Paul The logo on the stands is still the same old logo. The logo on the mkII and Signatures is the new one. That's what the North American Dyn rep has told me. |
The Signatures do everything very well. After upgrading from the original C1's to the Signatures I found they sound a little clearer from top to bottom. They also play better at lower volumes. I don't think they play as loud as the originals though which for me is fine.
I currently drive my C1 Signatures with an Octave V70SE. Naim XS also pairs up very well with the C1's. The key is good clean current as Tom mentioned. As for pricing the original C1's retailed for 7K with the C1 MKII at 7.5K and Signatures for 8.5K. If considering any of the C1's make sure to get the Stand4 also. |
Raindog031 - I've never measured the db from either speaker (C1 MKII or orig C1's). I don't play loud very often. I would say the loudest would be (if we were standing next to each other) we would have to talk pretty loud to each other.
As far as music I like Jazz - soft and classical rock - new age and some hard rock.
If there was any one instrument I would say that sounds scary real it would be an acoustical guitar. Rock sounds great with them but on the other hand if you like a more forward presentation with rock music consider the Special 25 or possibly the Contour S1.4's. That being said as you know the Confidence line was just improved with the MKII/Signatures and the Focus line was just redone also. Dyn just announced the Xeo and I would think the Contour line may have an update coming soon.
As far as the SimAudio be aware it has great control - fantastic tonal qualities - but also very analytical and somewhat sterile sounding to me. Too much detail that makes me want to listen to the equipment and not the music. You may see/hear different. But that's my opinion of Sim.
What are you currently using for an amp? I had a Naim XS w/the external power supply and it was an excellent combination with great synergy. With either the Naim or the Octave I can make the speakers bottom out before either integrated gives out. I personally got the Octave knowing I can swap tubes and change the sound which is less expensive than new electronics. But if I could afford it I would have Burmester.
By the way my C1 Signatures are Mocha AND I was lucky enough to get a pair of the discontinued black/chrome Stand4's. Great looking combination. |
I agree get to the speakers you want first and worry about the amp and cables later. I bought my amp (Bryston B100sst) before the C1's which worked but only sounded OK. |
If I'm not mistaken only the Consequence UE uses Ocos for internal wiring (maybe the Evidence too). The C1 MKII uses an upgraded version of Van den hul that the original C1's had.
If your looking at Bryston consider the 4bsst and nothing less. I had the B100sst and my sons 3bsst and although good neither had the control the Naim or Octave has. Anyhow take your time because someday you will hear the right one. |
No pottery wheel (TT) for me.
As for the loudness I noticed that after 700 hrs - a friend asked loud they go and when I turned the volume up to what I was used to with the originals the speakers bottomed out. I had the Octave. I bought my dealers Signatures when they arrived in the USA. Since I had his speakers my dealer had a customer that wanted to hear the new MKII so he had to come to my house. That's when I had the Naim XS to match the customers system (that my dealer brought over). That being said I was using the high transconductance EAT KT88's. Since then one of the EAT's won't hold a consistent bias. For me the EAT's don't seem to be too reliable. Out of a quad and a pair I only have 3 good ones. Best sounding tube when they work. I haven't tried with my Tung Sol 6550 black or grey plates. I may give it a try again after I get home tonight. |
The DDC is only on speakers with multiple tweeters (C2 C4 and Evidence). Anyhow it is supposed to drastically cut down on the reflection from the ceiling. It's also supposed to sound much better. That being said I was lucky enough to have an 8 day in-home demo with the original C2's and they were too much for my room so I can't really can't comment on that. |
The DDC again is for multiple tweeters. My room is 3.66m X 7.93m with the speakers about the middle of the long wall with a vaulted ceiling |
OK I've been pushing the Octave with the Tung Sol 6550 solid grey plates and they do go louder than with the EAT KT88's without bottoming out. I believe it's due to the fact the EAT's are a very high transconductance tube. Meaning the EAT's have more control and dynamics. They get pretty d@mn loud - at least for me :-) especially with the TS |
My previous speakers were Mission/Cyrus 782's. I bought them in 1990 when they first came to the USA. Loved them and still have them but the Dyn's are a world better. Another speaker I seriously considered was the Sonus Faber Creamora auditor M's (a hair more laid back sounding). To compare I took my 782's to the dealers. Then I found Dynaudio. Took me less than 10 seconds to decide those were my next speakers. That was the first time the minute I heard something I had to have it. My Octave Integrated was the other only after an in-home demo.
I have a Rel B3 which I had before I even before heard of Dynaudio, and I still use it. Do I need it? Not really. I have disconnected on several occasions and forgot it was off until I would play something with the lowest of octaves. I only have a few cd's with real low bass. That being said I will also say the sub adds to the soundstage by making it sound a little fuller.
As far as placement the rear of the speaker is 2 ft from the back wall and 41 inches from the front of the speaker. The main reason is I still have an old Tube TV and I don't want to magnetize it. Also I have about a 5 degree toe-in (virtually straight).
