Paul by any chance did you have the Rel still connected. I ask because I have the Rel B3 and found the combo to sound the best when I had the crossover set 34hz. Any higher and with a few recordings the bass is overwhelming. For me I use the sub to add what the C1's can't physically reproduce while others want to add to what is already there.
Dynaudio c1 signature
Hi...im interested witch music instruments does this speaker performs most natural..correct...lifelike...tnx
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Hi Paul Congratulations on the C1's. Have you filled the stands? I have the rear post about 3/4 filled with sand and it tightens up everything from the lows to the highs. Hey with the originals you don't have to worry about the emblems LOL!! BTW I received my new Dynaudio emblems for my stand 4's about a month ago - looks great. |
10-17-12: Nvp Workable link http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?rspkr&1316578197 |
Hi guys, I just wanted to let you know that I've bought a pair of Dynaudio C1 mk1 speakers. You can find my first impression here: rspkr&1316578197>Dynaudio C1 mk1 vs. Focal Utopia Micro Be Kind regards, Paul |
Abe sorry for late reply...i havent heard the C1mk2 so cant tell you nothing significant you better talk with the Xti16 cuz hes got the pair...i will probably end with new focus 380 becuz i think that will be overall better speaker choice for me but my dealer told me c1s are little tricky to position them perfectly in the room but i dont think its a major problem...and as Xti16 said you should get them away from the back walls...if you are not a bass freak i think c1 will be excellent choice for you...my sweet problem for now will be finding adequate amplification for focus 380...im aiming on ASR emitter 1 exclusive and i contacted dynaudio about that...Mr. Ronald Hoffmann answered that ASR will be a good match with dyns so im seriously aiming on that combination...i just have to see how the speakers will interact with my room acoustics...i know im not much of help but you as i said Xti16 will answer you alot of questions about this fine speakers...my regards... |
yes dyn stands are double cheaper than SF stand 4-5 times cheaper than Focal...diablo utopia with stands are 3k euros expensiver than c1...does it makes better...no...i think their quest for berillyum tweeter was expensive so now they are overpricing their speakers to get the cash back(manny cash goes on focals luxtry looks also) im not sayin that focal is trash...i like focal...but i would rather go on esotar2 and dyns sound more full bodied...less detailed...more real by my taste...every speaker driver etc. has its weakness and good things so you cant tell witch is best speaker...you can only choose witch sounds best to your ears...i doubt i would be not satisfied with B&W805D or diablo or dyns or SF guarneri M...but dyns are priced somwhere in middle...and its not 2forward or laid back speaker...just in middle...and i think i will manage to push more volume with dyns without problems(not to mention barr response)...Nvp ive heard vivids are bang 4 the buck regarding the sound...manny liked vivid more then dyns on forums...but vivid bookshelf is little shy on bass and got strange looks for many...i dont have vivid dealer in croatia...but i was interested to hear them...i think they are made in south africa... |
Xti16, of course the stands will not produce an audible ring when one listens to music. However, one will be able to pick up some standing waves, i.e. ring, when placing a stethoscope on one of the stands - it is an empty pipe ... That is why I said the comment in the article was nonsense. Raindog031, the Dynaudio Stand 4 are very good stands which also happened to be very earthly priced (especially when compared to the Focal stands for example). I do not think there was anything that really needed to be improved about them. On a different matter, last week I have seen on www.audiomarkt.de a pair of C1 mk2 with stands for 4300 euros, there were also a few mk1s for sell. Of course, I am not the one who sells any of those speakers :). Also, sorry for diverting, but I was wondering whether any of you guys have had the chance to listen the Vapor Cirrus and/or Vivid Audio B1 or V1 speakers. I keep reading that these speakers are the best "monitors" available. Keep us posted Raindog031! Paul |
Raindog Haven't heard back again from the Distributor regarding if that is the only change. Anyhow my black/chrome stands are staying. They just look too d@mn good with the Signatures. Paul - the stand4 doesn't ring when empty due to the way the bases are constructed. At least that is what I have found. When filled they give a more forward presentation with cleaner and tighter tones. That is why I have mine only partially filled. Personally I'm not a fan of too forward or I may have considered something more like the S25's. |
so Xti did the dealer said bout differeences in new stands...are they tehnicaly "better" then old stand4...Paul i will agree with your observation of stereophiles reviewer but anyone who has logic thinking should reject his silly statment bout that...still dont understand why he diddnt fill stands with the sand....he was reviewing delicate speakers... |
