Equalizer in a Hi Fi system

I'll check it out.  I deleted my system profile several years back after a hack into my Audiogon account with attempted fraud.

@dgarretson  If u go on utube and search for McIntosh MQ112 Ski Fi audio. They have a video about 50 min of the MQ112. At the end of it they show u the inside. Also I do not see your system in your profile ? 

@tlcocks , thanks. I ventured into the Manley analog equalizer for home use by thinking of a Cello Palette, but stripped of the often degrading presence of OP amps. (Never heard one, however, so no harm no foul.) It is interesting that Mark Levinson, who began with the notion of hi-end audio as "a wire with gain", ended up marketing an equalizer preamp... Also, though not inexpensive, the Manley piece reflects the value proposition of pro studio gear, without the price-to-market premiums typically associated with high-end home audio. Which leads me to question of what’s inside the new McIntosh piece. I haven’t found any details. Has anyone looked inside?

@dgarretson , I have checked out your gear. Wow.  With that quality and a Manley MP in between pre and monos, I can ONLY IMAGINE what kind of insane SQ you are hearing. And with your ability to bend a curve, on such a hi fi rig, you can pretty much make most recordings sound any way you want!

I want a red SPL PQ. Sexy!💋🎶🎧

Most problems many audiophiles solve by "upgrading" at high cost, can be solved by room acoustics, tonal analog control and DSP  as the Choueiri BACCH ...

These three aspects of one solution   have something in common : they are ground in the human hearing  specifics... They are not tool you use once for the gear pieces ... They are permanent  acoustics elements integrating all the others factors in one hearing experience ...

“I’ll add that at this level of performance, a studio equalizer is a seductive and cost-effective opportunity to improve a system without endless component and cable swaps. Perhaps an endpoint.”

Exactly!

@dgarretson , right on the money! Exactly!

@tattooedtrackman , as long as they are electrically compatible with consumer hi fi, why not look at the whole field for all their diversity and choices?  Some are more appropriate than others certainly 

I have nothing to add to this interesting discussion except for another vote for the Manley Massive Passive. I purchased the latest version with switching power supply, initially to complement a custom speaker with a Purify 6.5" mid woofer and matching passive radiators that handle LF boost well enough to produce high quality bass to 30hz. Over time I’ve used all bands of the Manley with excellent results.

After break-in and experience on how to optimize its relatively complex and sometimes counter-intuitive controls, the Manley piece has become an essential component. It is a bit fiddly to tweak, and once set up properly, wants mostly to be left alone. It has a clean, open sound with tube characteristics that don’t sound "toobie." No hiss on top.

Of course it is well vetted by mastering pros-- which encouraged me to skip past lots of cheaper solutions.

I’ll add that at this level of performance, a studio equalizer is a seductive and cost-effective opportunity to improve a system without endless component and cable swaps. Perhaps an endpoint.

Esoteric K-O1x w/Rubidium clock>SOtM>AtmaSphere MP-1 or Goldpoint balanced passive>Pass XA-160.8 monos or modified BAT VK-75SE.
.

@tlcocks Question. All the Equalizers you are mentioning and now the DW Fearn VT 5 all sound very good from what u are describing. BUT aren’t they wouldn’t they be more appropriate- useful in a mastering studio professional use more then for at home audio ? As also they look very industrial more for studios than for home. 

SPL PQ does stereo link, ganged, also. $6500

if you LOVE analog studio there are many choices

If I ever need another EQ, when my CO dies, it will be DW Fearn VT-5. It’s stereo ganged (one set of controls, not two). It has adjustable master gain. It’s got passive LC circuitry with class A triode tube stages.  It’s a cool $10,900 new. 😆🎧🎶

👍

right on!  It’s a great piece, im sure. Look forward to eventually hearing it!

@mapman Thank you for showing me that. I do remember reading that in priors. 
@tlcocks Thank you for breaking that down for me. And yes that’s another reason why I also went for the McIntosh Q112 over the Schitt Max even though I did love the remote  , because the 112 really is a beautiful piece of gear and looks great with my high end gear  Much more than Schitt Max  

I will bet you MQ112 beautifies the sound of your very good gear quite nicely, depending on the needs of the discs you spin

@tattooedtrackman , so in your chain your Audio Research cdp is your dac, which converts the code read off the disc to analog waveform. The rest of your chain is analog. Your MQ112 must go in between your preamp and amp. Perfectly super set up😊

@mapman , there has been great discussion on this subject matter earlier in the thread. I believe both digital and analog have their own sets of strengths and weaknesses. See pages prior. 

Room Response

This example shows my family room response curve that represents the room’s acoustics. Every room is different in this regard. You can see peaks and dips at specific frequencies. To correct those, an equalizer has to be able to target the frequencies where the peaks/dips occur. Most graphic equalizers are designed to target pre-determined frequencies per band. That kind of equalizer can change the tone of the sound but cannot address a specific room’s acoustics which is a primary factor that distorts what you hear relative to what was recorded. A parametric equalizer can be set to address specific frequencies so that is a better solution. Then you have DSP which provides the ultimate flexibility in changing what you hear. DSP is a computer program that works with digital audio signals and. applies algorithms that can automatically determine what needs to change and then create the specific equalization and apply it to the digital audio signal to adjust it for the room. Whereas with a traditional graphic equalizer you can adjust specific frequencies but you cannot do that in a manner that properly addresses the variations that a specific rooms acoustics creates. Hope this helps to understand the differences.

