Blue Jeans coax - sounds good to me
230 responses Add your response
Just pulled the trigger on 12 meters of DCA16GA. Hoping it's a big improvement over my AQ Type 4. Good price but very bizarre ordering process. Earlier in the thread it was mentioned that the wire should first be cleaned to remove any oils. Would rubbing alcohol on a cotton swab do? Or is another solvent better. Also I was a little surprised to see these were stranded wires instead of solid core. I had always assumed solid core was better. Is that generally true? |
Just curious what the concern is of not cleaning off the oil? Possible bad connection for the speaker posts? I haven't had a problem with the 16g speaker wire where I've used it and always thought that the oil is what partly helps give Duelund it's sound. Are you guys cleaning off the oil but then applying some type of deoxit gold or furutech liquid? Just wondering what people are doing. |
Mitch2 & Grannyring; I am settled right now with a combination of both of you recommendations. I am using Bi wire 10 awg Western electric with no connectors(bare wire). Surprisingly in my system, the single wire sounded with less highs and little less defined low ended; everything changed with the biwire, better highs, clear low end, more dynamic and of of course the famous nice midrange that this cables are famous for. Thanks a lot for your inputs. Cheers, |
I NEED GUD SOUND ADVICE SETUP. BP9080X TOWER. BP8060 TOWERS REAR SURROUND.ALL DEF TECH 4 HEIGHT SPEAKERS IN FRONT 2 DOLBY ATMOS 2 SR9080 DEF TECH surround & 2REAR SR9080 SURROUND EMOTIVA. XPA9 GEN 3 AMP.W/XLR OUTS. SR8802A PREAMP MARANTZ WITH BASIC BEST BUY SPEAKER WIRE CAN I IMPROVE SOUND QUALITY WITH SPEAKER WIRE & XLR CABLES. UPGRADES WILL I TELL THE DIFFERENCE I'M READING ALOT OF AUDIO FORUMS THIS STUFF COST WHATS A GUD WIRE & CABLE BUDGET FOR WHAT I HAVE THXS AUDIO COMMUNITY |
I just made two sets of 3.5M long balanced interconnects using the same construction method of a twisted pair of conductors encased in a noise-reduction braided tube as a spacer, then a tinned-copper braid shield connected at only the source end and then a counter-spiraled ground wire outside the shield and connected at both ends, with the whole thing covered in clean-cut TechFlex. Both sets were made with Furutech FP-601/602(G) connectors. The difference between the two sets of ICs was the wire used. One of the sets was made from Duelund 20 awg tinned copper wire with a 18 awg ground wire and the other set was made from WE 16 awg tinned copper wire with a 14 awg ground wire. The difference between the two cables is interesting. I like them both and would choose either in comparison to a pair of the same length of high quality Furutech u-P2.1 PCOCC 19 awg interconnects I own. The Duelund 20 awg cables have nice tone and good dynamics. The larger 16 awg WE wire cables have an even fuller tone and a bold, powerful sound. The Duelund ICs do a bit more/better with the upper frequencies but I like what the larger WE wire does for bass and midrange. The WE cables are not as burned in as the Duelunds, which spent 4 days on the Cable Cooker and then a day in my system. I will burn both sets in more and report back. I am very close to having my entire system wired with the WE (or Duelund) wire, including ICs, SCs, and PCs (but not my USB cables). |
I'm using Dueland 16GA as my speakers (Pure Audio Project Trio 15 Horn1) internal hookup wire. It replaced WE 16GA. It's still breaking in. But so far, I like the highs better. I've a question about speaker wire. Currently using WE 10GA. However, I'm planning to bi-wire. Common wisdom says to use the exact same wire and gauge for bi-wiring. That would mean double runs of 10 GA which is effectively 7GA. Is that too thick for a speaker cable? I heard thicker speaker cable can make the sound umm thick? |
@radiohead99 My experience was the opossite , read my post above, I started with single wire of WE10awg and the highs sounded thick and the lows not as articulated. When going bi wire every thing became so much better and even Dynamics and soundstage improved. I also had in mind trying to the duelund 12 ga but it was much cheaper to just get another WE10ga. |
@cardani Very interesting. I was looking for WE 10ga on ebay and it seems supplies are dwindling compare to a year ago when I bought mine. Also, the price has gone up a bit. Where did you get your WE 10ga from? Another reason, I'm little wary of bi-wiring with 10GA is that I"ve only binding post per channel in my amp. Not sure how I can put two 10GA bare wire to fit in the terminal. How did you do it? |
