Chris,
Bruce shipped it today, I'm like a kid waiting for Christmas.
Harry
Bruce shipped it today, I'm like a kid waiting for Christmas.
Harry
Eminent Technology ET-2 Tonearm Owners
Where are you? What mods have you done ?
I have been using these ET2's for over 9 years now.
I am still figuring them out and learning from them. They can be modified in so many ways. Bruce Thigpen laid down the GENIUS behind this tonearm over 20 years ago. Some of you have owned them for over 20 years !
Tell us your secrets.
New owners – what questions do you have ?
We may even be able to coax Bruce to post here. :^)
There are so many modifications that can be done.
Dressing of the wire with this arm is critical to get optimum sonics along with proper counterweight setup.
Let me start it off.
Please tell us what you have found to be the best wire for the ET-2 tonearm ? One that is pliable/doesn’t crink or curl. Whats the best way of dressing it so it doesn’t impact the arm. Through the spindle - Over the manifold - Below manifold ? What have you come up with ?
2,371 responses Add your response
Harry - I will have a little AA ( Audiophile Anxiety) until you are able to setup and tune that Mag wand in your room - 8^0 John - look forward to your findings with the leaf springs and in comparing your modded I beam to the stock I beam. Emailed with Bruce who confirmed original I Beams were Carbon Fiber - the news ones are 3D printed with PLA. So I called a local hobby shop re: I Beams. They were out of stock but directed me to this link. "Evergreen Scale Models" scroll down 6 from the bottom. One can see the I Beams. Bruce did tell me if there was interest he could do a run on the longer I Beams. As I suspected the original ones were in part the length they are so they could fit under TT covers. Clue; he would of liked to have one more inch. Cheers Chris |
Well Harry and Chris The I-beam is just a plastic "girder" you can get at most hobby stores. I just cut it to a reasonable length, removed the spring from a stock I-beam and slid and glued it into place on the girder. There are no tracking force gradations on the girder, but I didn't use those anyway. -I just set the weights to obtain my prescribed tracking force and wiggle from there by the sound. As to how far out to go, use the least weight possible for your cartridge, and move out until the base response starts to deteriorate. This might change with adding a spring or two to the I-beam. For instance, I started with just the weight that the other weights attach to and had that way out the beam. -No go. Had to add a weight and go from there further in on the beam. -Complicated, eh? Today, I received springs and I-beams from Bruce, but I think I'll stick with the long I-beam, and add a spring or two. -Sounds like two springs will work for my low compliance cartridge, but experimenting is half the fun. I use the term antique for my system because the amps, speakers, turntable, and arm are all 20 years old. They work well if you know how to maintain them. I've learned over the years to do all my own maintenance and mods. It's amazing what you can do with a soldering iron, voltmeter, and decibel meter (Radio shack and vintage). Thanks for looking at my humble system, John |
AudioGon Alert ET2 Setups taking over the new systems category ... Pegasus ! put up some pictures. Two is a couple. Three makes it official. 8^0 John - like Harry you have a nice airy room. Not familiar with those dipole speakers. I am a fan of dipoles. Not familiar with Harry's speakers either. I gotta tell you. ...that is one long I beam you got there..... Can you provide the details on how you got it/made it - I think you said you sourced it from the hobby shop ? I have done the test going in with the most weight closest to the bearing and hearing the bass resonance/distortion in my room. if I kept going further in Bruce told me I would actually bottom the bearing out. I think you said earlier that going further out with your elongated I Beam - and it became detrimental to the music in your room ? The weight positioning in the 2nd pic looks similar to the furthest you can go on a stock I Beam - your distance must be more hard to tell. Interested to know what happened to the music to let you know you went too far out. Now that I think about it, I have never asked Bruce why he chose the size of I beam he did. Maybe due to measurements; maybe so it fit on the table. probably a combination of both ? Chris |
Good Morning Chris, Thanks for the detailed analysis. I like the analogy. I grew up in New England so I get it. I can even drive on snow! As you have no doubt gathered, even after nearly 30 years, I am still a little intimidated by my ET. I know it's not as fragile as it appears, however, I can't bring myself to atempt extensive mods. I once sheared off a stylus on a Lyra Clavis. Agreed, on not being able to share listening experiences with the friends we make here on Audiogon. I live in very rural, Western N.C. My closest audiophile friend is my brother in law who is 4 hours away. I miss the sharing part of the hobby. I'd love to hear your number 1 room with those huge towers. I'll bet you can move some air with those woofers. My sub is crossed over at about 45 - 50 hz, but I don't run the mains through the sub crossover. I run them full range. Canalis says they are only 3 db down at 39 cycles. I keep the sub volume dialed down quite a bit. I'm not looking for boom, boom, just a nice foundation. The sub is a Sunfire True that has enormous power but is not quite as tight as I would prefer. Been thinking about a Rel, but that's down the priority list. I did have to dial down the sub after my tweaks and once I got the VTA right. Yes, I have a very large room but listen fairly near field (12 to 15 ft.) so as to maintain domestic tranquility. I.e. I use half the room. I'm probably going to spring for the mag arm. Harry |
