goldmanjay sez: - "... would you be the least bit hesitant to buy or sell something from a party in say, Nigeria?
Hey, go easy on Nigeria. It was only two days ago that an honest banker from Nigeria sent me an Email to tell me that I had inherited $20,000,000 from a "secret source." He was kind enough to give me the key to the "secret source." for only $5000. I paid the fee and as a result, he's sending the bank check for the $20m via priority mail. I should have the money in another day or two. Ha! Nigeria a ripoff? No way, Jose ... Frank |
Geoffkait sez ...
Yer showing yer age ya old hippy, ya. :-) Frank |
Get the money first then you can send the merchandise to Thailand... |
talk2me OP320 posts07-08-2017 4:17pm^ My last name is not Bush.
Than follow EBM's great advice! |
Only sell in US lower 48 states to buyers with at least 2 pages of killer feedback.
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^ My last name is not Bush.
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gud u can now officially declare war on Thailand. |
To goldmanjay: I love when bleeding heart liberals wave the racism card. Is it because by they have no other recourse? I was pissed off for the fraud committed by someone from Thailand. And, I was warned by several members here on A-Gon to be aware of buyers from Thailand. Obviously, I do not mean every single person from Thailand. And I truly mean that. So, my apologies to most members from that country, but not all. Sure, members need to be careful of all countries, but, I am talking about my experience, not others. Racism would be if I said people from a county were inferior to me, which I surely have not. I was warned, and I warned, end of story.
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sabai wrote, "...US patriotism -- in fact any patriotism -- is just plain silly."
That does a great dishonor to real patriots who have sacrificed, literally, life and limb so "enlightened" people like yourself can safely spout such drivel.
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To those bleeding hearts who insist on pretending that national origin is meaningless when it comes to predicting honesty and fair business practices would you be the least bit hesitant to buy or sell something from a party in say, Nigeria? To start waving the racism card while denying that some cultures conducting unsavory business practices is almost a national pastime is the height of naive wishful thinking. |
dragon_vibe,
I agree with you that US patriotism -- in fact any patriotism -- is just plain silly. It can also be very dangerous. |
Unfortunately their are some patriotic minded fools which trying to convince everyone the rest of the world are just a sham and its best to buy local American Made Products. This level of thinking is what sets people back.
Iv seen some Crappy and Good Quality products from the USA. The Same Applies to the rest of the world. This American Patriotic attitude is just plain silly.
Some of the best build quality, service and support has actually come from England and EU. Not from USA. |
dragon_vibe,
I have also been scammed by more sellers and buyers from the US than from any other country. But this does not prevent me from doing business with the US. It all comes down to honest people and dishonest people. It's the luck of the draw no matter what country we are talking about. |
Their are scammers and good people in every country. What i hate so much is some of the US peeps claims that the rest of the world are scammers and its safer to do business locally. That’s total crap. Iv come accross alot of scammers in the USA too and been ripped off by US sellers more than anyone else outside the USA.
You don’t see me posting telling the rest of the world stay away from the USA???
Its pot luck. |
talk2me,
The OP is entitled "DO NOT SELL OR BUY FROM THAILAND". And now you claim "I am not saying anything against the great country of Thailand". Does anyone notice the contradiction? |
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Tubegrover, all gear is system dependent. The Stealth speaker cables I had were awesome in my system, but I on a personal note, I needed more slam and body. However with my new cables I did sacrifice the deep sound stage. I have a $24,00.00 pre, $36,00.00 speakers, $15,00.00 amp, $10,00.00 Runco, $7500.00 DAC. I and have been in this obsession since 1973, when I decided in high schaool to spent all my money on a stereo system instead of a muscle car.
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What is ignorant is a person who does not warn or say what happened to them. I have recorded pm's from esteemed A-Gon members who warned about Thailand buyers/sellers. I am a A-Gon member for many years buying and selling. I am not saying anything against the great country of Thailand, just warning members here. AFTW, A-Gon has helped me out.
