Welcome to Audigon. I see you just joined. Great that so many other first time posters here are into headphones.
Does a balance headphone exist?
Like headphone is good in every department. Bass , misd , treble , soundstage. Tonal , timbre.
It's balance. There's no outstanding part that's shine but like an general overall headphone?
Does these type of headphones exist?
Cause so far I seen doesn't matter cheap or expensive it's always some drawbacks.
And most headphone Excel at their own parts. Senn for the mids. Akg k series for their soundstage.
As for hifiman I don't know what department they are good at . But I do like the vocals sounds airy on the he400se. Which is crazy imo. Yeah.
8 responses Add your response
Welcome here ... I think that there is no "perfect" headphone...There is only a S.Q. /price ratio... A balanced headphone for me is difficult to define but very difficult to bought.....
Did we spoke only about a balance between 50 hertz and some high precise hertz ceiling? Or do we spoke about a headphone able to give bass with depth and clarity near 30 hertz and extension with the most exquiste non fatiguing high? Or do we spoke about mids frequencies rendition so beautiful and enebriating as in the Stax Sr-5 gold for example but with a high roll off in the bass ? For me the Stax Sr-5 gold is unbalanced if i refer to a speakers system in an acoustically controlled room as reference, but for Stax designer this headphone is well balanced and for me it "appear" to be so at first when i bought it...But knowing what i know now i will never describe it as balanced because of his limiting window with a high floor limit over 50 hertz... For me balance means an headphone with no boominess at all, deep extended bass, non fatiguing sharp highs frequencies, natural timbre and voices, natural does not means beautiful here ( mids of the Stax are more beautiful than natural) ... Then not only beautiful mids frequencies as in the Stax SR-5 gold case but beautiful in the deep bass too ... I encountered it only with one headphone and this headphone is so hard to set right i cannot even recommend it to everyone... The Akg K340... My point here is an headphone unable to give bass near 30 hertz with clarity and extension, and mids completely separated from the bass and violin highest note with a color to die for is not balance and cannot be...Most headphones are unbalanced for me, at least my 9 past one were each one was unbalanced in his own way... A singular driver headphone with his own frequencies limits specs may be called "balanced" by the designer and reviewers...But if this headphone cannot give non fatiguing highs, or deep bass heard by my feet and body, by bones resonance effect, as with speakers by the waves pressure felt by the body , it is an unbalanced headphone, so balanced it is supposed to be in the marketing publicity with their own fixation around the mids equilibrium ... Yes i am very hard and demanding in headphone evaluation because i come from speakers experience in a dedicated room and i compare headphones with speakers balance in a room and i ask an headphone which will be described as a speaker-like balance soundfield ... ... It is only my opinion though and i am not at all an expert in headphones nor in speakers ... But i am in heaven now with a truly balance headphone after 6 months of optimization around it... Then for me a truly balanced headphone is a rare gem...not a common products at all... And if an headphone sound only inside the head with an headphone feel instead of a speakers feeling outside or around the head it is unbalanced headphone for my ears... |
Big +1 @mahgister It’s not only about balanced tonality but also imaging and soundstage. For me, if everything sounds like it’s inside my head it’s very limiting and not enjoyable, so overall “balance” can mean different things to different people, as always. But I have two pairs of Hifiman open-back ‘phones (HE400S and Arya Stealths) and find them to sound very neutral and balanced while also offering very good “out of the head” imaging/soundstage. Of course your choice of amp, DAC, cables, etc. will significantly influence whatever “balance” you ultimately achieve as well, so it’s obviously not just about the headphones. It’s the whole “the chain is only as strong as the weakest link” thing that’s pervasive and unavoidable throughout audio. |
Thanks for your post and appreciation... And you are right about the complexity of these concepts : "balance" is complex concept because it is not only a measurable quantities relating to some frequencies ratio it more so and importantly an acoustically felt impression associated to a soundfield 3-dimensionalities dynamics.. ... And after timbre and distortion rate , the soundfield most important characteristics is not only the traditional two factors : imaging differentiation and soundstaging global dimensions but also Holographical VOLUME dimensions associated with each sound source or instruments or playing chords ... These three factors constitute "immersiveness " quality of an headphone if the timbre is right and the distortion factor low...