Good Morning Harry the proper thing to do if I was in audiophile mode, would be to switch my mag for the aluminum with my MC and give you direct impressions in my room. That’s not going to happen for a couple of reasons. I don’t like to fool with carts - did you know I beheaded an XV1 once ? Also I did break my loom one time - can’t blame that one on the cat. It was a hard call to make to Gene at Take Five Audio - sending him my crippled loom. Oh...and also that Aluminum Gooseneck that I sourced from NZ ....is a really tight fit. Can be a b**tch to get off. So... The best any of us can do on these virtual forums where we cannot visit each others rooms due to distance is make an educated guess. This is unfortunate because you have a nice airy room - and I would love to hear music in it. No question the biggest factor is the room. I believe your VTA changes will be smoother (not as pronounced), and you will hear more of what is actually in the recording, due to less resonance, as the Mag wand handles your cart better. As part of the adjustment (and there will be adjustments !!) I would think you may also need to change the crossover setting on the sub I see in your room picture. Like I said earlier; there are many ET2 original owners here on this thread, who are playing MC with their aluminum wands - but they have had to modify their ET2 aluminum wands extensively. Hope that helps a bit. ********************** I like analogies. Sometimes analogies are good and hit home; sometimes not so much. Those that live in the Northern United States and Canada know the difference between summer tires, all season tires, and winter tires. If the arm tubes were tires. the Aluminum is for Summer, Carbon Fiber is All Season and the Mag is for Winter duty. Canadians in Ontario and Quebec provinces are now given discounts by their insurance companies if they are using Winter tires - during Winter :^) ....... We’re still getting ripped off. ********************* Bruce’ ET2 manual is based on the original 2.0 tonearm. Aluminum Wand, Single leaf Spring - MM’s were popular. IF.... If his tonearm did not get introduced same year as CD was introduced. If vinyl sales continued in popularity. If there was a stronger business need for it. Then I believe Bruce would have come out with a revised ET 2.0 (2.5) owners manual Version 2. In it, he would definitely cover off the 2.5 version for MC carts, the three arm tubes and also the use of multiple leaf springs. Also Bruce does use direct single shot wiring as well - but IMO, due to its fragility, and the fact the person getting it needs to be anal about setup - I don’t think he would discuss it in the manual. so some thoughts over coffee. sorry for the detail (coffee kicking in) and any spelling mistakes. ********************** What frequency is your sub crossed over at Harry ? have you ever tried it in nearfield position ? Cheers Chris |
Hi Chris, I'm about to take the plunge for Bruce's mag arm but thought I'd touch base with you first. Over the last month + I have increased air pressure, moved weights out and added springs on the beam. After each of these upgrades I heard a significant improvement in almost all parameters. While I realize everything is system dependent and subjective, can you share with me what I might expect to hear going from the aluminum arm to the mag arm. By the way I now have my system up on virtual systems. Thanks, Harry |
Hi Pegasus Good to hear from you. :^) The Verdier provides for Levitation AND Braking Action - and that is why I included the analogy. Everybody thinks about the Levitation but NO ONE discusses the braking action. 8^0 All I did was report Bruce’ findings. Not sure how he set it up. IMO - John should also try it for himself. I still have the trough attached but the paddle is not connected because I do not need it. Pegasus Show us a picture of the wiring/magnet Pegasus. John I would also like to see a picture of your modded Ibeam. Cheers Chris |
Hi Chris! The magnet damping doesnt't work the way you describe it. What you describe is the magnet "levitating" of the Verdier (and others) by opposing magnets of same polarity. The proposed damping works by eddy current, the same as eddy current brakes. Basically you put a magnetic circuit very close to a electrically conducting surface. The magnetic flux crossing the surface induces a current in the conductor / surface, which creates a counteracting magnetic field. I placed a neodymium kitchen magnet (or two) on a blob of BluTak underneath and very close to the spindle. (I like my setups to be a bit messy - but reversible :-). My wires exit the arm relatively "straight" at the end of the tonearm proper, the magnet is on the opposite side of the bearing. The small round kitchen magnet has a magnetically conductive (steel?) "guiding" sleeve around the magnet that guides the back side pole to the front, so you have opposite poles in the center of the magnet vs. a circular opposite pole around. In my case it works "enough", so that the arm has no high Q lateral resonance. It's probably still slightly underdamped though. Which is IMO desirable as a trade-off. I don't have an alternative anymore, as my oil trough is leaking. |
