Discrete R2R Ladder dac from Soekris, Absolute Sounds review.
Very affordable highly regarded discrete R2R dac from the Dutch. The few that own them here and elsewhere are over joyed at the sound that these dacs can make, and Soren Kristensen is held in very high regard as a digital designer. https://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/soekris-dac1421-dac
What are we buying in that it weights only 1.5 KG?
Don't things like heavy duty supplies, etc. matter in DACs or does this start to get into the law of diminishing returns as you pay for big power supplies, etc.?
Just asking as I like my Theta ProBasic III, which weighs in at 25 plus pounds; but keep wondering what I might be missing by not trying a light weight DAC.
These are not mega dollar units, and are "discrete R2R", yet they're getting the reputation as being giant killers, that why I said "very affordable" at $899, see if you can find a discrete R2R dac at or near that price?? And the reviewer put it up against far more expensive units at twice the price.
The Link is to a Page that has a lot on exchanges about a Soekris DAC, that was purchased as a device to further a Long Time User Vinyl Enthusiasts experience of using a DAC as part of a Source in their system.
The Thread is compiled of responses from a Group of individuals, where some of the responses are from a few who have Numerous Years of Combined Experience in their Enthusiasm for HiFi.
The Purchaser of the Soekris does manage to elevate the Device, offering a good appraisal.
Okay, a new Soekris DAC 1421 arrived at my house yesterday. Right out of the box it was ugly - thin, one dimensional, and bright.
Twenty hours later and I am starting to be impressed compared to my old Theta ProBasic III. More detail across the whole audible range, I think, is translating into better ambience, soundstage, imaging, and liquidity.
So now that you have helped me to upend my apple cart; should I quit thinking about an end game DAC (for my price range) like a Bricasti, Metrum, Mojo Audio, or Schitt?😉
Try direct also for a while and let us know where on it’s volume control you are? As I’ve found with my discrete R2R, what I thought were "so so" old recordings were actually very good, and it just took a discrete R2R dac to make me realize it. Now I’m listening to all those old ones I never liked in a very new light.
I am going from Soekris DAC direct to DNA-500 to Thiel CS5i's. No separate preamp.
Listened to John Hiatt "Walk On", Adele "19", and Grant Green "Idle Moments".
Not sure how accurate this is with Google Play Store "Sound Meter":
Soekris volume control set at -22 and Sound Meter is measuring hi 70 to low 80 Dbls.
Soekris volume control set at -27 and Sound Meter is measuring hi 60 to low 70 Dbls.
Soekris volume control set at -29 and Sound Meter is measuring hi 50 to low 60 Dbls.
Soekris volume control set at -31 and Sound Meter is measuring low 50 to hi 50 Dbls.
Initial thoughts about the sound I am hearing
without the CJ 17LS2 preamp: Almost/definitely uncomfortable at higher volumes More detail More contrast between highest and lowest notes More ambient information - deeper soundstage, maybe? Feel like I am listening to more sound but less music?
Maybe I have to get used to it and then go back to preamp or preamp/old DAC to really tell what sounds better to me.
Yes and fine tune just like you would have with the preamp in, speaker angle maybe don’t now sit on tweeter axis, angle speakers outwards more this will also give more imagining outside the speakers, and soften the tweeter a touch like the tubes do, interconnects also, etc etc Cheers George
Okay, I think the affair is over with the Soekris direct into the amp .
This is how it starts, you’ll be back, maybe not tomorrow looking for things you mentioned by going direct that are now missing with the pre in.
More detail More contrast between highest and lowest notes More ambient information - deeper soundstage, maybe?
I’d add to those maybe also bass definition and depth.
Same happened to me. It just a matter of fine tuning when going direct, like you spent with the tube pre in, not just over night tune, probably months?
Not to drive you nuts but I have questions that reflect my ignorance and would appreciate your further explanation:
The Soekris DAC digital volume control specification is -90 dbl to +10 dbl. It also says the line outout is 2 volts.
In the Control volume with DAC or Preamp? you commented "...Unless there’s some problem, the lowest noise is always achieved if you use all or most of what the source has to offer..." So is that at 0 on the DAC volume control or somewhere else? Or does it not matter?
If I am hell bent on hearing some "tube magic" with a solid state amp, I need to use a tube preamp. In that case, where should I set the volume on the DAC? Is it the same answer as above?
I am switching back and forth with the preamp in or out of my system and want to maximze the best quality signal from the DAC with the preamp in to give the best comparison.
Or does this just get down to what I think sounds the best?