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Sorry talk2me, the stealth cables ARE a ripoff as far as I'm concerned. I listened to 3 beta pair in my system many years back loaned to me by an audio friend for my thoughts, 5k a pair at the time. Plenty of detail but devoid of any musicality, amusical at the extreme. I was astounded that they cost and sounded the way they did. Each pair I added compounded my impressions. I seldom have had such a negative visceral reaction to an audio component except in this case, well warranted particularly at the price point this stuff was selling for. But then again maybe not a synergistic match with my system or so I thought, no, same impression in a friends system. I never got why people liked these cables or the buzz surrounding them at the time and then the justification for their price. The poster child for snake oil. My only reason for posting this most negative impression is the price charged for Stealth cables.
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ebm,
Yes the cables are expensive, but are no way a rip-off (we all know the mark up an cables. Like 5000 %?) They produced the deepest sound-stage I personally have heard. I bought Prana Wire Cosmos which added a little more body to my system. These 2 cables destroyed my old Jena Labs 19 cables. Just my opinion.
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Tammy at A-Gon came through and realized this thief. She is spectacular, and a great credit to this community.
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Had Stealth cables only had buyers in Viet Nam and Thailand i new they were all rip-off artists so i did not sell to them.I dumped all my Stealth rip-off cables at a big loss however i got cables that were much better.Stealth is a high markup big rip-off outfit that has 0 resale in the USA. However there are honest buyers in these countries however i didn't come across any. Good luck live and learn!! |
Sorry for the typo. This should read:
I agree with your observations regarding government. |
schubert,
Once again, you are making an erroneous assumption. I am not a peer and never have been. I sell and buy audio equipment strictly on a personal basis for my system.
I agree you observations regarding government. |
Odds are Audio is a small niche , you are a peer in that group not a retail customer .Simple.
Obviously Governments do the most screwing, In US it took thirty trillion $$$$ of private debt and made it public debt, biggest screwing in human history . |
schubert,
The kind of generalization you are making is nonsense. Books on Asian culture do not tell the whole story. Face is big in Asia -- but not only in Asia.
I live in Asia. My wife is Asian. I know lots of people in high end audio all over Asia.
If screwing customers in Asia is to be assumed in transactions then how to explain that I have never had a single problem doing audio business here. I have done audio business with Indonesia, India, Vietnam, Japan, South Korea, Hong Kong, Malaysia, Singapore and Thailand.
Talking about screwing customers, governments all over the world screw the people. Why not start with that generalization. You might find more people agreeing with you on that subject. |
If you had bothered to read books on Asian culture you’d know that merchants in many cultures lose face with peers if he does not screw the customer.
People have the same basic needs everywhere but cultures meet them in different ways .
Goes WITHOUT saying there are good and bad everywhere .
There ARE good countries and there are bad countries , a person is not a country .
Best countries I have lived in are Finland, Germany, Canada and Japan .Of course
racism is evil , also rampant in American culture , odds are a white man from Alabama
is more likely to hold racist views than a white man from Norway .
Odds, not a given . |
chrshanl37,
I agree with you completely. I have lived in 9 countries and now reside abroad. There are bad and good people everywhere. Country of origin is a predictor of nothing at all -- except racism on the part of those who want make one country look bad -- or worse than others. |
+1 Sabai This reminds me of the nonsensical comments people make about not buying gear from certain countries because they had a bad experience therefore everything made there must be junk.
Blanket statements are completley ignorant. |
Do laws make a country free of fraud? What about countries with lots of fraud laws on the books that are still rampant with fraud? In any case, how would a law on fraud protect you from a dishonest audio seller -- in any country? What are you going to do? Take them to court?
With all the laws on fraud in the US, I have been ripped off more times by Americans than by any others. I think we can all come up with a few instances of obvious fraud in the public sector to debunk the notion that laws on fraud protect anyone -- in any area of life.
Regarding audio, the contrary also applies. Just because a country has inadequate fraud protection does not mean that an audio transaction will automatically go bad. I have done lots of audio business with Thailand without a single problem. In the end, it is the individual who makes a transaction go right or wrong, not the law. |
Why is rather obvious , one of the many places with few laws on fraud et al and you have no access to them in any event . |
tubegroover,
You're welcome. No problem. |
Thanks Sabai, I totally agree but apparently was unclear in my first response, oh well. |
tubegroover,
My point is simply that Thailand is no worse than anywhere else. |
bar81,
Exactly. We don't have that here.
