system, and I think the K-01 excels in presenting music with exquisite detail that sounds natural and does not fatigue, and lays out a magical soundstage. Vocals are sublime. It needs
time to run in but fresh out of the box, you already know it is something special.
I think the TAS choice of the S_Dly1 filter on their K-03 review was a mistake, if the K-01 is anything to go by. To my ears the Fir1 or Fir2 (not certain yet but think Fir1) sound better. I feel the S_Dly1 filter seems to flatten out the music a little and rob it of a little air, but it is subtle.
Definitely use the 2x upsampling.

Matjet,

very interesting, I have been holding off getting this unit for the specific reasons Guidocorona mentions.

So I look forward to more details.

How do you find the unit for noise, disc spinning?

Any noise?

Other models including their top unit from first hand experience in my own set-up I could hear such specially on silent passages which was distracting to me and stopped my purchase.

Very interesting Matjet.... In the Esoteric suite it seemed that the G-0Rb clock was making a significant difference.... Seemed to be the consensus.... Tim Crable, visitors, myself... I wonder what else may have been going on that caused the general opinion in the suite, short of mass histeria? Have you tried various clock modes and settings?

By the way, what combination of oversampling and filter settings do you prefer on K-01, and why?

Have you tried the K-01 directly into amp? Opinions?

G.

Guidocorona,
I have owned an Esoteric K01 for at least 6 months. It is the best cd/sacd player I have ever heard, just spectacular. I tried a G-orb with it for atleast 3 weeks, with hours of testing. The G-orb does not improve the sound of the K-01, period. It will probably improve the sound of a 2 unit player (po3/do3 or p01/d01) due to synchronization of transport and DAC, but it doesn't improve a single box unit (K01).

Hi Harv, yes the ability of K-01 to tune effectively the sound to a user's preference via oversampling options and filters was very impressive. I did preferred FIR1 and FIR2, while Esoteric staff seemed to be fonder of the Slo2 filter.

G.

Guido - it was my pleasure to finally meet you as well!

I also spent a fair amount of time listening to the K-01 at RMAF and came away very impressed, as I had a hunch I might. The ability to nuance the sound with the different filters as well as the ability to play SACD in native DSD were 2 areas that my current NWO-M does not possess. The ability to be able to select these as needed or desired is a good selling point, IMHO. I am now more curious how the K-01 will sound in my system, although not to the point of trying it yet. Going from a single box solution back to 2 boxes doesn't feel like "simplifying" to me, even though I still have my Esoteric rubidium clock and digital cabling. :-)

I listened to K-01 extensively at RMAF 2011... While it is rather difficult for me to contrast K-01 with my own X-01 Limited, without having both in the same system, K-01 was A/B/C/Ded against several lower end Esoteric players in the suite, with audible results commensurate with a good fraction of the respective price differences.

The benefit of controlling K-01 through a G-0Rb clock was not at all a subtle affair... The audible result was rather obvious to me, as well as to all listeners I queried on the subject.

I left RMAF intrigued enough that I intend to audition K-01 in my own system one way or another before too long.

Harv, it was absolutely fabulous finally meeting you!

G.

Anybody compared the Esoteric K-01 to the Burmester 089 yet ? Feedback would be appreciated.

Hey Cat007, thanks for that very insightful answer that really answered my question well. Good writing! Best to you.

I would like to attempt to answer the question posted by Rgs92. I believe that a good audio component should not only be transparent and accurate but also capable of providing a complete representation of the music recorded (redbook or SACD); so we will be provided with a "warm" sound which is different from "coloration". The K03 fails to achieve that while the X03SE does it but not as detailed as the K01. If you do a blind test to remove as much bias as possible (that you may have acquired based on previous impressions or because you like some line of products) and compare these 3 players while listening Ana Caram (Rio after Dark Album - 4th track) you very likely agree and understand my statement. Poorly mastered CD's sound like they are: " poor", not improved. Tks. Cat007

Did anybody tried the digital volume control on k-01 or k-03 running directly to the amplifier, it is intersting how does it compare with pre-ampifer in place. Thanks you.

Are you saying the K01 is a nice warmish player (on redbook)?
Have you tried it on some poorly mastered CDs?