Hi guys, I was not ware of the new stands without the loge. That is good enough for me. (When I have demoed the C1 mk2s the dealer had the old stands and I did not like the fact that the speakers had a different logo that the stands. I told the dealer that such inconsistencies should not happen at this price point. He probably was not aware either of the new stands without a logo as the only things he said was "well...") Raindog031, I remember reading the remark in Stereophile about the empty stands and thinking it was a very silly one (to me it sounded more like negative advertisement than a warning for the users). The reviewer should have filled the stands instead of making that remarked. Of course, an empty pipe will ring. Best wishes, Paul |
Actually the Stand4 is only 3 or 4 years old. They replaced the Stand2. The difference is the Stand4 has a larger opening at the bottom to make it easier to fill with sand. When I first got my original C1's my dealer brought over the Stand2 and when I asked how to fill them he looked at me with a grin and said "grain by grain" (because the opening was tiny) and gave me his Stand4. As far as filling the tubes I highly recommend using the foam insert for the top of the speaker and setting the speaker in it upside down. Leave the grills on and use an old towel or sheet to cover the speaker because if accidentally spill some sand you don't want it to get stuck to the Esotar2 tweeter. Now if that should happen crumple up some scotch tape and get it off that way. DO NOT use electrical or duct tape because to is tooooooooo sticky and you may ruin the tweeter. I should be getting an answer tomorrow from Dynaudio in the USA |
Raindog If you get the C1's get the stand 4. You mount the tubes to the speaker plinth without using the top plate. Then before you put on the bottom plate is when you fill them. I have only my rear tube filled 2/3rds with sand. Yes you do get a big long baggie to put the sand in since you can also run the speaker cable through the back tube. As far as I know there is no new logo for the stands. I'll be contacting the North American distributor next week for something else so I'll ask the question again. |
my dealer has stand3 and stand4...i dont care much about speaker looks, stand looks or the logo...my only consern is the speaker SOUND...so when we speak bout stands i only worry bout they being "lively" as J.A. from the stereophile wrote in the measurements(i think that can be resolved to fill them with the sand if i get it right)...the speaker should be greatly transparrent if all treated well...what i would like to know is there difference in material or design in stands with new and old logo tnx... |
Paul I requested new logos (from the distributor) the day I got mine. Not sure if I mentioned it but I was able to get the discontinued black/chrome Stand4 NOS. They look killer with the Mocha C1's. But remember that stand is for several models and only the new Focus and Confidence has the new logos. The Coutours and Excites still have the old logo. Stricken I agree 100%. Personally I would not delay a purchase because of a logo. I could take it off but it does not look bad. |
OK Xti16, so I have remembered correctly. Given the price of the speakers I find this very strange. I would definitively be unhappy with such a situation and most likely postpone the purchase of the stands till Dynaudio updates them (or try to get the dealer to replace the old stands with the new ones when Dynaudio updates them). |
Paul You are right where I haven't heard that many speakers. It was a short speaker shopping trip for me once I heard the Dyns. In fact the dealer that had the SF picked up the Dynaudio line AFTER I got my originals. When I got the Signatures I found out he also just picked up the Focal line. He is about an hour away but since I am very happy with my Dyns I have no intention of even demoing them (unless I'm in the area). Raindog Once again both the MKI and MKII are fantastic. The difference is when you turn up the MKI's they get much better where the MKII's sound better at lower volumes but keep sounding that good as you turn them up. So if you have a dealer that has both I highly recommend going and seriously listen to both side by side at all volumes. Let YOUR ears decide. |
Xti16, I was afraid my response will upset you. I am glad it did not as that was not my intention. We both like very much the C1s speakers, plus we are among the very few here who recommend quality watts over quantity for them. Raindog031, sorry for the typos. English is not my first language. I hope it is/was not that hard to understand what I meant to write ("if you are unlike" should be "if you are unlucky", and "worths case" should be "worse case"). Regarding the original question, IMO if one succeeds to sort out the bass (to not draw attention to itself) there are very few speakers (if any) that sound more natural that the C1s. Except of the distortion effects of guitars which might sound a bit soft (but this depends also on the amp used) most instruments will be rendered very very naturally. |
i also dont like overly detailed speakers...after a half hour they tire me...just want relax by the music and not think bout anything...regarding the price...i called my dealer and i can get c1mk2 and stand new for about 5500eu (i get good discount if i pay expensiver gear with cash) so as alternative i would take used c1 mk1 if its in range of 3500eu max nothing more(if it has no guarantee)...i think thats somewhat logic thinking... |