Could someone explain how to set up that magnetic damping mechanism to replace the trough? John I discussed magnetic damping with Bruce when it came up in discussions here in 201* - I can't recall the year. Bruce was very intrigued, so much so that he tested it out himself. His findings, as far as the interaction between actual spindle and using the strongest magnets; there is just not enough movement in the spindle to produce any effect. So that is what he found. Next time you are talking to him remind him of our conversation. I did sense that he really wanted it to work as the oil is - messy. With that the experimentation involves placing magnets - same poles facing each other - on either side of where the spindle exits so it is passing through the magnets. The idea of course being that repulsion controls the movement of the spindle. My Verdier La Platine platter system works in a similar way, but on a much larger scale. Now the system with La Platine works because the actual platter which has the (top magnet) attached to the bottom of it, is moving at 33.3 rpm so you have braking action happening with the bottom magnet due to the movement. This braking action also helps to deal with the records behavior with its constantly changing grooves. I was fortunate to learn this from Mr. Verdier, before his passing. Chris |
Thanks analogluvr, I spoke to Bruce Thigpen yesterday about a number of things and was told that the Alita pump will not produce enough pressure for high pressure manifolds such as mine. The WISA's are still best for my rig unless I want a noisy shop pump or that monstrous dental pump. -Over the top and also noisy? Could someone explain how to set up that magnetic damping mechanism to replace the trough? I haven't used the trough in years, as I don't see how you would horizontally balance the arm with fluid in the trough. I think the bottom end of the FR would benefit from some kind of damping. Thanks for anyone's help on this, John |
Hi John id say you were fed a load of baloney. If the suspension was bad it will no longer play without the body hitting the record. Until that happens play away. Now obviously that doesn't take into account the state of the stylus. You could send to a retipper and have a new tip put on. Make sure you don't use a guy that replaces the cantilever as well. This will change the voicing of the cartridge. |
Hi John, "I like to have something to look forward to. Eh?" yes, for me there has to always be something there, that I am looking for, pursuing. I have found that keeping these "somethings" simple, but not easy to reach, is the secret to being sort of satisfied. Keep me from getting into trouble. re: the kitty I have always been a dog person. never had a cat. He is not allowed downstairs due to the hairs. My daughter acquired a dog and a Bengal kitty. We have been babysitting them while she travels. I show her dog called Lucky as my new RCA Victor dog on my systems page. Now this Bengal kitty; she has charisma, is independent and does not ask for much. I like those qualities. As a small kitty my daughter and I would watch her climb over my frequent play albums in rows on the floor; which was kind of cute. But no one told me she would grow to be able to jump 6 feet, and walk up the sides of walls. Chris |
Hi Chris, Thanks for your thorough answer. In fact, I've already replaced the AQ 7000 with the Kleos, and it is now my backup just in case of disaster. Luckily I have no cats, the kids are grown, and if I ever get some housekeeping, they will not be allowed in my listening room. I looked at the link for a tonearm cable as well as yours. This would be my last upgrade. I like to have something to look forward to. Eh? Cheers, John |
We have all plowed for potatoes with our vinyl Harry :^) Right now - not sure I will see the day again when I can drop $50-60 on a new LP record again. My two - 22 year old fraternal millennials are still draining me down faster than the world's oil supplies. I did not plan good for this. They have absolutely no sense of ownership, only know debt; and with the Greater Toronto Areas housing market going up 25 % a year they will never know home ownership here. Was this bad info, myth, sales pitch or what? Do suspensions really wear out even when the cartridge is not being used very much? John So searches kept bringing up the Acura sports car then I found this. AQ7000 NSX Output: 0.3 mV Tracks: 1.8g Loads: 200 Ohms- 47 kOhms Unloads: 10 Ohms Compliance: 12 Weight: 11 g Its a really nice cart. Since you asked; my two cents if I were in your shoes. You have three options I can think of. 1) contact J Carr direct and ask for his opinion. maybe send it to him for inspection and possible tune up. this will probably take a long time 2) contact one of the Cart retippers/rebuilders in the US. Have them look it over. Of course due to age they will probably recommend something. 3) start using it on a select set of records till you can determine its real condition. Listen to them with your Lyra first then do the switch. The chances of it being a time bomb is low due to who built it and you know its full history. But...... there were other reports on the internet of people losing the stylus.... 8^0 So with this info I would be inclined to put into use. Then again I am not much of collector with carts as they are wear items - I see them like tires on my cars. If I am not using them, they are sold. I have maybe 5 carts remaining. A couple MC and 3 or 4 MM's. How much would it cost to replace it with a like new cart today - that would help me to decide. My two cents. hope it helps a little. Chris |