@cardani I was thinking of getting a combination of spade and banana connectors on the amp end to do bi-wire from a single amp terminal. Given, how much trouble I had putting just one 10GA wire into it, I'm surprised that you were able to fit two 10GA wire in your amp terminal. Unless of course, your amp terminal is bigger. |
Hi cmonster, Mike at Tweek Geek sells an improved, multi-run, terminated version of the Duelund 16ga speaker wire called the "Dark Energy" speaker cable that I prefer sonically to the standard "single run" 16ga Duelund wire. Mike’s version uses three runs of the 16ga Duelund wire per + and - leg (6 runs per channel vs two for the basic unterminated Duelund wire) that is terminated with Wireworld Rhodium connectors (both spade and banana ends are provided with the cables and interchangeable by simply screwing in the desired termination into the connector’s base). Mike also applies Furutech "nano-liquid" contact enhancer and his "Sonic Tonic" inside all connector housings. https://www.tweekgeek.com/dark-energy-speaker-cables/ I found them to sound superior to the bare Duelund 16 ga wire with a more refined and relaxed (yet more naturally detailed) upper-frequency sound character while maintaining the unique golden tone of the bare Duelund wire. Mike offers free in-home trials. Dave |
I tried the Dark Energy ICs and, in my system, I preferred the 20ga Duelund ICs from Parts Connexion. The latter uses Duelund Rhodium RCA connectors, is the more lively sounding of the two, and was the better match for the Dark Energy speaker cables in my system. If your system is on the bright side or you still seek a more refined sound with the Dark Energy speaker cables, the Dark Energy ICs could be a great match. Mike at Tweek Geek provides free in-home trials for both the speaker cables and ICs. Dave |
kclone, I've been on a quest for the past year in finding the best sounding bulk cable and someone from another forum found them gem and it is spectacular. I found the Nanotec # 308 to sound better in my system than all Furutech varieties and many other brands by a good margin. So, what is this PC you speak of; Oyaide Black Mamba V2 which utilizes the latest and greatest SSC 102 Copper with a conductivity of 102, unbelievable clarity, channel separation, imaging, width/depth and sound-staging... Tweek Geek does make a Deulund PC and it's quite good but this BM is something special and quite cheap, just add your favorite plugs... Got mines here; https://global.rakuten.com/en/store/chuya-online/item/92481/ Wig :) |
Has anyone tried the WE 16/14/12/10 GA or the Duelund wire for power cables? How does it sound?I have made several of these and they sound great. On my big monoblock amplifiers I use a cross-connected quad run of the WE 10ga to the pos and neg poles (2, 10ga wires to each pole) and another two of the same wires to ground. On my preamp I use a simpler twisted pair of the 10ga (one wire each to pos and neg) with the same to ground. I have been using Furutech FI-11 (Cu) connectors with this wire. They compare very favorably with other manufactured power cords I own. In my system, the sound is full and tonally dense, similar to their wire used as speaker cables. Regarding the design, I shield all of my cords, with the shield spaced away from the pos-neg wires and with the ground wire(s) counter-spiraled outside of the shield. One could argue the quad run is overkill, even for large Class A monoblocks. Regarding who makes them, I believe this is the same wire used in the original "American Series" by TWL, for both power cables and speaker cables. I believe this wire was also used in power cords previously made by Mojo Audio. Regarding the Duelund wire, I would not use their cotton-clad-only wire for power applications. The WE wire has a plastic dielectric (and then an outside cotton covering) and others have found that suitable for power cords, but you should do your own research on the suitability of any wire you use in power applications. |
hmm, I have an older Mojo hanging around. can't remember what model, I bought it new about 5 years ago. I think it is in the trunk of my car, I will check it out in my system. I currently have the TWL Obsession PCs. Not unhappy at all, just curious about trying new things. Wig, are you recommending the Nanotech # 308 or the Black Mamba V2. Or both? |
kclone, The Mamba V2 beats my Nanotec across the board and is cheaper. Here's where you can buy a completed PC: https://global.rakuten.com/en/store/chuya-online/item/92479/ Wig |