Xti16, just because you did not heard other speaker that were more transparent than the C1 mk2 it does not mean that there aren't any. For example, all Focal Utopia monitor models (the Diablos probably have twice as much detail than the C1 mk2), B&W 805S/D, Wilson Duettes (and the list can go on and on..). I am not saying that when listening the previously mentioned speakers you hear details that you can not hear via the C1 mk1 or mk2 speakers, just that via the C1s those little things are lest obvious - one needs to pay much more attention to the music in order to become fully aware of those details. I have listen all models (mk1 and mk2) in the Confidence line often quite at lengths and they all have this characteristic. The strengths of all these Dyns is in the very natural and seductive midrange and powerful bass. Also, I would say that you are a bit biased here as it seems to me that you went directly from the C1 mk1 to the mk2 without much search (I apologize in advance if I am wrong.)Guilty as charged. I'll admit I heard the B&W 805s and SF Creamora Auditor M ONLY before deciding on the C1 MK I. For me it was one of those things once I heard the C1 MK I I knew my speaker search was over. I have to have the right mid range and top end sparkle which the Dyn's do great. I'll also admit I bought the Signatures before hearing them (gasp). Glad I did and would do again now knowing how they sound. Remember this thread started by asking a question regarding the sound of the C1 Signature. As far as price I agree the MK I is a fantastic bargain. Everyone has their own taste. For me I love the C1 and the Special 25's - well I didn't care for (not as natural sounding kind of like the B&W's but very different). Also for my taste I prefer musical and not overly detailed. There are others who want every last bit of detail and to ME I find myself listening, no analyzing everything but the music (equipment - vocals - instruments and not hearing the music as a whole). |
Hi guys, sorry for the late reply. Raindog031, a room like yours, i.e. of almost 27 square meters, will be adequately pressurized by speakers that are much larger than the C1s, e.g. Wilson Sophia, B&W 802D, Avantgarde Uno and DUO (u get the idea). All these speakers produce much more bass than the C1, so if you are unlike and your room is bass-hungry the C1s might get lost in it. Like you, I do not think that the C1s will totally get lost into your room. Probably even in the worths case a subwoofer, placed in the right place, will be able to solve this problem. (I have mentioned this just as a fictional scenario why you might not like the C1 and would want to re-sell them.) Xti16, just because you did not heard other speaker that were more transparent than the C1 mk2 it does not mean that there aren't any. For example, all Focal Utopia monitor models (the Diablos probably have twice as much detail than the C1 mk2), B&W 805S/D, Wilson Duettes (and the list can go on and on..). I am not saying that when listening the previously mentioned speakers you hear details that you can not hear via the C1 mk1 or mk2 speakers, just that via the C1s those little things are lest obvious - one needs to pay much more attention to the music in order to become fully aware of those details. I have listen all models (mk1 and mk2) in the Confidence line often quite at lengths and they all have this characteristic. The strengths of all these Dyns is in the very natural and seductive midrange and powerful bass. Also, I would say that you are a bit biased here as it seems to me that you went directly from the C1 mk1 to the mk2 without much search (I apologize in advance if I am wrong.) Regarding prices, I do not see the point you try to make - prices and or price differences are relevant in the present discussion. In the Netherlands quite a few dealers have both C1 models in stock and they will give a very generous discount for the mk1 plus full warranty but no discount for the mk2 models. (e.g. I have paid 4k euros for the C1 mk1 models I had in my room including the Dynaudio stand 4 stands and the speakers were basically new, i.e. no scratches and had full warranty. On the other hand a pair of C mk2s with stands cost 7K euros. A pre-own pair of C1 should cost here around 3k.) Best wishes, Paul |
Also, IMO the mk2 version does not improves significantly upon the mk1 model '(if at all)'. Certainly not to justify the large price difference between the two models, i.e. almost a factor of twoYou are comparing new to pre-owned/discontinued prices. I was commenting based on the differences in sound. Otherwise for the money the original is a great value. The C1 speaker is not for everyone. As far as heavy metal I would recommend something like S25's instead (Sapphires or Consequence UE if price were no object). But for classical rock Jazz New age rock etc I think the C1's do a great job. I rarely play my music loud and that is one of the advantages of the MKII over the MKI besides being a 'little' less nasally sounding. Both speakers are world class. While the C1 have a very seductive midrange they are not very transparent (this is still the case also with the mk2 models).I strongly disagree with that statement. In my opinion they are the most transparent speaker I've ever heard. They just disappear. In my opinion someone looking to set up a system should find the speakers they prefer the most first. I bought the Bryston before my speakers and although I was quite happy there was always something missing (control). I came real close to getting the Naim Supernait but then I considered tubes and then after an in home demo with the Octave I pounced on it. |