The probability or odds that schubert talks about is a supposition that is not based on proven facts. In fact, no one can point to any country as being a culprit, as a whole. There are only individual transactions that have gone wrong -- from every country imaginable. |
Why is Thailand worse than anywhere else? Precisely, exactly my point, the general labeling of a people/country as being intrinsically dishonest as inferred by the op, what am I not making clear? I am unclear on your point Sabai, it seems we are in general agreement at least based on your last post.
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So, you had a bad experience with someone in Thailand and thus, the next logical step is to issue a warning against the country as a whole? If there's a pattern of behavior from a country's residents, I can see being more cautious when dealing with people living in that country, but we don't have that here.
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Why is Thailand any worse than anywhere else?
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schubert,
In which case you are anticipating catastrophic consequences based on the worst possible outcome and then everyone stops trading. |
Actually, your reasoning is irrational , sabai.
If you ignore probability or "the odds" you are a fool .
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knghifi,
I agree with you that avoiding a country is irrational based on a transaction.
tubegrover,
You could say the same thing about the US or anywhere else if you got ripped off by someone from that country. In which case all countries must be avoided since every country imaginable qualifies. Your reasoning leads to that conclusion. |
+1 Kinghifi,Tony this isn’t about getting "ripped off" and him being understandably upset, it’s about Thailand buyers/people are dishonest, YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!!! What is so hard to understand about that? The reason that this thread has as many responses as it does along with the belligerent counter responses of talk2me, example, "First of all lewm, do you have a job?" Why the hostility?
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Look, the guy got ripped off and he's upset. Who wouldn't be? That doesn't make his post correct. Maybe same reason he got ripped off ... was desperate and made irrational decisions? He's just trying to warn you so you don't repeat his experience. He admits he made mistakes, but that doesn't make him an idiot. If warning not to be an idiot is fine but to avoid a country is irrational based on A transaction. |
This thread only confirms that there are scammers everywhere. There are a lot of ridiculous responses posted here. Look, the guy got ripped off and he's upset. Who wouldn't be? He's just trying to warn you so you don't repeat his experience. He admits he made mistakes, but that doesn't make him an idiot. Also, relating a story about being ripped off by someone in Thailand doesn't make him a racist!
Obviously, buying locally minimizes the risk. Cash and carry is even better. Any time a buyer wants you to ship to another address, he's likely to be a scammer. Who (normally) does that? Scammers, that's who! I thought this forum was a little higher minded than to ridicule someone about their misfortune. Maybe I was wrong. |
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Got screwed 5 time, all 5 times were from USA. 4 times as a buyer and one as a seller. Only one of them was throught Audiogon, one from Canuck audio and 3 on eBay. Normal as I only buy from US and Canada.
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dragon_vibe
I agree with you completely. I have also sold gear all over Asia. But I do believe the OP since I lived in Thailand for years. However, I cannot ever remember being scammed by anyone in Asia.
But I may note that I was ripped of by Rick Schultz of High Fidelity Cables in the US, Hegel in Norway, the UK distributor for Einstein Audio, and a number of dishonest Audiogon sellers as well as dishonest Ebay sellers. You might as well paint the whole world of high end audio as being dishonest. But, thankfully, most of the people I have done audio business with have been totally honest.
There are indeed idiots everywhere with no ethical practices when it comes to business. It is always caveat emptor -- may the buyer beware.
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I would worry more about
China |
So just to be clear, you sent some expensive stuff, to someone you didn't know without being paid for it first? And this makes it Thailands fault?
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I've sold to Thailand, Hong Kong, Russia, Brazil, Italy ... without problems. There are honest and dishonest people all over the world and to make a blanket statement about Thailand is ignorant.
You were desperate and made mistakes so takes some personal responsibilitie instead of blaming a country.
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