I just got my K01 and had the opportunity to compare with a K03 and my previous XO3SE. Even out of the box before I play my Isotek CD for a few days to do some breaking of the system...it is clear and hands down that the K01 is the best player of the group in so many areas. Interestingly the K03 was not as open and warm as my X03SE which came second during my blind test at home with a couple of audiophiles. I was quite impressed to see how good of a player is the X03SE...I will keep it for my second system. True HiFi has a price...the K01 is a clear example. Try it at your local dealer..you will then believe my words...hopefully you can compare the player with any other unit that they may have. I can easily predict which one you will pick.

Thank you for the compliment. I'm pretty happy. If I didn't have the NWO, I would probably get the K-01. Although I have yet to hear it, various friends whose opinions I trust implicitly have raved about it.

Thanks Fplanner. Good to know that the nwo can do this. By the way, those awesome VR7s you have sing with the most gracious upper mids and highs around.

Maybe... but I KNOW Alex's NWO-M 4.0 does this, as I hear it everyday. :-)

Hi Matjet, thanks for the response. After many CD players, some players handle lesser-quality discs better than others, say with somehow detecting digital glare and recessing the upper mids a bit (BBC dip?).

I don't think coaxing detail and character out of vintage recordings in redbook while avoiding harshness and glare is impossible, and to me it's the holy grail of digital processing, and, like I said, some players do this well, some not.

At least that's how it sounds to me with the players I've owned. (I've had a lot of them and certainly the newer ones are better at this now). It's some sort of digital processing magic I confess I don't understand (maybe analog-stage also). I'm sure Alex could explain this somehow.

So, if I want to listen to the Supremes and have Diana Ross sound powerful and detailed but not painfully piercing (like vinyl can do to my ears, or SACD with other vintage recordings), would the K01 fill the bill better than other contenders?

Nothing can make poorly recorded music sound good. Well recorded CD's sound absolutely superb on the Esoteric K01. I think many well reorded CD's sound just as good as SACD's on the K01.

So would anyone say the K01 handles poorly recorded popular-music redbook discs OK, reducing the digital glare and shout in vocals and the upper mids that I think is a central fault with many redbook CDs?

I like how SACDs (most of them) don't seem to suffer from this on good machines.

Thanks.

the goldmund transport/dcs debussy combo can not play sacd.

and is of course very natural sounding combo.

FWIW, TAS (Alan Taffel) says in the May/June issue of K-03 on redbook: "the K-03 sounds beautiful, delivers exceptional detail and spatial depth, and is tonally ravishing. On the other hand, it is missing the ultimate resolution, openness and freedom from digital edginess that makes today's reference gear so relaxing and engaging."

He says his Goldmund transport/dCS Debussy DAC have better resolution.

Mr. Taffel says the K-03 is much, much better on SACD and as a DAC.

Here's a link to that thread:

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?ddgtl&1301679798&&&/EMM-Labs-XDS1-vs-Esoteric-K-01

Joe-

I believe you might be trying to compare apples and oranges, as they say. I would either call Esoteric or your Esoteric dealer if you have one. There is also another thread here talking about the K-03 with some feedback from several dealers that you might want to check out. Their comments pretty much echo what I was told by my contacts at Esoteric, FWIW. Good luck and let us know if you get the K-03!

Brucebraun, I currently own an Esoteric SA-50 and was thinking of upgrading to the K-03. Do you really think it’s worth the upgrade and much higher price? Please list all the improvements you noticed moving up to the K-03. Much appreciated. Thanks! Joe

Upgraded from SA-50 to K-03. Allowed CD player portion to burn-in for 30 days and it made a huge difference. Now burning-in the USB and Toslink stages.

Have compared single-ended to balanced XLR but cannot hear a differnece (AU-24e).

Could not afford the K-01 so did not audition.

The K-03 is one heavy S.O.B. You will not feel cheated.

Looking at a K-01 or a Luxman D-08. Tough to choose. Perhaps a Audio Note dac and transport combo?

Any updates on these two players?

Has anyone compared the K-01 to the K-03 ?