Hi Chris, Thanks for nor banishing me from the thread. Perhaps it's just coincidence but my go to LP for set up has long been a Keith Jarrett on ECM. It is an all analog fine European pressing. Problem is it is just trio music and doesn't present the full spectrum. In my recent saga, as soon as the needle hit the RCA LSC Shaded Dog, large orchestral it was obvious something was very wrong. Just ear splitting strings and brass. I just started dialing down the VTA and everything smoothed out. In addition the low frequency foundation of the music appeared. Once I had it "right" on this LP I did some fine tuning with the ECM disc. My poor Delos must have been standing on its nose. 😩 I guess the silver lining is that the nose of my diamond took all the wear and the part that now hits the record is still mint.😅 Not only has the top smoothed out without the loss of any detail, it was like I had been missing the entire bottom half of the scale. I now have that magic "bloom" so many of us chase. Like you, I buy almost no new music. I don't find much of it matches my taste (Diana Krall excepted). I do buy some reissue 180 gm stuff, but a lot of that is trash and, contrary to claims, are not done from original master tapes. I think Chad Kasem at Analog Productions does a terrific job, albeit he is pricing himself out of my market. Rumor has it Pure Pleasure also does nice work. I have one on order. I'll let you know how it sounds. Thanks for your patience. Lord knows without your suggestions and encouragement my poor Delos might still be standing on its nose. Harry |
Hey again, I was told by a dealer that the suspension on the 20y/o AQ7000 NSX was probably shot and that it would tear up my LP's. That's why I bought the Kleos. Was this bad info, myth, sales pitch or what? Do suspensions really wear out even when the cartridge is not being used very much? Any answers from anyone in this group greatly appreciated. I think that the compliance on the Kleos is similar to the AQ7000. John |
Hi Harry re: VTA The Lyra site shows your cartridge is made with a 20 degree vertical tracking angle. One of Bruce’ findings documented in the ET2 manual. The European vertical angle cutting standard closely matches the vertical angle present on modern day phono carts. He’s done the analysis. If I brought a Lyra cart home I would grab one of my European made records that I like, set the top of the cart parallel with the record and go from there by ear. This is also appears to be the advice that John has given, and he is an actual Lyra owner. :^0 And I know we are aware of this but it’s worth repeating imo. 1) There are different vertical cut angles on records. And every time they change the cutting stylus, it is not a precise replacement. Also Logic says the Vertical cut angle on a new cutting stylus will not be exactly the same as it was before on the worn stylus. Then there is as we know, 2) Good and bad recordings of music. Some bright and highly compressed. I don’t like to fiddle with VTA too much. I have found with carts I have used that I can find an overall good spot using a European made record. Fine tuning out brightness and compression can be done using my pre-amp by either dialing the gain (separate from the volume) up or down. If its a good recording I can crank the gain up on my pre amp and set the volume from there. Also In talking with a couple studios that do vinyl in my area a few years ago, they indicated to me that if new music comes in from an artist that was recorded on better than CD quality files; these are indeed the files used for the LP usually; but one would need to check on a studio by studio basis to verify if you were really interested in that album. My digital is really good. I run off a dedicated Lenovo laptop to my ARC DAC8. I have a lot of vinyl to get through so I myself will not buy new 2017 vinyl of "new music" for an artist I "really" like, unless I can determine that the source digital files used were indeed better than cd quality 44.1 khz 16-bit. Cheers Chris |
Good morning John, Thanks for tip on the VTA gauge. Unfortunately, it won't fit with my dust cover. I think I have it dialed in correctly now. Small world. My brother-in-law lives in Mooresville, just outside of Charlotte and if it is the same ROBERT, I have, indeed, been to his house/shop. It is on the lake. Nice guy and very knowledgeable. Harry |
Hi John Welcome to the thread. I would also like to try the direct wiring harness, but don't know where to look for one. Any links available? Pic 7 on my virtual system page shows one of my looms made for me years ago by Take Five Audio using WBT Next Gen Plugs. Here is the link to their information "Take Five Audio" Gene the owner, has made multiple looms for me and I have put friends onto him as well so that's one option for you. You would also be getting a 30% dollar exchange discount and probably free shipping. Just tell them you are inquiring into one of those ET looms you made for Chris. He will outline what parts are available, choice of wiring and even do a burn in for you. He does a nice tapered approach at the plug end which gives a lot of strength. Cheers Chris |
