Ah hah ! I just found your discussion post about the Dynavector tracking force - I too have been using the 1T for several years and now want to try a different flavor of cartridge altogether. I've had many jaw-dropping moments with the T, but finally I never grew to love it - accurate and precise, yes; musical ? maybe not so much.
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After 50 hours, it was sounding pretty good, but for $4000 I thought it could do better. I checked the VTA again, and found I had less measured IM by having the arm going "downhill" from the pivot point, not parallel to the surface of the record. Subjectively, the slight harshness in the high end was gone! A difficult to reproduce direct to disk jazz record sounded as close to "live" as I think you can get with an LP recording. For this sample anyway, the optimum tracking force is 2.0 gram, right in the middle of the recommended range. |
Br2600, you've done just fine! Good ears over dogma anyday.
Enjoy! |
I would START evaluating every cartridge at 47K if this is possible (or without supplementary loading resistors with a step-up transformer), and work my way down in binary increments (halving the load with each successive step).
You may well find some LOMC cartridges are fine at 47K.
I would NEVER advocate a universal loading rule however (as Raul states). If this was truly what HP recommended, it is misguided thinking.
Note that loading is contextual to not only the cartridge (rolling off ultrasonics), but to your phono stage (how it reacts to ultrasonics by ringing and misbehaving in other ways). There's a recent thread where Ralph (Atma-sphere) comments on this.
As usual, the correct answer is: "it depends".
Case in point: I've loaded my XV-1s with good results, anywhere from 35 ohms, to 47K - depending on the RIAA stage in use.
On my Atma-sphere MP-1, 47K is fine.
Treat loading the way you would tracking force and anti-skate. Apply just enough, and not too much. Too much of any of these parameters squashes dynamics, and too little is edgy (a necessary generalization to keep this post brief).
If the numbers tell you one thing, and your ears tell you another, guess which "instrument" you should trust.
Cheers,
Thom @ Galibier |
What Raul said ...
Cheers,
Thom @ Galibier (in an uncharacteristically short post) |
I installed a Dynavector XV-1S in a Well Tempered Arm and after reading the comments here about tracking heavy I first tried it at 2.4 grams with poor results. The highs were muddy and I could not make the specified 30 db separation, even after careful azimuth adjustment.
After trying 1.8 and 2.2 grams, I found that this particular cartridge sample and tone arm combination sounded best at 2.0 grams. I was also able to make 30 db separation at 1 KHz, L into R and R into L. at the 2.0 gram setting.
After I have 50 hours on the cartridge, I'm going to teak the adjustments again and see if I get any improvement in separation, IM distortion and overall subjective sound. |
Dear Audioblazer: You already have posts ( including mine ) where the persons share their experiences at high VTF.
In the other side I think that no one ( but HP. ) in his " sane/healthy " judge can set the VTF so high for everyday play when not only the coils are not centered with a degradation in the cartridge performance but where the cartridge suspension can be damage and where at that high VTF the LP's can be damage too.
So IMHO it is not " surprising " like you say but more : XV-1s owners with knowledge and care on the VTF subject.
Regards and enjoy the music,
Raul. |
I had an old xv1 and tried the HP 2.6-2.7g tracking. There was nothing special about the sound so I dropped the vtf back to 1.9+g
from experience the XV1s rides best between 1.95-2.1g with
minimal antiskate. Almost no antiskate. I set mine approx 0.6g |
Surprisingly nobody seems to load it higher than the recommended tracking force. I wonder what happen to those who claim it sounds better at 2.5-2.6g. It would be interesting to hear abt their experience.
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Good say it, Downunder.
Raul. |
HP is full of crap and he does not spend his hard earned money on cartridges, we do.
I have owned XV-1 for around 9 years and 2.5 gms of above does not give any sonic benedfit. In my system I have always found between 2 and 2.1gms sounds best.
cheers |
Nada to the HP. With all the Welltempereds I've had, the xv-1s is best at 1.9
Also, try loading your cartridge, with whatever tracking force you use, with a 47k load and see what happens...
end of story.
Hey, we can't all get it right all the time.... |
I use the 1s and 1t with a Dynavector 507 Mk. II and a Triplanar.
Optimum tracking is very similiar at 2.08-2.16 grams.
However, the 1t needs to be loaded at a significantly higher value.
IMO
Dealer disclosure |
I used to have XV-1s and was tracking it at 2.1g. The sound was great. I also tried HP's recommended 2.5g, 2.6g, and 2.7g. I didn't hear any sonic benefit. But the cartridge almost bottomed out at 2.7g. The bottom part of the cartridge almost touched the record. It looked ugly. I think 2.0 or 2.1 works great. |
Dear Audioblazer: This is an " old " subject. My comments as an owner of that cartridge are:
IMHO and with respect HP is totally wrong as he is with his rule to set load impedance on every LOMC cartridge on 47K value, it seems to me that this person has very low knowledge with the cartridge subject.
In the other side this is what Dynavector Technical Director email me on the VTF subject:
De: Webmaster [mailto:info@dynavector.co.jp]
>Enviado el: Martes, 30 de Agosto de 2005 07:25 p.m.
>Para: Ra ? Iruegas
>Asunto: Re: XV-1
Dear Raul,
>
>Thank you for your using DV products.
>
>DV cartridges can secure sufficient performance when using
>recommended tracking force motioned on the manual. It is true that
>Higher tracking force can improve the tracking performance at the
>high amplitude track of the record but too higher tracking force
>might cause the problem with frequency response as upper side of the
>damper rubber is compressed by the coil bobbin and downside of the
>damper rubber is detach from the coil bobbin.
>
>Tracking ability of the XV-1s is slightly changed by room
>temperature. It means that when you use the cartridge in cold room,
>you should increase tracking force a little than the XV-1s
>recommended tracking force of 2.0g, when you use cartridge in hot
>room you should decrease tracking force.
>
>Hopefully it could be helpful to you.
>
>
>Best regards,
>
>Masaaki Sasa
>Sales and Technical director
>Dynavector Systems Ltd.
I use mine inside Dynavector limits and performs great. Yes, I try it up out of that VTF limit with a sound degradation.
Regards and enjoy the music,
Raul. |
I run mine around 1.95g and it sounds best there on a dynavector 507 arm. |
It may be ok to run with VTF set a bit high for the first 100 hours or so to help breakin the cart. I agree with Philb7777 and I would not run my XV-1s above what Dyna recommends. I prefer to run mine around 1.85 because I find the dynamics much better in my system with that VTF. Any thing below that and the bass loses punch, above about 1.9 I find the bass to become exaggerated in my system. YMMV. I also use no AS at all, but I am using a Triplanar so it doesn't surprise me that our ranges are a little different by a few tenths of a gram.
I have enjoyed my xv-1s for several years. Hope you get as much enjoyment from this cart as I have. |
I have been running my XV-1s at 2.174g. I found the sound in my system to be lean toward the brittle side at anything below 2.1g and above 2.3g think and ill-defined bass. I tried the weight up to 2.5-2.7g and just didn't get any sonic benefit. For what it's worth, I asked Mike at Toffco (importer of dyna carts) and he clearly stated that he wouldn't recommend the higher tracking force weights for causing issues with the suspension over the long haul. He said it was a common question based on HP quotes and he called Dyna in Japan and this was the answer he received. |
