Discerning a difference between streamers is difficult...only me or common for all?

Not too surprised by this streaming discussion. It’s apparent that if you have a well performing system, you will see bigger gains in other areas as the streaming factors have been advancing steadily over recent years.

The streamer vs. DAC chatter is an interesting one but amplification quality with speakers are big drivers and IMHO, the amplifier is the first place for investment then speakers. There’s a great level of improvement in the DAC and streamer world. Factoring in those gains is getting harder as the improvements in recent years with the tech have rapidly filled gaps.

I’d like to do more testing on the streamer side. I’ve made gains with fiber internet, then CISCO boxes and fiber running to a streamer. It sounds great in my system even compared against an M1 MacBook Air running Roon direct.

Roon seems to have made strong improvement to sound quality of late and running it direct through systems output versus a WiiM Pro with 5v external ps to an RME ADI-2 DAC is outstanding. I run unique tube amp mono blocks and recapped McIntosh LS340 floor standing speakers. 

Have never seen such a narrowing of sound quality differential with Roon direct streaming vs. RAAT streaming to date. That says a lot about the gap narrowing with the right choices along the way. Fiber is probably the biggest game changer (from fiber router) making these gains possible. YMMV

@romanesq 

I’ve made gains with fiber internet, then CISCO boxes and fiber running to a streamer......Fiber is probably the biggest game changer (from fiber router) making these gains possible. YMMV

I have read that a few times over the years, and saw some Youtube videos where some swore by it- cheapest tweak to improve your streaming sound. So I tried it-

I got a Cisco switch with sfp output, figured out how to configure it and entered the commands to get it to work, got a 50' fibre cable and the modules, and connected them after the router and before the EtherRegen. I believe I can hear the difference, but it is very slight, and I concluded that I prefer the generic cat7 copper ethernet cable over the fibre- less "glassy"  I get more of a difference in the sound by changing any other cable in my system. So for me it was a waste of $200, but you don't know until you try. 

I have read numerous posts from Lumin users who claim to get the huge "game changer" benefits you subscribe to. 

amplification quality with speakers are big drivers and IMHO, the amplifier is the first place for investment then speakers. 

It would be nice to get some ATC actives, or a Grimm system where one doesn't have to worry about this- I admit it does appeal to me. 

Yes, @mclinnguy, there’s numerous factors to weigh and consider often system dependent. As another small example, the Cisco Meraki was better than the Cisco Catalyst 2960. Had read about Meraki couplings and other adjustments. Removed the power supplies from the two Merakis and thought that was also a nice improvement. No digging into the settings needed on any of them. More improvement with choice of SFP too.

That narrowed the performance but the RME ADI-2 is the master via USB and so that application remained superior streaming via computer versus optical out from the WiiM Pro. (That too has changed ironically going back to Roon. Now Roon on the M1 MacBook Air is more dynamic and superior even using glass toslink.)

In some earlier configurations, I didn’t see improvement but learned along the way and have seen a remarkable improvement with the fiber aspects here starting from a Verizon fiber router to the streamer. Additionally, although I’m not a big cable guy, on the ethernet front I’ve seen a nice uptick in performance using Blue Jeans ethernet cables.

As the streamer technology continues to narrow audible improvement, performance is likely to be succeeded by elegance, usability options and ease of implementation. From this perspective, DACs may be more interesting in performance differences although I remain a believer in starting with the best amplification one can obtain, IMHO.

@romanesq 

You bring up a solid point. Amplification quality is crucial because it directly influences how well the entire system will perform, especially with speakers. A high-quality amplifier can bring out the best in a set of speakers, ensuring the nuances and dynamics of the sound are accurately reproduced. In contrast, a mediocre amplifier can bottleneck even the best speakers.

As for DACs and streamers, while improvements have been noticeable in recent years, I believe they’ve reached a point where further upgrades provide diminishing returns for many users. The differences becoming less perceptible to the average listener, especially when paired with good amplification and speakers.

That being said, finding the correct (synergy) amplification with speakers, is often the most tangible improvement and solid foundation for a system. After that, the incremental improvements from DACs and streamers easily more noticeable. 

As far as fiber optics or conventional copper LAN, whichever path one chooses; I recommend some kind of filtering ahead of your streamer or server can pay huge dividends, IME. 

Copper->Fiber->Copper didn’t work for me. Glassy and artificial in my system. 
I agree on the amplification being almost as critical as the speakers. Amplifiers make a huge difference. But…GIGO. You will hear all the upstream nasties better. On the other hand upgrade the source with a crappy amp and you have a bottleneck - you wasted $ and you’re unable to realize your source components full potential. It’s an endless loop but getting the amp right is still the most important piece (once your speakers and room acoustics are addressed).