Yes, in effect, you are now running 8TC, especially if you have twisted the runs together. I have done this in single wire configuration with one double run of 4TC on one speaker and a single run of 8TC on the other, twisting the double run of 4TC, and I can hear no difference between one speaker and the other. If you do a search at Audioasylum, there are posters there who feel that double runs of 4TC not twisted (simply run in parallel) outperform regular 8TC, but I have no experience with that and can't comment.
In any event, I'm sure you will be fine. |
I have done this with 4tc in the past and the results were very good. Enjoy ! |
Thanks for the response and excellent advise.
cheers! |
2chnlben and Darrylhifi,
May I ask whether you connected the two 4tc the way HDM did or you you kept them separate. I am tempted by the latter, but I am worried that this configuration will increase the inductance. So I am curious about your experience. Thanks. |
behnegan, You're thinking the same thing I was. That's why I started the thread. I did twist each pair together, and then I twisted the two pairs together. Of course, this cannot be the same as the actual "twisting" method done during production at Kimber. I would be interested in learning more about this. I did send an email to Kimber Kable, but unfortunately, no one from Kimber has responded. My speakers seem to be performing quite well; good clean, tight low end and clean & quick response from the top. I wonder what would happen if I untwisted them? It would be a hassle though, since I soldered the ends to spades.
I'll do some more research and let you know if I find out anything. I would appreciate the same from you, if you don't mind.
Thanks.
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I did this with 4 runs of 8TC with some Thiel 3.6's and the bass was too much. A single run sounded better but in essence you are creating a run of 8TC - check it out! |
2chnlben,
There seems to be no problem with the way you doubled up the 4tc, and from the reports of others it seems that you create something that is very close to 8tc. My guess would be that it might even be better than 8tc, because one of the problems with 8tc is a slighty excessive bass. By doubling up 4tc, you have a small gauge (10) than 8tc, and perhaps a lower capicitance. The only question is whether one can do even better by separating the 4tc. One person who tried it claims that by doing this one can preserve 4tc's superiority in transparency while adding some weight in the bass. perhaps in the next few weeks I will buy some extra 4tc to try this. |
Unless I'm mistaken, doubling up 4TC will give you the same gauge as 8TC as it is exactly the same wire. It sure looks the same to me, regardless of what is on the Kimber website. The only thing that will not be exactly the same is the twist if it is done manually. Frankly, I don't feel that 4TC has any edge in transparency over 8TC (I'd rank them as equals in that area, but I guess some would disagree) and I don't find 8TC's bass to be excessive. I will say that, having owned both, 4TC offers much better value, but I do prefer the added bass and warmth that 8TC offers. |
HDM,
Thanks for your impression of the difference between 4tc and 8tc. As to the gauge of two 4tc I am baffled. On one hand, if the wires are the same, two 4tc should equal one 8tc. On the other hand, two 13 gauge wires equal a 10 gauge wire and not a nine gauge. |
behnegan, if you do some experimenting with double runs of 4tc please let me know what you find. I may want to "untwist" my pairs, but I don't want to have to disconnect and resolder the ends if the results are minimal.
Interesting points raised and good input. Thanks to all. |
2chnlben,
I did get a chance to do some experiments. First, I doubled up my 4tc and kept the + and - cable five inches apart. It was a major improvement over a single run, better bass and no bad side effects. After several weeks, I felt that perhaps there was a bit of whiteness ( I cannot describe it better) in the upper frequencies so I put the + and - length together in a loose spiral. This further improved the base and the whiteness disappeared but perhaps there was tiny amount of less detail in upper frequencies. Now, this second arrangment is not the same as yours, but I suspect they are close. So based on my experience I would say that you should keep your arrangment. You should try to separate your runs only if you think that your base is too heavy. I should also say there was a big change going from 1 4tc to 2, but only a very minor change going from seperated runs to the spiral. One last note my system is bit light on bass so I cannot say which of the two arrangments are more neutral |
Thanks for your input behnegan@bc.edu. I too feel that I am getting good performance by doubling up on 4tc. I definitely like the sound better than single runs of 4tc.
Now I'm looking for some good interconnects ($300/less/1-meter pair/RCA). Any thoughts?
Thanks |
So what is the correct way to "double up" a cable for biwiring? Do you run both positives down one run of 4tc and the both negatives down a second run of 4tc, or do you run positive & negative for the woofer down one run of 4tc, and positive & negative down for the tweeter down the second run of 4tc? |
Todster,
The latter is the right way to biwire, because the main reason to biwire is to separate the highs and lows. I should not that I was not biwiring. I was simply doubling up 4tc to increase the aggregate gage of my wire.
2chnlben,
I am happy with my homegrown audio silver lace, but if I were to buy a new interconnect today I would try something with Eichman plugs. I have not tried them, but their principle makes sense. There was also a recent discussion in Audioasylum for an interconnect without connectors, which seemed very interesting. The idea was to attach the negative wire with an 0 ring.
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behnegan,
I recently heard that the Homegrown Audio Silver Lace is excellent. My system tends to be on the bright side, I wonder what that IC would do, since it is silver??
Todster,
Each "single" run of Kimber 4tc is actually one pair, with the positive and negative braided together. To double up, take two single runs (2 pair) and twist the all of the positive ends together and all of the negative ends together, then connect to the top; do the same for the bottom. You'll actually have four single runs (4 pair) in total, for each speaker.
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2chnlben: My experience with Homegrown Silver Lace is that it can work well reasonably well with tubed gear but i personally would NOT recommend it for use with SS gear at all. If you are having problems with excess brightness now, this cable will not help and may actually make things worse. Sean
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Thanks Sean. That's what I thought might be the case. I have been using some older AQ (Lapis). I imagine that the Lapis may be contributing to the bright side. You've been most helpful with your advice and suggestions regarding IC's. I took your advice and checked in to the VH Pulsar. I haven't made a decision yet. I did email Chris, who suggested that his IC's would not add any brightness. I'm still looking for some good deals on used Audience, Coincident and Music Metre. I think I should stay away from silver. From what I've been reading, the VH Pulsar are an excellent performer for the price. I took your advice and threw some cheap Monster in for now. I can hear the difference between the Lapis. While the Lapis may be a little edgy, the Monster seems slower and slightly mushy in the bass. |
2chnlben,
I agree. If your system is already on the bright side, they will not help your system and might make things a bit worse. |