paul i have readed your review some time ago...good review...im interested you said that my room could be big for c1....im not so shure...4.6x5.8m so when i put speakers bout 3 feet behind wall i assume it will be good my listening position will be 3m away...it could be problems with bass but im not pesimist...i think that this room could be ideal for c1...smaller room could make problems with bass...atleast thats my experience...i will try my b&w monitors first there so i will see how room reacts and how they fill the room...they are 50w weaker then dyns...and paul you may not noticed that but xti diddnt discharge less powerful amps...he also has octave integrated and driving dyns with no problem...i think 70w class a...what you probbably wanted to say is to buy quality power...regardles of amp watts...cheers |
Xti16, I did not say that there is not difference between the mk1 and mk2 models. I was just being practical. Since Raindog031 mentioned that his budget is limited and that he does not want to wait 3 years to buy a decent amp for the mk2s, I have suggested him to get the mk1s which (at least in the Netherlands) are sold at approximately half the price. The difference between the two models is enough to buy a good amp. mk1 + good amp >>> mk2 with a cheep amp (or no amp for that matter). IMO it is safer to go that root. Firstly, his room is quite large so there is a chance the C1 might get lost in it. One can never predict the bass behavior of a future room. Secondly, he might not be happy with them. While the C1 have a very seductive midrange they are not very transparent (this is still the case also with the mk2 models). No only heavier music might not benefit from that midrange magic but it is likely it will sound too polite. Raindog031, if you did not check it out already, you might want to have a look at the review I wrote about the C1 mk1 speakers. Some of the contributors in this thread have also posted their comments there. You might find them useful. Finally, like Xti16, I would advise you to not discharge less powerful amps. My class A Accuphase (60 watts in 4 ohms) had no problems to drive the mk1s and mk2s and put to shame a 200 watts Mcintosh amp when driving the C2 mk2 speakers. |
C1 mk1 is a marvelous speaker. Also, IMO the mk2 version does not improves significantly upon the mk1 model (if at all). Certainly not to justify the large price difference between the two models, i.e. almost a factor of two.Paul there is a difference. I upgraded from the original C1 (7000 USD) to the C1 Signatures (8500 USD) not the MKII (7500 USD). Granted with the Signatures you pay for the finish and 10 yr warranty. That being said the MKII/Signature is less nasally sounding than the originals. I NEVER thought the originals sounded nasally until I heard the 2 side by side. Also the MKII sounds better at lower volumes. More efficient?? I'm sure a lot has to do with the upstream components (source cables amp etc) too. If there is a downside (excluding cost) it may be the MKII/Signature might not play as loud. That observation is from memory. When I had the 2 side by side I did not push them at all. It wasn't until several weeks later I finally pushed the Signatures (I don't have a db meter to prove it) but again from memory. So for me since 99.8% of my listening is lower levels the Signatures work out much better for me. Don't get me wrong the original C1's are world class speakers. For whatever it is worth my system is Meridian G08 Nordost Frey ic and sc Octave V70SE tube integrated |
tnx paul on a kind words...i was thinking bout that...and i would buy second hand c1 coldblooded if the price is good...regarding my limited budget...it was mostly related on separates...that means i can buy a decent integrated...maybe i could buy separates...but i dont want wait for 2 3 years more to complete the system...so option is that before end of this year...and if i get c1 at cheeper price maybe even sooner...i must plan good...tnx everyone on tips and good will... |
Raindog031, since you have mentioned several times that funds are limited, my recommendation would be to buy the C1 Mk1 model. C1 mk1 is a marvelous speaker. Also, IMO the mk2 version does not improves significantly upon the mk1 model (if at all). Certainly not to justify the large price difference between the two models, i.e. almost a factor of two. Check regularly www.audio-markt.de and I am sure you will find a demo model with warranty for a bit more than half the prices of the mk2s. As for amps, I recommend you either Accuphase (e.g. E-408/450/350/550, etc.) or Musical Fidelity (e.g. KW500/550). Regarding subwoofers, I too recommend a REL. Good luck and keep us posted! Paul |
Depending on room size and placement floorstanders can sound great but the can also overpower a room like mine. In my room the C1's with sub sound better than the C2's. Better imaging - sound stage where the C2's were a 'wall' of sound coming at me. Granted you won't get the super high listening volume as you would with a floorstander |
i agree...becuz of tricky sub setup i first wanted just floorstanders...then i dont have to think...i was aiming at new focus 380...seems to me that is quite good speaker...but its 300w and it would be ideal but i need monster of integrated amp for that speakers...not in range...so c1 mk2 with proper sub and little less (lets say double less) demanding integrated...hell...i think that could be cheaper and better sounding combo...just to blend the sub properly as you say... |