I swapped out the 6550's last night with some Ei KT90's and because they don't have the bass like my other 6550's and KT88's I got them unbelievable loud. With those tubes I do need a sub.
In case you are not aware the only difference between the MKII and signature is the finish and a 10 yr warranty. |
Like I said the SF Auditor M's were my second choice. I would be owning them now if I never heard the C1's. Just a hair more laid back especially in the mids. I also think the highs are much better with the C1's. Two pluses for me and I thought the bass was about the same. In my opinion they (SF) would be great classical/orchestral only speakers. But I listen to all types of music. I'm not a fan of speakers that are real forward. I've never compared the Signatures to the SF auditor 'M's' but I would have to say I would like the Dyn MKII/Signature more because I liked the original C1's over the SF (real close though) and like the Sig's that much better. |
Forgot to mention If you like real laid back try listening to Vienna Acoustic concert grand series. In my opinion another one for classical/ orchestral music only. Now I've never heard Totem's - Silverline and Harbeth speakers which are supposed to be somewhat similar to Dyns from what I've read. |
You got it. The Dyn C1's are the best of all worlds of music. At least that's my opinion. As far as a sub the Dyn subs do not have a high level input. I, like most do not have a sub out. Yeah I can use the pre-out but would prefer high level. |
.Xti my dream is exelent full range florstander and separates without subwoofer but cannot afford so in my opinion in this chase it would be nice to have sub with dyns to cover below 45hz for more lifelike sounding and with good integrated that has sub out...thats far cheeper and overall preety decent equipment to all normal people... I think that's everyone's dream. But dreaming aside I will say my Rel B3 is crossed over at 32hz. It has a high level input so the cable is connected to the speaker posts on the Ovtave. So in my opinion the sub-out is not a requirement. Getting the sub setup right does require some work so you can't hear where it is. Most folks (myself included) set the sub too high to begin. The other thing is to get the timing/phasing right. Most subs come with a 0 or 180 degree phase switch. From there you may need to move the sub closer or farther to get it to blend properly. You don't want the output of the sub leading or lagging the sound from the speaker. I've had some people come over who could really care less about audio saying WOW do those little speakers sure can hit some really low notes. Again the C1's do very well without a sub and there is very little below 40hz on most recordings. But when it is there WOW |
Depending on room size and placement floorstanders can sound great but the can also overpower a room like mine. In my room the C1's with sub sound better than the C2's. Better imaging - sound stage where the C2's were a 'wall' of sound coming at me. Granted you won't get the super high listening volume as you would with a floorstander |
C1 mk1 is a marvelous speaker. Also, IMO the mk2 version does not improves significantly upon the mk1 model (if at all). Certainly not to justify the large price difference between the two models, i.e. almost a factor of two. Paul there is a difference. I upgraded from the original C1 (7000 USD) to the C1 Signatures (8500 USD) not the MKII (7500 USD). Granted with the Signatures you pay for the finish and 10 yr warranty. That being said the MKII/Signature is less nasally sounding than the originals. I NEVER thought the originals sounded nasally until I heard the 2 side by side. Also the MKII sounds better at lower volumes. More efficient?? I'm sure a lot has to do with the upstream components (source cables amp etc) too. If there is a downside (excluding cost) it may be the MKII/Signature might not play as loud. That observation is from memory. When I had the 2 side by side I did not push them at all. It wasn't until several weeks later I finally pushed the Signatures (I don't have a db meter to prove it) but again from memory. So for me since 99.8% of my listening is lower levels the Signatures work out much better for me. Don't get me wrong the original C1's are world class speakers. For whatever it is worth my system is Meridian G08 Nordost Frey ic and sc Octave V70SE tube integrated |
Paul You are right where I haven't heard that many speakers. It was a short speaker shopping trip for me once I heard the Dyns. In fact the dealer that had the SF picked up the Dynaudio line AFTER I got my originals. When I got the Signatures I found out he also just picked up the Focal line. He is about an hour away but since I am very happy with my Dyns I have no intention of even demoing them (unless I'm in the area).