I've seen the AQ7000 for sale for $300, and I couldn't let it go for that. I have an interesting story about that cartridge. After a few years use, the stylus went missing from the cantilever. -Don't know what happened, but when I let AQ know about it, they offered to send me their demonstrator which was barely used from their demo room in exchange for my worthless mess. I respect that company greatly for that. Anyway, it's my backup, and I have trouble hearing an improvement with my Lyra Kleos. You know that Jon Carr designed both. So, sorry no interest here. I have an Alita pump on order and will report back my impressions. Cheers, John |
Hey Harry, I found that it's easiest to set VTA with the Lyra cartridges by starting with the top of the cartridge parallel to the record surface and wiggle up and down from there by ear. -The little gauge that Bruce sells helps with very small adjustments and only $80. Did you ever deal with Taylor House up in NC? Regards and thanks for reading my post, John |
Hi, John, Welcome aboard. You are definitely at the right place. Like you I've owned my ET II for over 25 years. It's hard to beat. The guys on this thread have vast experience with our arm and are quick to give great advice that really works. No snake oil here. I think, however, they are ready to throw me off this thread. I can't believe that after 40 years as a wanna-be audiophile I was so stupid as to have my VTA so far off. (See my last post.) I'm really embarrassed 😡 Don't know if Chris will ever forgive me. Cheers, Harry |
Well I guess it's time for me to stop lurking and ask some questions. I've enjoyed my ET2 for 25 years or more and rediscovered this thread last night. I have a SOTA nova table with cosmos armboard made for the ET2. This has metal contact points for the base tripod and works well. I recently upgraded to the aluminum base, joint and VTA display. Running two WISA pumps out of phase and getting 7psi on my pressure gauge, with two diy surge tanks in series, and a small surge tank made from a plastic gas tank for R/C planes located very close to the arm. This last tweak hasn't been mentioned here but I think it helps. My I-beam is from the hobby store as well (twice the usual length) and allows me to place very little weight way out the beam. (There are limits I discovered.) My manifold is the high pressure one, tried with a shop vac and pressure regulator up to 30 psi, but the quieter background wasn't worth the noise in the basement. So, I'm back to the WISA's now. My cartridge is the Lyra Kleos recently replacing a still functioning 20 y/o Audioquest 7000 NSX. Arm is the magnesium one. I've learned a lot in catching up on this thread and really appreciate the dedication and enthusiasm of this group for the ET-2. -I thought I was the last fanatic out there. My plan is to try the double and/or triple leaf springs, maybe go for the Alita pump and start using the regulator again. I would also like to try the direct wiring harness, but don't know where to look for one. Any links available? Thanks for a great discussion and cheers, John |
Hi Chris, This is indeed a strange hobby. And one never knows when the most seemingly innocuous comment by a fellow audiophile will bring a breakthrough. Such is the case with your last description of listening preferences. I have a fair collection of classical music. Mostly stuff an audiophile was supposed to own. Some shaded dogs, Chesky reissue shaded dogs and other audiophile "records to die for". But never much enjoyed listening to them. After your latest post I figured I'd throw on a shaded dog. First one was Fiedler and Boston Pops, "Fiddle Faddle." Not exactly classical but close enough. It was awful. Just ear bleeding bright. "Oh, no, am I back to the drawing board?" Then I thought, wait a minute this is a shaded dog, it should not sound like this. Let's play with VTA. Amazing! Lyra says start with arm parallel to record and adjust from there, but with the tapered ET arm wands parallel is difficult to eyeball. Well, I started adjusting and voilà I had been almost 5 marks too post high on the VTA gauge. After proper adjustment all the excessive brightness and tizzyness disappeared and everything became warmer and smoother without loss of my coveted detail. Switched over to some of the records I rely on for set up an they were much improved also. I can't believe I was so far off on VTA. This helps explain why I had such a hard time choosing between two and three springs. Well excuse me while I go listen to some shaded dogs. Thanks again, Harry. |