.Xti my dream is exelent full range florstander and separates without subwoofer but cannot afford so in my opinion in this chase it would be nice to have sub with dyns to cover below 45hz for more lifelike sounding and with good integrated that has sub out...thats far cheeper and overall preety decent equipment to all normal people...I think that's everyone's dream. But dreaming aside I will say my Rel B3 is crossed over at 32hz. It has a high level input so the cable is connected to the speaker posts on the Ovtave. So in my opinion the sub-out is not a requirement. Getting the sub setup right does require some work so you can't hear where it is. Most folks (myself included) set the sub too high to begin. The other thing is to get the timing/phasing right. Most subs come with a 0 or 180 degree phase switch. From there you may need to move the sub closer or farther to get it to blend properly. You don't want the output of the sub leading or lagging the sound from the speaker. I've had some people come over who could really care less about audio saying WOW do those little speakers sure can hit some really low notes. Again the C1's do very well without a sub and there is very little below 40hz on most recordings. But when it is there WOW |
Trigon el. never heard...ill check...but exelent to know that dyns are so refined and most of the instruments sound lifelike...when i listened some old SF monitor before 8 yrs. i concluded that they play exelent acoustic string instruments...but encountered some problems on more heavyer and more dynamic music...so its blessing to have speakers that all music works well...Xti my dream is exelent full range florstander and separates without subwoofer but cannot afford so in my opinion in this chase it would be nice to have sub with dyns to cover below 45hz for more lifelike sounding and with good integrated that has sub out...thats far cheeper and overall preety decent equipment to all normal people... |
dont joke on accordion...i listen Tom Waits alotreally:) I would add pipes,guitars,drums,various voices at normal to loud listening levels speakers niether i can listen to all combinations here in croatia so i want take proper speakers and integrated for most kind of music...too bad we are not marketpeople in Germany like to combine dynaudio with Trigon electronics.Some dealers in eu do that.Quite good combination.Krell electronics adds drive and punch to dynaudio.You can always choose used amps at cheaper price |
tnx for guidance...i heard bout viennas...but i like more neutral speakers...im not limited on one kind of music...sometimes i like more foward sometimes laid back...not allways laidback...but ill stick with dyns i think i will be overall pleased...if i get your story they are right in the middle...with little luck my dealer will have mk2 in a few months so i will audition them and make my final decision...meanwhile i will try to audition some other gear...i will see if subwoofer will be needed...i will take dyn sub 600 if needed...think that would be best for synergy...cheers |
Like I said the SF Auditor M's were my second choice. I would be owning them now if I never heard the C1's. Just a hair more laid back especially in the mids. I also think the highs are much better with the C1's. Two pluses for me and I thought the bass was about the same. In my opinion they (SF) would be great classical/orchestral only speakers. But I listen to all types of music. I'm not a fan of speakers that are real forward. I've never compared the Signatures to the SF auditor 'M's' but I would have to say I would like the Dyn MKII/Signature more because I liked the original C1's over the SF (real close though) and like the Sig's that much better. |
...im aware of that...read all kinds of reviews of c1 but i wanted to hear from first hand about sound characteristics of the new model...you keep them little close to the wall but i supose you have the correct sound as i see you are happy overall...and how can you compare cremona m with c1...im also considering sonus fabers...they indeed have seductive sound...but i think they are little colored...im suspicious how sonus manages to play all kinds of music correct...but for the acoustical are maybe best what i heard...and i heard that new SF are less colored than old models but they lost old sound a bit...well new men new sound... |
My previous speakers were Mission/Cyrus 782's. I bought them in 1990 when they first came to the USA. Loved them and still have them but the Dyn's are a world better. Another speaker I seriously considered was the Sonus Faber Creamora auditor M's (a hair more laid back sounding). To compare I took my 782's to the dealers. Then I found Dynaudio. Took me less than 10 seconds to decide those were my next speakers. That was the first time the minute I heard something I had to have it. My Octave Integrated was the other only after an in-home demo. I have a Rel B3 which I had before I even before heard of Dynaudio, and I still use it. Do I need it? Not really. I have disconnected on several occasions and forgot it was off until I would play something with the lowest of octaves. I only have a few cd's with real low bass. That being said I will also say the sub adds to the soundstage by making it sound a little fuller. As far as placement the rear of the speaker is 2 ft from the back wall and 41 inches from the front of the speaker. The main reason is I still have an old Tube TV and I don't want to magnetize it. Also I have about a 5 degree toe-in (virtually straight). I swapped out the 6550's last night with some Ei KT90's and because they don't have the bass like my other 6550's and KT88's I got them unbelievable loud. With those tubes I do need a sub. In case you are not aware the only difference between the MKII and signature is the finish and a 10 yr warranty. |