Esoteric K-01

Alex,
I live in Ma., near Boston.

Acharpen,
I agree with your assessment of the K01. I upgraded my Esoteric X01D2 to the K01 about 6 weeks ago. The K01 is the best CD/SACD player I have ever heard. Incredible detail, low level detail, 3d soundstaging, instrument separation, dynamics; beautiful life like music. Instruments seem to appear from a black silent background.

I recently purchased the Esoteric K-01 to replace the X-01D2. The K-01 is far superior to the X-01D2. The improvement was easy to detect, no A-B evaluation was necessary. The K-01 sounded extraordinary right out of the box, still cold. It is the best Cd/SACD player I have ever heard. I am trying out the G-orb, which I intend to buy, but its effect is subtle. The K-01 sounds great with or without the G-orb.

I have never compared the two. Esoteric website will outline the diferences. You should compare them at your dealer's shop.

Hi Alex,

I was unfamiliar with APL until today. I did a little research after reading your response to my note. Your NWO 4.0 is very impressive. It appears that Esoteric may have learned a thing or two from your work. I have some questions:

1)Why did you not preserve the ability to use a high end external master clock with the NWO (like the Esoteric G-ORb)? Do you feel a G-ORb could improve the performance of the NWO 4.0 if the NWO allowed for use of an external clock?

2) What is the retail price of a new NWO 4.0? How long a wait for delivery? Where can it be purchased?

3)Where can I listen to an NWO?

4)How do you brake-in the NWO for SACD (the Isotek disc is a CD). How much time do you feel the break in process requires?

Thank you.

Hi Alex,
My questions in my previous note are directed to the NWO Master version.
One more question:
What power cable(s) and interconnects do you recommend?
Thanks.

Hi Alex,
Thank you for your informative response. I have a few follow up questions.

What is the accuracy of the clocking mechanism used in the NWO M?

Could you explain in layman terms why a more accurate clock (G-ORB) would not improve the sound of the NWO M (if it were designed to accept an external clock)? Clock use with single box CD/SACD players is a controversial subject. Your answer to this question would help my understanding of this important topic .

Finally, what is your opinion on use of an external clock with CD players like the Esoteric K-01? (in view of your professional relationship with Esoteric are you able to answer this question objectively?). There are widely varying opinions throughout Audogon on this subject. I think you are well respected and have a large following on this site. I am sure a lot of people would lke to hear your frank, candid opinion on external clock use (especially highly accurate atomic Rb clocks like the G-ORb) with single and seperate box cd players.

Thank you.

Hi Alex,
I have a few follow up questions:

What is the accuracy (in ppm) of the clock(s) used in the NWO M?

Can you explain in layman terms why a using a highly accurate external clock like a G-ORb would not improve the sound of the NWO M?

Use of an external clock in single box CD/SACD players is a highly controversial subject. You are well known and well respected on Audogon. I am sure a lot of people would like to know your thoughts on use of an external clock. What is your opinion of using an external clock with single box players like the Esoteric K-01? Does it improve single (and multiple) box players? Why or why not?

Thank you.

Based on your explanation, use of an external clock does not reduce jitter in a single box player. It should not improve the sound. It appears, an external clock could increase the noise floor and have an adverse effect on the sound.

Your comment, based on Alex's explanation, indicates that we are being misled by companies like Esoteric and DCS, and reviewers like Robert Harley who claim highly accurate external clocks reduce jitter and improve sound.

I would like to hear from Alex (and anyone else who cares to comment) on these questions/issues).

What are you doing with your G-orb?

Hi Alex,

I appreciate your response. However, I am still confused.

If a more accurate external word clock does not reduce jitter, how does it improve sound in a single box CD/SACD player that has only one master internal word clock? Synchronization by an external clock would be unnecessary since there is only one clock. The unit's transport is 'slaved' to the internal clock which connects with the DAC. The transport and the DAC are already synchronized by the single internal word clock.

According to what I have read (at least the way I understand it), it is inaccurate timing and/or timing errors that lead to clock jitter. A more accurate and more stable word clock, provides more accurate timing and fewer timing errors. The result is significantly less jitter resulting in improved sonics.
Is this not an accurate statemnt? Please explain.

Could you explain the difference between asynchronous and synchronous digital in layman terms and tell why you feel asynchronous digital is better than synchronous?

Thanks again

Audiofeil, I have reviewed many of Alex's contributions in Audogon (and elswhere). I have never met him and do not own any of his products. My inmpression is that he is a gifted and probably brilliant, driven, obessive compulsive perfectionist audio equipment designer. He has made many contributions in various threads which clarify some very controversial technical audio topics (clocks, for example) which no one else has answered competently or honestly (including several reviewers). I am not at all offended by information he provided regarding purchase information of his cd player; I asked for it.