If I am hell bent on hearing some "tube magic" with a solid state amp, I need to use a tube preamp. In that case, where should I set the volume on the DAC? Is it the same answer as above?
At least 70% or more so your sure it's not "bit striping" If your hell bent on tube sound, use a tube pre with little or no gain. A Schiit Saga+ is tube and 1 x tube gain, and can also be used as a passive pre as well. https://www.schiit.com/products/saga-2
After rereading the manual, I found that there is a "Clip" light that must not show red so you turn down the volume until the red light does not flash.
What a great thing to have, to know when volume is too high and the load is too hard for the dacs output buffer. It’s got a distortion sensor that blinks the red led, nice. This will prove to you if it’s not loud enough direct and you need more gain from an active preamp.
" “CLIP” indicator: Will blink when the DAC output signal is clipping. You should not turn the volume knob higher than to where the red “CLIP” LED will not blink."
And it may blink at different volume positions, depending on what load the dac’s output buffer sees, (the 10kohm of the DNA-500 or the variable input 30k -120k of the CJ-17LS2 depending on it’s volume position.)
So if you’ve just turned it back down a little from where it blinked, what’s that volume like when you go direct to poweramp?
Settle petal, don’t get around/couldn’t be bothered searching.
I said in my opening post "digital designer" not just dac’s
Just search at DiyAudio with conversations he has with digital gurus over there and with the likes of Nelson Pass and John Curl etc. Then look at his family digital communications business in Denmark. I believe this Dac part is just for his musical passion and had to get involved in it.
Well Nelson pass is primarily an analog guy, ditto Curl, and so what w.r.t. his family business. It's a silly statement. He is likely no better (or worse) that 100's of thousands if not millions of engineers. DIY Audio is a good site, but not the panacea of leading edge.
Wow!!! well don’t buy one then, what’s your beef with the Danes, are you Swedish or Norwegian they don’t like them, suppose you don’t care for Gryphon amps either?
Like I said
Very affordable highly regarded discrete R2R dac from the Dutch
Find something else around $1k that competes sonically with discrete R2R ladder design, with all the features it has.
Soren Kristensen is held in very high regard as a digital designer.
This is essentially false advertising. You seem to take offence to anything related to snake oil, well this is a snake oil statement. It is at best your personal opinion. If this was a delta-sigma, you would probably say he was no good. Try to keep your bias out.
Listening to Bill Evans "Another Time". Eddie Gomez’ bass is sounding the best I have heard it with my setup.
Tight extended dynamics now, and the rest will be also, once you fine tune the system to this new sound. And you probably could have got the top Soekris, with the money from the sale of the
CJ 17LS2 preamp.
Just received Soekris dac2541. Out of the box, without warming up anything, just hooking it up and plugging it in, it is way better than my existing 5 year old, but highly regarded, R2R dac.
Like DSPER said: "More detail More contrast between highest and lowest notes More ambient information - deeper soundstage" Totally agree.
My intent was to listen to a less than $1000 DAC to see if that could make me happy. I found the Soekris DAC 1421 to be an improvement from my Theta ProBasic III as I have shared in earlier posts.
However...I had been reading about the Mojo Audio Mystique V3 along with other roughly $5,000 DACs. With all the recent press about the new EVO version from Mojo Audio, a couple of V3's have come on the used market. I pulled the trigger on one last week even though it was like four times the price of the Soekris. This is a lot of money so it was not a decision I made lightly.
My early listening results are astounding me. While I could debate how much better the Soekris was to the Theta, there is no doubt about the Mystique being substantially better sounding than the Soekris in my system.
The bass is better and I can hear the 25 HZ test sound on the Stereophile Test CD - 2. Instruments and vocals are more fleshed out combined with a much better sense of ambient space. Imaging is improved such that I can look directly at a speaker and "see" instruments in front of the speaker. That has never happened before.
Its like my Thiel CS5i speakers have come alive. They have sparkle and are not so polite. You may have noticed that I have been active on a couple of speaker threads as I was/am contemplating a move to higher efficiency speakers and tube amps. That is now officially on hold for at least a while.
Now, I have to admit that I have been playing with speaker placement, including toe in and distance. I will be reinserting the Theta in my system to hear what happens but am finding it hard to accept that speaker adjustments are making such a difference. I am pretty sure it is the Mystique...
More to come and your thoughts and ideas are welcomed.
got a hold of a soekris 1421 and am starting to listen... info in this thread has been useful
soekris manual says there can be remote volume control using an apple remote... will try this out too, as my preferred way of hearing a dac is direct into power amp, if the dac can control its output volume
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