Discerning a difference between streamers is difficult...only me or common for all?

@dhite71

I can relate to your experience with ARC components. Your observations aligns with the design philosophy of brands like Audio Research (ARC) and McIntosh. Both have a “house sound” that tends to smooth over external influences, ensuring system synergy and a cohesive listening experience.

The ARC DAC9, for instance is praised for its refined, slightly warm, and musical sound, but it doesn’t let the personality of upstream components—like streamers—dominate the overall presentation. This can indeed feel like a blessing if you’re aiming for consistency, as it prevents potential mismatches or overly analytical sources from disrupting ARC’s characteristic musicality. On the flip side, it might feel limiting or frustrating at times if you’re trying to extract the unique tonal nuances of a particularly expressive streamer.

Similarly, McIntosh gear is known for its “house sound,” which is often described as lush, smooth, and forgiving. This sonic signature can veil or homogenize certain upstream subtleties, but it contributes to the brand’s famous ease of listening and fatigue-free performance.

In both cases, it’s a testament to these brands’ commitment to their sonic identity, ensuring that the listener always gets an experience that aligns with their philosophy, regardless of what sits in the signal chain before them.

Would you say this neutrality has been a benefit in your system, or do you miss the opportunity to experiment with a more “colorful” front end?

I experimented with both brands for extended period of time and gave them up for the reasons outlined above :-)

@dhite71 

By no means, I expect or suggesting otherwise for you to start over. I was just sharing my perspective and experience with two iconic brands. Personally, I like to diversify and appreciate the nuances each component brings to the game so I sold off entire ARC system (Ref 6, DAC9 and GS150).

Coming back to your post, I recently sold off a $25K streamer in favor of a built-in Roon endpoint + Core + DAC. I couldn’t justify its existence in a direct shoot-out. Instead, I decided to focus on improving the signal quality ahead of streamer that has netted much bigger delta. There are few threads here that outlines improving wired signal to your streamer which is much likely to improve overall SQ of your existing streamer. If I were you, that’s where I should focus on instead of chasing down uber-expensive streamers. Cheers! 

@dhite71 

Experimenting with streamers in the used market is a smart and practical approach, especially when dealing with high-end gear like the Aurender N20 or W20SE. It’s a great way to explore different sound signatures and features that best suits your needs and also helps towards refining your system.

IME, N20 holds a sweet spot in Aurender lineup. 

@audphile1 

While I respect your opinion and take on Ref 6, I would like to point out an important distinction - you do not have an all out ARC system.  At the time, I was running Aurender N10 through DAC9 ➡️ Ref 6 ➡️ GS150 and I could discern no appreciable differences between N10 and BS Vault feeding SPDIF/BNC inputs of DAC9. 

Later, switching to EMM Labs DA2 DAC revealed the not so subtle differences between the two aforementioned streamers. So my previous post was strictly referencing my experience with N10/Vault in an all out ARC system. 

@romanesq 

You bring up a solid point. Amplification quality is crucial because it directly influences how well the entire system will perform, especially with speakers. A high-quality amplifier can bring out the best in a set of speakers, ensuring the nuances and dynamics of the sound are accurately reproduced. In contrast, a mediocre amplifier can bottleneck even the best speakers.

As for DACs and streamers, while improvements have been noticeable in recent years, I believe they’ve reached a point where further upgrades provide diminishing returns for many users. The differences becoming less perceptible to the average listener, especially when paired with good amplification and speakers.

That being said, finding the correct (synergy) amplification with speakers, is often the most tangible improvement and solid foundation for a system. After that, the incremental improvements from DACs and streamers easily more noticeable. 

As far as fiber optics or conventional copper LAN, whichever path one chooses; I recommend some kind of filtering ahead of your streamer or server can pay huge dividends, IME. 

“Copper->Fiber->Copper didn’t work for me”
@audphile1 

To my earlier post on your Aurender thread, if you eliminate the use of fiber optic cable between transceiver, you’re likely to hear much more organic presentation. It’s the darn conversion between the transceiver robbing the dynamics, IME. 

@audphile1

You’re correct in your understanding of the Telegärtner Opt Bridge 1000M. To clarify:

The Telegärtner Opt Bridge 1000M is indeed an optical isolator that performs copper-to-optical-to-copper conversion. It allows for electrical isolation between components in an audio or network system by converting the electrical signal (copper) into an optical signal, which is then reconverted into copper again at the output. This isolation helps to reduce noise, electromagnetic interference (EMI), and ground loop issues, which can degrade audio performance, especially in high-end systems.

As you noted, this can be thought of as a type of optical Ethernet filter. However, the Telegartner unit uses active conversion, which means it’s leveraging electronics to perform the copper-to-fiber and back process, rather than relying purely on passive elements.

This active conversion allows the Telegärtner Opt Bridge 1000M to offer very high quality and precision in the signal transfer, ensuring minimal loss or degradation in the audio signal while providing the electrical isolation that helps with cleaner sound in high-end audio systems. It’s essentially a high-end, purpose-built solution for isolating and optimizing Ethernet signals for audio.

I am hoping this would be my last upgrade as far optimizing streaming to nth degree with the addition of Hypsos Dual Output power supply :-)

@audphile1 ….are you going to try in your system?

@audphile1 👍

@yyzsantabarbara 

It’s great to hear that Rendu’s in your setup are delivering consistent results without switch-related concerns.

“I expect it to work perfectly”

@yyzsantabarbara 

Sure it will, otherwise it wouldn’t have made it through the QC test. The bigger question is - IF this switch is going to bring any audible improvement to your connected gear?