Based on my review of Alex's comments here (and more importantly elsewhere) and my own listening experience, I believe that extremely accurate external clocks (even atomic clocks) do not benefit single box CD/SACD players, only seperate box equipment (DAC/transport separates) which require synchronization and are unable to synchronize themselves. Single box players are already synchronized. Possibly, if the single box player has a very poor internal clock, it might benefit from an accurate external clock. But why waste money on a lousy player with a lousy clock then try to improve it with an expensive external clock? That does not make sense.

If anyone would care to comment on my observations and conclusions, I would love to hear from you (that includes you Alex).

I have learned a lot from Alex's posts. He has contributed greatly to Audogon.

Audiofeil, I have two questions for you: Who made you sheriff? Why don't you stop harassing people and get a life? Your remarks are not constructive.

Hi Guidocorona,

I tried the Esoteric G-ORb with the K-01.

Use of an external clock with CD/SACD players, especially single box players is still quite controversial. There is a lot of misinformation floating around. Part of the problem, in my opinion, is the detailed reviews by Robert Harley in Absolute Sound on the G-ORb and more recently with dCS Puccini. One would believe, after reading these reviews, that an external clock (especially a super accurate one like the G-ORb), significantly improves both one and two box players. That simply is not the case. I also suspect that Mr. Harley's concise description of how a more accurate external clock reduces and/or eliminates jitter is very wrong. If I am correct, he has done a great diservice to the high end audio consumer community, creating a great deal of confusion.

I spent a great deal of time listening to all types of music at different volume and from different listening posisitions (mostly prime listening position). I tried A-B comparison as well as lengthy listening sessions. I focused on various aspects of the music reproduction (timbre, decay, 3 dimensional sound staging, instrument separation ('air'), bass, treble, cymbals, guitar and piano notes and decay, transients, voice, classical, blue grass, jazz,rock, you name it, I tried it. I really wanted the G-orb to improve the sound in some manner, but in all honesty it didn't do a thing to improve the sound of the K-01. The K-01 sounds EXACTLY the same with and without the G-ORb; that is SUPERB! So, I will not be buying the G-ORb to go with my Esoteric K01.

I encourage coomments from all on this interesting, controversial topic. That includes you too Bill. We have heard from Alex on this subject. What are your thoughts?

To All: Bill is probably very knowledgeable about audio equipment. I am sure we could learn a lot from him. It is unfortunate that he chooses to expend his energy and time 'policing' Audogon rather than comtributing by sharing his knowledge and ideas.

Hi Elberot2
That is very interesting! Thank you for your input. I would like to hear from others with external master clock experience.

If there is an improvement in sound of high-end single box players (like the Esoteric K-01) when used with a high end external clock like the GORb it is very minimal and subtle. In fact the difference with and without the GORb clock is so incredibly minor that it is extremely difficult if not impossible to detect even with very careful, extensive A-B comparison. Personally, I don't think the GORb has any detectable sonic affect on the K-01.

Unless the A-B comparison is performed as a blind test, it is useless; psychology can play tricks on audio perception.

Is there anyone out there who can compare a high quality single box player (like the K01) with and without a GORb in a blind A-B test and consistently, coreectly indicate when the GORb is on and off? I think not, even you, Alex.

I challenge anyone to prove me wrong. This applies to high end single box players only, not multi box players (where high quality clock use should be easily detected).

I have never spent much tme evaluating headphones, so I am unfamiliar with what can be accomplished with a great se of headphones. Do you use a special head phone amp?

I think comparing the K01 to the P03/D03 would be interesting. The P03/D03 will probably be updated within the next 18 months. I suspect that the K01 will out perform the current P03/D03.

I have been using balanced with my K01. Maybe I'll try out single ended connection.

Anyone compare balanced to single ended on the K01?

Arnaud,
Thank you for your interesting and informative reply. I tried some high end headphones including a pair of Stax (I think they retailed for about $1000) a couple of years ago, but the dealer did not have a careful setup, no headphone amp, and I don't recall what we used as the source. I didn't buy because I was not impressed. But a great sounding head phone system would be quite useful, especially if it sounds as good as you describe. Do you feel Stax makes the best headphone? What is their top of the line model and price? What is the best headphone amp/model today (Stax, or other brand)?

I have started a thread on the best earphone/headphones and dedicated amps. I think it is an interesting topic.

Nothing can make poorly recorded music sound good. Well recorded CD's sound absolutely superb on the Esoteric K01. I think many well reorded CD's sound just as good as SACD's on the K01.