"I have very eclectic taste including pop, country, folk, blues, but mostly jazz and almost no hard rock. Preferred listening is jazz quartets and trios and female vocals. I am a huge Keth Jarrett and Bill Evans fan. Early Miles and Coultrane. I don’t do drugs so I can’t follow their later stuff" Hi Harry I have a peculiar - sort of abnormal? - reaction to Jazz. It relaxes me...maybe a little too much. I tend to settle back in my chair..arms lay at rest at my sides. My right arm perilously close and within reach of whatever beverage has been placed there. I tend to get anxious when I am not doing anything, relaxing... so unless I am doing something on the computer and listening to back ground music, depending on what the beverage is ... it can get a little silly for me. I prefer full bore orchestral...I played trombone for a number of years...not as cool as the drums, trumpet or sax..but not as bad as the tuba. I stopped playing. Anyway those influential years put my bias on the bass clef. With Orchestral Classical if a good performance, my arms/hands will start moving....waving ...in front of me. If a really good performance I stand up and continue waving my arms. General Audiophile Tip Make sure your wife catches you during one of these moments, she will start to worry a little bit for you; if she still cares about you...:^( You will gain audio hobby leverage. Audiophile Points. Anyway - breaks are needed between sides for refreshment. I also don’t and never done drugs either unless one considers alcohol a drug. Prefer natural endorphins. Cheers Chris |
bh80231 I indeed have 2 aluminum wands and yes, running LOMC’s - Ortofon Quintet Black (boron cantilever), Ortofon Quintet Mono, and an AT33PTG/II.bh80231 I stripped my aluminium wand of both the inside foam and also the heat shrink on the tube - at the time I was running both a low compliance Denon 103 Garrott ( boron cantilever/weinz tip ) and low to medium compliance Carnegie Model One. TT was Sota Star vacuum at that time. In both instances I got a lighter tonal balance but with more transparency. Overall I preferred the increased transparency over the slight lightening of balance. The other mod I did was to remove the teflon insert from the headshell part of the tube and replace it with a carbon fibre insert pressed and bonded in. This was worthwhile as well. |
Bh80231 Bh In the past I experimented a lot with the I Beam, PSI - multiple pumps, Wiring, and different carts. I also own all three armwands. So I exchanged the armwands. I've never run the aluminum & CF tubes naked that I can recall. My take is Bruce put it in the tube for a reason; but the tonearm is very easy to tweak, so I would try and use it whichever way it works in ones system, understanding that it is resonating more without the foam. Thinking about it, the aluminum wand may work better without foam, in a cart like the Sonus Blue Gold - Dynamic Compliance: 50 x 10-6cm/Dyne. I have run that cart on the ET2 with no problem at all but the foam was in the aluminum wand. Have you tried running your tonearm with the highest vertical inertia - the least amount of weight possible on the I beam ? |
Hi Harry, Looking at the new springs currently... I made same assumption on the Alita and Bruce clarified from the product website:
Look at the pressure versus flow graph, at lower flow rates the pressure goes up, the Alita AL-15 usually measures about 3.5 - 4.0 when operating a tonearm.it is turning out to be more than strong enough. 👍 |
Chris, Thanks for in depth info on wands. Still mulling this issue. It seems the cf would work with a wider range of cartridges but the mag is a closer match to my Delos. I'm back to two springs with no damping. In the process I also checked/reset all alignment-azimuth, overhang, leveling, vtf, etc. Last night I was getting the best sound I have heard from my rig. BH, I'm on my way to the Lowe's audiophile aisle :). While I don't have the knowledge or expertise of others on this thread, for what it's worth, I can highly recommend you try the double and triple spring planks. They are pretty inexpensive and make a large change to the sound. I found triple springs too strident and the double just right, but with damping the triple might work for someone else. Bruce recommended that Alita pump to me a while back too, but I am confused by the recommendation. The Alita A15 only puts out 1.4 psi and the ET II manual recommends a minumum of 2.5 with the low pressure manifold. I am running a Medo in a quiet box with a fan for cooling. The Medo is rated at 7.11 psi. It says it only has a 60 minute duty cycle but with the plate fan on the quiet box I am listening for hours with no problems. Lots of Medo pumps on EBay. Cheers, Harry |
Hi Chris, yes, had not enabled the "watch" on this thread, so was oblivious until recently it had restarted. I indeed have 2 aluminum wands and yes, running LOMC's - Ortofon Quintet Black (boron cantilever), Ortofon Quintet Mono, and an AT33PTG/II. I have had different wraps on them in the past, and stuffed foam inside too (what is your stance on that?), but they are naked now. I have ordered my own sheet of CF wrap though, so am going to give that a try. I do still have the original single leaf, but seeing your post I did write (again) to Bruce yesterday, so might change that up too. And I am shamed into knowing I need to clean the manifold too! Although I do have dual inline filters and dry Colorado air in my favor. Oh, and out of order, but Bruce recommended this pump to me a few months back, so am running this now, is performing well, very quiet. |