Dear Matjet, I own the current top of the line:
> Omega 2 MkII headphone (referred as SR-007A), retailing for 1500-2000USD I think.
> SRM-727A amplifier, this is the solid state version which retails for about 1500USD (you'd need to check where you live, Stax is notoriously expensive outside of Japan). There is also a tube top end Stax amplifier (SRM-007t I think It's called), which is similar price to the SRM-727A but I prefer the former with my Omega 2.
> The prototype C32 headphone is going to be more expensive, probably in 4-6kUSD range which is getting seriously expensive for a headphone, but again will outperform 40kUSD speakers on several levels.

For the rest, I will post in the other thread...
arnaud

I have started a thread on the best earphone/headphones and dedicated amps. I think it is an interesting topic.

Arnaud,
Thank you for your interesting and informative reply. I tried some high end headphones including a pair of Stax (I think they retailed for about $1000) a couple of years ago, but the dealer did not have a careful setup, no headphone amp, and I don't recall what we used as the source. I didn't buy because I was not impressed. But a great sounding head phone system would be quite useful, especially if it sounds as good as you describe. Do you feel Stax makes the best headphone? What is their top of the line model and price? What is the best headphone amp/model today (Stax, or other brand)?

Dear Matjet,

Re your inquiry about headphone amps: Stax headphones are electrostatic type so you need a special amplifier for them. I use an SRM727A with my Omega 2 (SR-007A). It's expensive on its own (around 1000USD) but peanuts compared to a source like the K01 and especially relative to proper amplification cost to make a good set of loudspeakers sing.

As to what you can achieve with a good headphone system: a lot! Personally, I have moved away from loudspeakers over 10 years ago and never looked back. The resolution and finesse of Stax electrostats is very hard to beat with loudspeaker based system, even in the stratospheric high end region... I had the privilege to listen to Stax's new flagship prototype (codenamed C32) and, imo, it sets a new standard for headphone based sound reproduction.

This Stax headphones have such resolution that a poor quality source is absolutely no go. On the other hand, unlike many loudspeaker systems, this extreme resolution does not make poor recordings unlistenable. It scales up with the source and recording but never sounds brittle or shrill unless you really feed it with garbage.

The bass is of course missing the chest impact of loudspeaker system but it is so clean and tight and goes very low so, personally, I have totally gotten used to this. It should be a nice experience with the K-01, given Esoteric's fame for solid low end reproduction.

Finally, for imaging, against some learning process is in order to reconstruct a plausible soundstage from headphone. But once you can achieve this, there are again very very few loudspeaker setups that will have such accurate 3D placement of instruments like Stax earspeakers (in particular the C32 which throws a wide and deep soundstage while maintaining perfect instrument placement). Again here, I can't wait to see how it will scale with the K-01!

Sorry for the long reply, headphone addict here ;) If you want to know more: www.head-fi.org...

arnaud.

Thanks Bill... do keep us posted. G.

Alex,
I live in Ma., near Boston.

That is true Guido.

I'll go back to one of my Pass preamps in due time.

Dealer disclaimer.

Thank you Bill, if I remember correctly, C-03 has pseudo-balanced inputs and outputs, while it is internally single ended. This design might have a 'normalizing' effect on C-03, as X-03 output is transformed into single ended no matter what. It might be interested to drive a symmetrically balanced pre that has both XLR and RCA inputs... with X-03 and see what happens.

Saluti,

Guido

Guido,
I've been moving the K-03 in and out of different systems but at the moment:
Esoteric C-03
Pass XA30.5
Dynaudio Sapphire

Dealer disclaimer

Hi Bill, what was the rest of your system? G.

Matjet,

The AK4399 DACs have balanced outputs. In order to provide SE output, a balanced to SE converter is required. To me, this appears as an additional stage on the signal path. So I'd be very surprised if RCA outputs sound better compared to the XLR. Of course, you can always experiment.

BTW, where in the US are you located, if not a secret?

Best,
Alex Peychev

I've compared single ended to balanced on the K-03 and cannot hear a difference.

Dealer disclaimer.

I have been using balanced with my K01. Maybe I'll try out single ended connection.

Anyone compare balanced to single ended on the K01?