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Dynamics and Microdynamics

Perhaps this isn't an amplifier, but a speaker issue instead (or both). Here is my observation:

I recently listened to the same piece of music (Chopin, Etudes, Pollini, Deutsche Grammophon 431221) on two different systems (in the same room). System A: VTL MB-450 monoblocks in tetrode mode, driving B&W Nautilus 802. System B: Classe Delta CA M-400 monoblocks driving Wilson Watt/Puppy 7. Source, pre-amp, and cabling was the same.

Now here's what was strange: While the Classe/Wilson system was clearly better at microdynamics (ferreting out the hidden gems of melodical lines within the overall structure of the pieces), the VTL/B&W system did a better job at conveying the dynamical punches (from ebbing to swelling, up and down the tonal scale), i.e., the guts of the musical structure. From memory, when I listened to these pieces live, both mico-and macrodynamics were clearly audible, not just one or the other.

Also, system A sounded a little thinner, system B a little warmer. So my question: Any explanation for this? While I understand that the refinement you get with an accurate representation of microdynamics is system-dependent (and the Watt/Puppys are more expensive speakers than the Nautilus 802), both systems should have been able to get the macrodynamics right, or not? Or does this have anything to do with tube (VTL) vs solid-state (Classe) technologies?

Thanks for any insights.
hgabert
hgabert OP
41 posts
 
I've heard very good things about the Lamms. But do the Lamm M1.1's (at 100 watts) really have enough power? I can't even run the VTL 450's in triode mode because with 220 watts (!) breakup occurs (at reasonable listening levels). So I'm somewhat skeptical, but I'm open to any explanations why 100 Lamm watts should be sufficient.
rhljazz
1,253 posts
 
You didn't mention which preamps or source were used. Assuming the source components were the same, I will say the N802's are more detailed when spiked, it is not likely they will be set up that way in a dealers show room. I will also say they sound much better with tube power, in my case VAC than with a former amp Classe.
hgabert OP
41 posts
 
Source was Mark Levinson 390s (CD), preamp was Mark Levinson 380s, interconnects and speaker cables were all Transparent.

You're probably right about the missing spikes.
mphnkns
68 posts
 
The Wilsons, in their earlier incarnations, leaned (no pun intended) from thin sounding (Series 1), to richer sounding (Series 2) to lean again (Series 3). Depending on which incarnation you are using, this may be helpful information.
I don't believe that Dave ever used components that sounded "lightweight" as did older Classe equipment (I don't know about current lines; haven't heard them). He always went for a "rich" sound, as in Rowland Research, which assisted in his "voicing" of the very earlier WATTS.
As for the WATTS not having "macro" dynamics, all I can say is Dave must have radically changed the speakers over time. When I had them, I used them with VTL 300s, and, believe me, they had not just macro, but MACRO!!!!! In fact, I might have said, at the time, there were fewer microdynamics than macros.
Someone else suggested the front end would be important and I agree with that wholeheartedly.
And as for "warmth" hiding detail, well...hmmm...not sure I'd agree with that. Just listen to a pair of Avalon Ascents or Eclipse speakers, which have a very natural warmth to them, and they always had terrific ability to convey details. Not to mention their sense of space, which was, on Jadis electronics, Heaven on Earth. I don't think it matters if a sound is warm, unless that warmth is an overabundance of upper bass/lower midrange frequencies. Music needn't sound sterile to convey detail.
howie
230 posts
 
I have heard the 390, 380, and transparent cables together, the Classe (flagship monoblocks and CAM350) and B&W together, but not the Wilson Audio and VTL. I believe what you heard was mainly the effects of the amp. Classe amps tend not to be the warmest nor the champs at macrodynamics (in its price range). I do remember them revealing spatial details very well though.

Some people run the 7s with low power tubes so I would think 100W is more than sufficient, although having never heard the Wilsons I can't be sure. You can look into Manley amps as well. I think they combine refinement, warmth, and tube power for their price very well. I don't think they're as good as the Lamms but you do have to pay more. It certainly gives you a different combination of sonic attributes nonetheless.
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