Just finished a mini shoot-out comparing 3.5M long balanced (XLR) ICs made from Duelund 20 ga wire with ICs of the same length and construction method but made with WE 16 ga wire. The ICs connect my Metrum Pavane Level 3 DAC with my SMc preamp. The construction consists of twisted pair conductors covered with a low-noise spacer layer then a tinned copper braid-shield connected at the source end only and a counter-spiraled ground wire of a larger gauge than the signal wires and connected at both ends. Clean-cut TechFlex covers the whole assembly. Connectors are the Furutech FP-601/602 (G). A third, control IC that I am very familiar with consisted of Furutech's highly rated U-p2.1 balanced interconnect that uses 19 awg stranded Alpha-PCOCC conductors in special foamed PE insulation. In end, the DIY ICs made from the Duelund 20 ga wire were preferred. It was sort of a Goldilocks type of thing where the WE 16 ga wire was just a little too rich-sounding and midrange-centric, while the Furutech wire was nicely extended but didn't quite have the warmth and glowing tonal presentation of the two DIY ICs that both use tinned copper wire. The 20 ga Duelund wire was "just right" with a very nice blend of richness, warmth, detail, and extension, as well as that great tonal quality that folks like about the tinned copper Duelund and WE wire. All three sets of ICs had been conditioned for days on my Audiodharma Cable Cooker and all three sets sounded very nice - I could live with any of them. Unfortunately, my shoot-out still does not answer questions regarding Duelund vs. WE wire since the both of those had similar characteristics and I cannot say for sure whether the differences I heard were due to the differences in the wire and dielectric materials between Duelund and WE, or simply due to the difference between the gauge of the two wires (i.e., 20 awg Duelund wire vs. 16 awg WE wire). |
well, I ordered the Oyaide Black Mamba V2 from Rakuten on Jan. 1st but it never shipped. I guess they require you to confirm the order after actually ordering the product. I got an email after ordering the product, I didn't read it, I just though it was your typical confirmation email after you buy something. But I guess they actually require you to email them back to confirm the order. Kind of vague to me. So for anyone else trying to buy this, just a heads up. I guess it will be a another 9 or 10 days before I get it. |
@mitch2 Curious where you found the info on constructing a set of balanced cables using the Duelund cable? I am using the 16ga for speaker cables but not for interconnects as my system needs balanced interconnects. I am not that handy when it comes to soldering and have not tried to make interconnects. I tried a set in RCA and liked them but they don’t sound right with my current integrated, Ayre AX-7e. Any info is appreciated. Thanks! |
Hi joey54, I have been doing this for awhile so have read a lot of information and constructed a variety of cables, some that sound pretty good and others not so much. For information, you can search both this site and over at Audio Asylum in the Cable Asylum, particularly articles by Jon Risch (you can search by author over there). Goals for speaker and power cables are mostly low inductance and low resistance. Goals for ICs include low capacitance and EMI/RFI rejection while low resistance is not as important for ICs. A posting by Jon Risch at AA gives this basic information for twisted pair XLR ICs;
So, the design I used consisted of a twisted pair, to reduce EMI/RFI, spacing material to keep the shield away from the conductors, a braid shield connected at the source end only to further reject EMI/RFI, a ground wire outside of the shield that is of a larger gauge than the signal wires, tech flex, heat shrink, and high quality connectors. If you dig deeper into design options, you might find some believe there are benefits to spacing the signal cables away from each other a certain distance. Risch from AA did this by using cores of coaxial cables that are surrounded by foamed dielectric material, others do this by a variety of methods, including laying the wires flat with a consistent spacing between packing tape or sewed into material. Most manufactured ICs (if not coax) are a simple twisted pair, or multiple wires twisted around a core, because those designs are easier to mass-manufacture. Wires twisted around a core is the basis for DIY ICs you can read about at the VH Audio website. Consistency in spacing is important. Good luck whatever you choose to do.