Guidocorona,
I have owned an Esoteric K01 for at least 6 months. It is the best cd/sacd player I have ever heard, just spectacular. I tried a G-orb with it for atleast 3 weeks, with hours of testing. The G-orb does not improve the sound of the K-01, period. It will probably improve the sound of a 2 unit player (po3/do3 or p01/d01) due to synchronization of transport and DAC, but it doesn't improve a single box unit (K01).

There is no noise with the K-01; it is dead silent. The build quality is superb. The machine is beautiful, a pleasure to use, look at and touch. The sound stage is extremely three dimensional. Instrument and voice separation is superb and emerges out of a black silent background. Music is very detailed and sounds more alive than any other CD player I have ever listened to. My prior CD player was the Esoteric X-01-D2. There is no comparison, the K-01 is in a different league. The improvement in sound was immediately obvious, right out of the box. I did not have to do an A-B comparison.

I really wanted to love the G-orb. But it made absolutely no improvement in sound with the K-01. I tried it with all types of music, various settings, Sacd, Cd. I focused on all aspects of sound: low level detail, dynamics, bass, treble, midrange, sound staging, timbre, instrument separation, voice, strings, jazz, classical, rock. Lengthy listening and A-B comparison with and with out the G-orb in the loop. I couldn't detect an improvement.

Regarding settings. I am still uncertain which one I like best. I would be interested in hearing what other K-01 owners like best and why.

I have not Tried the K-01 DIRECT TO THE AMPLIFIER. HAS ANYONE TRIED THIS YET? HOW DOES IT COMPARE WITH PLAYING IT THROUGH A HIGH-END PRE-AMP?

Call Esoteric in USA, tell them you just purchased a K-01, ask them if the would send you a copy of their break-in CD. Set the K-01 to the cd setting you like best and play the break-in cd on repeat disc for at least 500 hours nonstop at very low volume (or any volume you want). I have been informed by Esoteric that every setting would require a break-in of at least 500 hours (including SACD, various filters and upsampling settings). For SACD break in, use an SACD with great dynamics. I have read that break in requires continuous play (ie: not turning off the machine) of at least 500 hours, not cummulative start and stop. I do not know if there is a scientific basis to the need for continuous play, it may be nothing more than opinion of a self proclaimed expert that has been perpetuated.
Despite what Esoteric and many others have said about the improvement with break in, I think the K-01 sounds great right out of the box, once it is warmed up. I think any improvement with break in is subtle.
Enjoy!

Guidocorona,
The break-in issue of electronics in hi fi equipment is an interesting topic. Although everyone seems to feel that break in of cables/electronics is important and results in improved sound. Most recomendations (if not all) are based on theory, not documented scientific experimentation. The results are subjective. My K-01 is fully broken-in. Does it sound better today than it did the day I bought it (once it warmed up)? I have no idea. The audible improvement, if any is subtle. I would need to do a direct A-B comparison of a broken-in unit to a non broken-in unit to detect a difference. The improvement is not dramatic and not easily detected IMHO. I am not saying breaking in equipment does not improve the sound. I am just saying, to my ears, the improvement (if there is an improvement) is subtle, On the other hand, when I upgraded my player from the X-01 D2 to the K-01, the improvement was easily detected, no A-B comaparison was required to detect and describe the improvement in sound, it was quite dramatic.

I also received an email from the retailer (audiofeil) with the same recommendation. I appreciate his help. I have heard from other's that break-in must be continuous. But, maybe Audiofeil is correct. Who knows the REAL answer? Probably no one, it is all based on theory, conjecture, opinion. I suggest that you call Esoteric, USA, and ask them directly for their recommended break-in protocol. Please let us know what they say.

By the way, I did speak with Mark at Esoteric a few times (I can't remember his last name) when I bought the unit, he sent me the break in cd, no charge. I can't remember any specifics on break-in other than it needed at least 500 hours and each filter/setting needed to be done for 500 hours, as if starting over. My unit was one of the very first sold in the U.S (I think it was the second one). They were churning them out very slowly at that time.

The Esoteric K-01 is a phenomenal cd/sacd player. I know you will enjoy it tremendously.

The Esoteric break in CD, by the way, is actually made by Isotek, Esoteric just put their name on it.

Guidocorona,
Try the G-orb at home for a few weeks before you buy. Let me know what you think after a few weeks of home testing.

I believe the new Esoteric P02/D02 has been released. Apparently, it will replace the P03/D03. It will be interesting to see how it compares to the K-01. Alex, Guidocorona, any ideas?

Alex,
I find your comment regarding digital interference interesting. You think the K01 may sound better than the much more expensive two unit P02/D02 (make that 3 units if the G-orb is included)? Can you explain in layman's terms?
Thanks

Alex, Thank you for your explanation. Have you compared the NWO-M to the Esoteric K-01? How do they compare sonically?