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Like headphone is good in every department. Bass , misd , treble , soundstage. Tonal , timbre. It's balance. There's no outstanding part that's shine but like an general overall headphone? Does these type of headphones exist? Cause so far I seen doesn't matter cheap or expensive it's always some drawbacks. And most headphone Excel at their own parts. Senn for the mids. Akg k series for their soundstage. Like headphone is good in every department. Bass , misd , treble , soundstage. Tonal , timbre. It's balance. There's no outstanding part that's shine but like an general overall headphone? Does these type of headphones exist? Cause so far I seen doesn't matter cheap or expensive it's always some drawbacks. And most headphone Excel at their own parts. Senn for the mids. Akg k series for their soundstage. https://xrank.one/xvideos/ As for hifiman I don't know what department they are good at . But I do like the vocals sounds airy on the he400se. Which is crazy imo. Yeah. As for hifiman I don't know what department they are good at . But I do like the vocals sounds airy on the he400se. Which is crazy imo. Yeah.
I got this,.. |
You said it well : balance... But this is for the frequencies scale... The other part of the S.Q. for an headphyone is way more difficult to do right : acoustic of and inside the shell... Most headphone dont adress shell acoustic and his impact on psycho-acoustic translation by the brain ... Then most miss in the most important element of " immersiveness" for me , not imaging, not soundstaging ,not timbre, not dynamic, not mere balance but especially holographical 3-D volume associated with each instrument in a variable soundstage not a fixed one once for all...
Welcome here and my best to you...
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I think @magister has nailed it with the word “immersiveness.” Not even sure that’s a real word, but it should be. If you aren’t “immersive” in ur headphone experience, then what do u really have here? U have nothing. Search for “imersiveness” in headphones or search nothing. It is the end all be all of HeadFi listening. Full stop and @magister has absolutely nailed it IMHO. |
The soundfield, when timbre experience and low distortion are achieved , the soundfield of headphone or speakers had three components NOT ONLY TWO: ---Imaging differentiation of the sound sources one relative to the other... --- soundstaging dimensions of all sound sources put together... the sound stage must be variable accordingly to each recording... A fixed soundstage is not a good thing in a room or in headphone...A fixed soundstage reflect some lack in acoustic control...Because dimensions of the soundstage must be fixed by each album recording trade-off and location...Not by the headphone drivers or speakers...The shell/cup chamber of an headphone is for his driver in the same relation than the room for the speakers... But because there is NO crosstalk in headphone achieving speaker life soundfield with headphone is VERY difficult... I disliked most headphones because of that... But some headphone are acoustically better than most... There is more than just a driver qualityfor the headphone S.Q. ... --- Holographical 3-D dynamical perceived VOLUME of each sound sources or of each playing chords...
Immersiveness is the sums of these three factors of the soundfield... I spoke after my experience and listening optimizing experiments with a dedicated acoustic room and after headphone optimization...I dont speak about a brand name price tag here... But about basic knowledge used in concrete electrical, mechanical and acoustical simple experiments ...Saying that few bucks speakers will be inferior to top costly speakers is only a common place fact without need to be said... Acoustic knowledge is more important than price tag...
I will define acoustically "immersiveness" as a rightful balanced ratio between the "sound source" perceived factor (ASW) in differentiation, dimension and holography and the "listener envelopment" felt factor (LV) , this ratio( ASW/LV ) implicate also that the timbre experience is right to begin with , that the distortion rate is low already and that these two factors are already settled, then if imaging is optimally differentiated and the soundstage dimensions may VARY according to each album recording situation and is not fixed once for all ... If each sound sources own his own volume in space and is not reduced to be a small surface,which i called the holographical factor then Immersiveness conditions are there... When a system is set acoustically right people forget sound as a negative limitation and are immersed in pure perceived sensible meaning which we call music... Upgrading is meaningless or not attractive anymore...
Then thinking about audiophile sound, dont think first about money, think about basic knowledge and listening experiments... If you want to put no EFFORT and no learning work at all, buy a 50,000 bucks system and call it the best in the world... Perhaps it will be, but perhaps not... Me i will be happy with my low cost mine...
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