|
| Post removed |
Recently I put my Belden 8402 ICs back in my system from the preamp to the amplifiers (still using Duelund 20ga between DAC and preamp). I was surprised that I did not seem to hear any of the drawbacks I previously heard with that wire. It retained the full, tonally rich sound that is consistent with all of the tinned, stranded wires I have tried, and it seemed to be suitably extended and did not lose control when played (plenty) loud. I looked at the construction and believe there is really only one main potential flaw to the 8402 being the use of EPDM rubber insulation. The only reason I can think to use that material is for flexibility as a commercial microphone cable but maybe you guys have a better idea of their reason for that design choice. I then looked at Belden's extensive catalog and ordered some 8422, which is mostly the same cable as 8402 but for two main differences, the conductors are 22 awg instead of the 20 awg in the 8402, and the insulation in the 8422 is polyethylene instead of rubber in the 8402. The strand size is the same and both are tinned. I will take the chance that there will be no detriment to the slightly smaller conductors for the hopefully positive trade-off going from rubber to polyethylene. The 22 awg may actually be a bit better extended without losing body and tonal density. The polyethylene should be a superior insulation with a much lower dielectric constant. I actually like polyethylene (preferably foamed) better than Teflon, which I find to impart a high frequency sheen that is a bit unnatural sounding to me. I have always believed there are advantages to using manufactured wire for interconnects because of the more consistent winding and spacing. Hopefully, I will receive the wire and be able to make a set or two this weekend. |
| Post removed |
I've been using the WE 16 gauge for a couple of years. I've recently added Tekton D.I.'s and a Had Inspire 7 watt SEP amp. Feeling I needed some more high frequency bloom, I purchased the DCA 16 and after about 34 hours of use it is a little more extended on top, but lacking some body and robustness in the lower regions. Today I just ordered the WE 10 gauge, but could not get enough for a double run. So with that a couple of questions. Has anyone tried combining a WE, and a DCA for a double run, or is that a really dumb idea? Since for now I can't get enough WE 10 for a double run, what about combining my 16 with the 10 being shipped this week for more extension on top? And the last question I could use help with for now is with a double run on the D.I.'s binding post with no hole in the middle, and for me needing to use the posts, any ideas on best ways to terminate with a thicker bare wire on that type of post? LP |
Thanks grannyring. I have have some of the Duelund 16GA at home. It’s cut to 4-single wire (10 ft) runs. I tried it in my second system (Croft phono integrated/ Harbeth P3’s) , and preferred my Auditorium 23 speaker cable to the Duelund. No shame for the Duelund of course, as it sells for a fraction of the price. In my main system (Shindo & Altec Valencia 846A), I use an outboard crossover (Werner Jagusch) from Germany. I’m using Belden 9497 to connect the crossover to woofer and horn on each speaker. I may try the above Duelund in place of the Belden in that application? I would have to cut the 10 ft runs in half to make that work. If I do this, is that an ideal configuration? I have heard Duelund users mention Double (or shotgun?) runs. I did have a well respected cable tech terminate a non-shield pair of Duelund 16GA interconnect for me, but I only use it every so often for digital in a mini system. I only need interconnect for my turntable > SUT and then from SUT > phono stage, and doubt that’s a good place for a non-shielded interconnect. |