@tlcocks  Audio Research Ref 750s mono amp. Audio Research Ref 6SE pre amp. Audio Research Ref 9 cdp. All Straight wire Crescendo XLR cables. 

And yes, it’s very ok to have cdp as source and analog EQ running into your preamp

All digital signals MUST get converted to analog by the time they hit your speaker wire. Now if you’re wireless…can all occur in one box. @tattooedtrackman , tell me your components and cables. By the way, I don’t know where on Audiogon to find everyone’s gear list. And I don’t know how to post mine. 

Your cdp is a digital source. That code gets converted to analog waveforms either in that machine or you stand alone dac or your preamp. Tell me your components and I’ll explain how it all works. Also what cables used also. 

@tlcocks Ty. Could u please explain what each one would be used for ? That’s the only thing I’m not understanding. And so even if my listening is only digital meaning cdp and I have an analog equalizer is that ok ? 

MQ112 is analog. DSP is digital signal processing. It’s equalization performed pre dac in the digital domain 

@tlcocks  Question. As u know I have the MQ112. What I don’t understand is when u all talk about DSP what is that. Also analog and digital equalizer. What is the difference. And what is the MQ112 ? Digital, analog ,DSP ? 

Mogami Gold XLR to RCA can be bought online and are already properly grounded to work without converter box for most matings of pro and consumer hi fi 

You CAN do XLR to RCA in many cases with custom grounded cables like my Cardas. Obviates the need for undesirable extra box or converter. 

I have had a dbx Driverack 360 for about three years. It has a Wizard that will automatically sets your parametric eq at 14 different levels, sets your roll off points for them as well. Phase control for your mains and subs, a graphic eq, adjustable slopes for your roll off points, sub-harmonic synthesizer and on and on. It has a DAC I don’t use and am embarrassed to say until a few months ago, I didn’t use the auto wizard, but instead thought my ears could set it manually. You can set delays on your subs or mains. I love it. My son also bought a similar unit and loves his too. Don’t count this one out, until you try it. Besides my phono cables,  I use all XLR cables which plugs right into it. This may dissuade some of you. There are adapters made that convert RCA to XLR. 

There’s certainly a lot of good discussion about this earlier in the thread 

Absolutely yes to using equalization for room correction but in this day and age DSP is the most powerful tool to do this best, not analog eq technology that was the best one could do practically say 10-20 years ago or so.
 

If you have a good quality system to start with, corrections for room acoustics is the missing link in most cases to reference quality sound and modern DSP tools provide a much more powerful, cost effective and flexible way to tackle room acoustics properly, though for the less technically inclined, a good old fashioned parametric equalizer could probably do the job.

To the best of my knowledge graphic equalizers with fixed ranges lack the flexibility to precisely do correct room corrections in most cases in that each room is different and graphic Equalizers lack the flexibility needed to do the job correctly.

Very happy owner of 2 Charter Oaks. Prefer them over LM. If you want more than you wish to read about why, start on page 1 😊

Had experience with Loki Max, Charter Oak , Millennia, Avalon, and now Skyline M3D

Of course he’s entitled to his opinion. I’ve said plenty already in this thread. Won’t repeat. 

Read the thread please. Yes. A lot has been said over pages. Thanks!

@tlcocks why do you say not t@stonyb3165 said? 
His opinion and have you any experience with said device?

…NOT!!

Schiit Loki Max! Is all anyone needs.

I found an MQ112 to listen to. The catch is dealer and I cannot get our schedules together before Xmas. Gotta wait. @mbmi , I also look forward to your listening impressions. Specifically if either of you MQ112 owners have any words of description for that last 10k band, as to its qualities in a boost situation, id love to hear. 10k is too low to really impart air. Unless it’s a shelf and boosts everything above it. Don’t think it’s a shelf. 

@mbmi Nice.  Love my MQ112. Can’t wait to hear your impressions of it. 

I actually am picking one up today @ 2pm. Can't wait to hook it up and have a wonderful EQ weekend. I'll report back with impressions.

@mbmi , did you say you got a new MQ112?  If so, how is it?

Nice!

I’ve been saturating since 1962 👌🏻. I use a dbx 32 band EQ…sounds wonderful!  Transparent Gen 6 cabling and power cord doesn’t hurt of course !

SkyFi is a MAJOR showroom for McIntosh products. You are lucky you live near it. 

@tlcocks   Wow That’s strange. I guess I was lucky to have acquired one. And he only had one in stock and his demo. And there was someone coming in the following day to demo the MQ112. Most likely he would have bought it. He also said that he would be getting more in stock in Jan if mine was sold. 

@tattooedtrackman i have called almost all 26 dealers within 150 miles to try to get a listen to your MQ112. No one has it. Unless I travel to the NJ area I will not be able to listen anytime soon. Sorry. Will try later on when it’s more available. 

@tlcocks Yep. I really enjoyed the video. And also the guy from McIntosh was in it with him. An hour about. 

Max distortion < 0.005. No degradation (cable dependent, of course)

Very interesting video. Good points wrt to volume, biamping, room correction and variability of recordings.