Bruce’s description of the mag and cf, it appears the compliance of my Delos is a better match for the mag. Do you agree? Harry here is the ET2 Wand Guideline and some thoughts. Guideline Aluminum Wand ----------->Carbon Fiber Wand ----------->Magnesium Wand Carts High Compliance ----- ->Medium to Low Compliance ---> Low Compliance So. If you only had one wand and play Higher compliance MM ...........................................Go with Aluminum Wand Higher compliance MM / med - low compliance MC .......Go with the CF Wand Only use low compliance MC. ......................Go with the Magnesium Wand The CF wand is the best all around wand. If you send Bruce an extra aluminum wand, he will wrap it for you and convert it to a Carbon Fiber wand. *************************************** With that as we know this vinyl is all about resonances and vibrations. Anyone that is using a low compliance MC with the aluminum wand has done "mods", "tweaks" in their system chain somewhere to make it work. If you go through this thread you know that members like Frogman, Richard Krebs Dover at the top of head, plus others, all did extensive mods to their ET2 aluminum wands / and to run lower compliance MC among other carts. In the picture that BH’ attached - Hi BH’... been a long time - nice setup and nice avatar :^) He appears to be using an aluminum wand with an MC ? It is hard to tell if it has the CF wrap on it. Are you still using the single leaf spring BH? When I used an MM on the Magnesium wand it was absolutely strident. Even though the cart sounded fine with the aluminum and CF wands. This tells me the Mag wand really is for Low compliance and maybe a point of no return :^0 *********************************** So Logic tells us that if someone made a Low compliance MC work with their Aluminum Wand; should they then introduce the Big Dog Mag wand; they most certainly will be making changes to their system, even though the guidelines say they (Low Compliance MC/ Mag Wand) are the best combo together. Make sense ? ****************************** the single shot wiring deserves a separate discussion. It is filled with frustrations in fighting physics, but the reward is worth it in the end. The key is not to fight physics. Braiding wires is great for dealing with interference, but not so good in allowing the ET2 to have freeplay. The solution you go with will be determined by your turntable plinth style. You can take this one to the bank. I found a compromise works well. We can discuss more. Harry - some Canadian perspective for you on the cost of that Mag armwand. $575 US dollars is now $775 Cdn. dollars ....... :^( The differences between the Aluminum and Mag wands for readers. Click on this link. https://goo.gl/photos/Rjcvbjfrms23zc1M6 Cheers Chris |
No worries vpi, Those are from Lowe's Hardware, in the audiophile aisle... ;) They are screw protector caps, made to put on the end of screws to keep from catching or cutting yourself, you can find all colors, try Ace, Home Depot, Lowes... usually in the speciality hardware section. Regarding troughs, mine had the little end cap fall out and subsequently disappeared, so I have no "end" for mine currently, need to craft a fix for that. |
Bh80201, Thanks for chiming in. I need all the help I can get. Nice rig by the way. Chris, I can do a very short run. My TT sits immediately to the left of the CAT and one of the mods Straightwire did to the CAT was to move the phono in plugs from the back to the left side. After reading your last I swapped out interconnect. I'm now using a 1 ft pure silver interconnect. So total distance from cartridge to CAT is about 2 ft. The change is subtle, if any. Of course I'm still going through the din plug at the goose neck and the RCA's at the phono box. I'm a little intimidated by running hot rod from the cartridge to the CAT. As you observed regarding your feline, that presents a lot of opportunity to snag that fragile litz. I'm getting closer to springing for a new wand. After reading Bruce's description of the mag and cf, it appears the compliance of my Delos is a better match for the mag. Do you agree? Not too concerned about wife complaints. As long as it gets in the house unseen she will never notice. With the exception of power amp and speakers my whole rig is in a large closet which she never enters. She is definitely a non-audiophile. She thinks music is for background noise. Thanks, Harry |
I have re-wired avoiding my internal ET2 harness as well. I have been advised by a rewiring guy that you can realize up to 3db gain by ridding of those connections within the tonearm, not sure it is that extreme, but was noticeable for sure! I picked up a second wand from Bruce so I can more easily swap cartridges, and I made both a Cardas and Litz loom, seen in these pics, had to arrange gear as mentioned above to keep them short! Speed has indeed been an issue, but am making progress on that front too! ;) |
hah hah.... :^) I like Bob Newhart. I like the "STOP IT" scene. I feel some of today's millennials need some of this "type" of guidance. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ow0lr63y4Mw so I am biased - still have two of them (millennials) - still living in my house. I am very old school. ********************** I have this blue-eyed cockroach crawling my grooves. Ladies don't like to see cockroaches, but they (cockroaches) are very healthy to eat. Harry, I hope we don't get you in trouble with your wife, with this cockroach, whose origins can be traced to this thread. So has she commented on ole Blue Eyes yet ? If she noticed the cockroach, then she will also probably notice a new shiny black Mag armtube. pic 35 on my virtual system page shows the differences between the two. But bringing in an armtube is fairly safe I think. It's kind of small overall and hard to tell how much it cost by looking at it. Some years ago when I got the Mag wand, I was talking to Bruce about how he makes the Mag wand, and it is not an easy process to make it at all. If not done right the cast gets ruined. Problem is some records sound