Raindog Once again both the MKI and MKII are fantastic. The difference is when you turn up the MKI's they get much better where the MKII's sound better at lower volumes but keep sounding that good as you turn them up. So if you have a dealer that has both I highly recommend going and seriously listen to both side by side at all volumes. Let YOUR ears decide. |
Also, IMO the mk2 version does not improves significantly upon the mk1 model '(if at all)'. Certainly not to justify the large price difference between the two models, i.e. almost a factor of two You are comparing new to pre-owned/discontinued prices. I was commenting based on the differences in sound. Otherwise for the money the original is a great value. The C1 speaker is not for everyone. As far as heavy metal I would recommend something like S25's instead (Sapphires or Consequence UE if price were no object). But for classical rock Jazz New age rock etc I think the C1's do a great job. I rarely play my music loud and that is one of the advantages of the MKII over the MKI besides being a 'little' less nasally sounding. Both speakers are world class. While the C1 have a very seductive midrange they are not very transparent (this is still the case also with the mk2 models). I strongly disagree with that statement. In my opinion they are the most transparent speaker I've ever heard. They just disappear. In my opinion someone looking to set up a system should find the speakers they prefer the most first. I bought the Bryston before my speakers and although I was quite happy there was always something missing (control). I came real close to getting the Naim Supernait but then I considered tubes and then after an in home demo with the Octave I pounced on it. |
Xti16, just because you did not heard other speaker that were more transparent than the C1 mk2 it does not mean that there aren't any. For example, all Focal Utopia monitor models (the Diablos probably have twice as much detail than the C1 mk2), B&W 805S/D, Wilson Duettes (and the list can go on and on..). I am not saying that when listening the previously mentioned speakers you hear details that you can not hear via the C1 mk1 or mk2 speakers, just that via the C1s those little things are lest obvious - one needs to pay much more attention to the music in order to become fully aware of those details. I have listen all models (mk1 and mk2) in the Confidence line often quite at lengths and they all have this characteristic. The strengths of all these Dyns is in the very natural and seductive midrange and powerful bass. Also, I would say that you are a bit biased here as it seems to me that you went directly from the C1 mk1 to the mk2 without much search (I apologize in advance if I am wrong.) Guilty as charged. I'll admit I heard the B&W 805s and SF Creamora Auditor M ONLY before deciding on the C1 MK I. For me it was one of those things once I heard the C1 MK I I knew my speaker search was over. I have to have the right mid range and top end sparkle which the Dyn's do great. I'll also admit I bought the Signatures before hearing them (gasp). Glad I did and would do again now knowing how they sound. Remember this thread started by asking a question regarding the sound of the C1 Signature. As far as price I agree the MK I is a fantastic bargain. Everyone has their own taste. For me I love the C1 and the Special 25's - well I didn't care for (not as natural sounding kind of like the B&W's but very different). Also for my taste I prefer musical and not overly detailed. There are others who want every last bit of detail and to ME I find myself listening, no analyzing everything but the music (equipment - vocals - instruments and not hearing the music as a whole). |
Paul I requested new logos (from the distributor) the day I got mine. Not sure if I mentioned it but I was able to get the discontinued black/chrome Stand4 NOS. They look killer with the Mocha C1's. But remember that stand is for several models and only the new Focus and Confidence has the new logos. The Coutours and Excites still have the old logo.
Stricken I agree 100%. Personally I would not delay a purchase because of a logo. I could take it off but it does not look bad. |
Raindog If you get the C1's get the stand 4. You mount the tubes to the speaker plinth without using the top plate. Then before you put on the bottom plate is when you fill them. I have only my rear tube filled 2/3rds with sand. Yes you do get a big long baggie to put the sand in since you can also run the speaker cable through the back tube.
As far as I know there is no new logo for the stands. I'll be contacting the North American distributor next week for something else so I'll ask the question again. |
Actually the Stand4 is only 3 or 4 years old. They replaced the Stand2. The difference is the Stand4 has a larger opening at the bottom to make it easier to fill with sand. When I first got my original C1's my dealer brought over the Stand2 and when I asked how to fill them he looked at me with a grin and said "grain by grain" (because the opening was tiny) and gave me his Stand4. As far as filling the tubes I highly recommend using the foam insert for the top of the speaker and setting the speaker in it upside down. Leave the grills on and use an old towel or sheet to cover the speaker because if accidentally spill some sand you don't want it to get stuck to the Esotar2 tweeter. Now if that should happen crumple up some scotch tape and get it off that way. DO NOT use electrical or duct tape because to is tooooooooo sticky and you may ruin the tweeter.
I should be getting an answer tomorrow from Dynaudio in the USA |
OK I was wrong. There is a new Stand4 and they have no logo per Dynaudio. Just got a reply today. |
Raindog Haven't heard back again from the Distributor regarding if that is the only change. Anyhow my black/chrome stands are staying. They just look too d@mn good with the Signatures.
Paul - the stand4 doesn't ring when empty due to the way the bases are constructed. At least that is what I have found. When filled they give a more forward presentation with cleaner and tighter tones. That is why I have mine only partially filled. Personally I'm not a fan of too forward or I may have considered something more like the S25's. |
No Logo is the ONLY difference |
Abe
Not sure if Raindog031 ever got any C1's. They will be different from your S25's. More laid back - easier to setup and listen to. Just get them away from the back walls. The MKII/Sig sound so much better at lower volumes when compared to the originals. |
Hi Paul
Congratulations on the C1's. Have you filled the stands? I have the rear post about 3/4 filled with sand and it tightens up everything from the lows to the highs.
Hey with the originals you don't have to worry about the emblems LOL!! BTW I received my new Dynaudio emblems for my stand 4's about a month ago - looks great. |
Paul by any chance did you have the Rel still connected. I ask because I have the Rel B3 and found the combo to sound the best when I had the crossover set 34hz. Any higher and with a few recordings the bass is overwhelming. For me I use the sub to add what the C1's can't physically reproduce while others want to add to what is already there. |