amazing with three springs and others are best with two springs, even when I play with VTA. As advised, however, I can tell resolution has improved because I can now hear the VTA adjustments. Assuming ones platter keeps proper speed and no other changes. The actual record becomes the real moving target. Different record plants, different vertical cut angles. Your post comments support this. *************************** re: My question about your wiring My Sp11 is positioned immediately to the side of the ET 2.5. A happy face wire smile between them. This allows for the shortest wiring length. There is a little over 2 feet of wiring - unfortunately the phono inputs are on the wrong side (farthest) side of the preamp. So I had to do what I have called James Bond type manoeuvring, with the wiring, to get it quiet. Not encouraging anything here; but with a little over a meter of wiring you are a candidate for the straight shot unshielded wiring. The factory wiring ET2 setup on tables like VPI and SOTA had to be done that way - to help sell product. So just something to consider. What does a straight shot buy you? The effect of this change would be like replacing a V6 engine with a V8, in the same car, but with no gas penalty. The music will sound like it's coming from a bigger pipe at you. But, and this is a big but...the wiring will not be Pussy Cat proof. 8^0 |
Hi Chris, Not sure exactly the distance your are asking about. From where the tonearm wires exit the bearing spindle to the VPI clear plexiglass phono block is probably about 6 inches. Then I have one meter interconnect cables with RCA's going from the phono box to the CAT. I went back to three springs, but this time with the two blu tac balls, one on each bolt holding the cartridge. (Yep, I weighed them to get them the same.) Now I have a blue eyed cockroach sitting on my records:). (But then if I was interested in cosmetics I probably wouldn't own an ET II in the first place) Cosmetics aside, its not exactly what I am looking for. I am having this internal battle between detail and smoothness. With the current arm tube I think I need two and 1/2 springs. Problem is some records sound amazing with three springs and others are best with two springs, even when I play with VTA. As advised, however, I can tell resolution has improved because I can now hear the VTA adjustments. Going to do some more swapping, listening and comparing but, in the end I think I will have to spring for the Magnesium arm tube. $575.00 just seems like a lot for an arm tube. Then again, we're not exactly dealing with a Pioneer rack system either. Cheers, Harry P.S. I don't know if you are old enough to remember, one of my favorite comedians, Bob Newhart, but reading over our mutual posts to your forum I couldn't help but hear a non-audiophile Bob Newhart do a parody of our conversations. This is a little far afield of your forum but I am sure the ET enthusiasts on the form will appreciate. "Harry: Ok, Chris, let me see if I have this straight. I need to use double or triple springs on my plank? Chris: Yes, Harry, with two or three springs your plank will be stiffer for greater enjoyment of the music. Harry: Well, I tried the triple springs and they made my plank too stiff which is causing pain. It is too sharp. Chris: Yes I was afraid of that. You might want to consider going back to two springs which will make it a little less stiff and may relieve the pain. Or you can try getting some sticky blue stuff called blu tac. You make two small blue balls from the blu tac and put one on each of your bolts. But you have to weigh your blue balls to make sure they are the same weight or your needle won't stay in the groove. And we all know what happens when the needle won't stay in the groove. Not good for anyone. Harry: Ok, Chris, got two blue balls on my wand and three springs on my plank and it works pretty well. Just for variety, however, I'm going to check out my plank with two springs again. I have this blue-eyed cockroach crawling my grooves." |
This is good Harry. "With three springs I found I was not relaxing, shoulders pulled up tight like listening to a bad CD. When I went back to two springs I noticed everything (including me ) was much more relaxed. " This is part of the reason I said you won't be imagining, and I believe one of the reasons Bruce said the triple leaf spring "would not last". Curious to know how much distance there is from the joint that holds the armtube, aka the "Gooseneck" , name courtesy of our NZ ET2 owners; to where the phono wires plug into your CAT SL-1. I mean if you went a direct route from the Gooseneck to the CAT SL-1; not including the distance going through the air bearing spindle. thanks. Chris |
Hello Chris, My post from yesterday was mistaken. I adjusted VTA post up to get more clarity on the Way Out West album. In the interim, I have gone back to two springs and after considerable listening I'm pretty happy with what I'm getting. Really haven't lost detail with two springs but it is not as bright. It is sometimes easy to mistake bright for detail. With three springs I found I was not relaxing, shoulders pulled up tight like listening to a bad CD. When I went back to two springs I noticed everything (including me ) was much more relaxed. But cymbals still shimmer. I'm going to keep my eyes open for a Carbon fiber or Mag arm tube but for now I'm quite pleased with what I'm hearing. Happy Listening, Harry |