Directionality Explained

You will not find proof on these manufacturers websites other than them showing differences in measurements to other items of like kind and subjective options of what those measurements mean to the sound. No lawyer worth a damn is going to let a manufacturer of cables make definitive statements. Few years ago in the UK a man brought a complaint against a power cord manufacturer claiming misleading statements about the product. The first ruling was for the plaintiff but a subsequent appeals ruling overturned saying the manufacturer never explicitly said everyone would notice a difference and that in their research papers they never said any of the measured differences between power cords were necessarily audible. The reason no action is taken is the lawyers only allow weasel words in their claims to do otherwise invites LAWSUITS UNLESS they can objectively PROVE their claims. The legal lesson is free.

djones51

... I read the links I saw nothing actionable but then again I saw no evidence of anything said , that these products would definitely improve everyone’s listening experience.

I couldn’t have made it easier for you - I actually pulled exact quotes. WireWorld: "superior image and sound reproduction."

Maybe you prefer to go after Best Buy, which promotes an AQ cable that will "significantly increase the range of both color and contrast, which creates an even more vibrant and realistic picture." Wow! A claim of "significant improvement" should be easy for you to disprove, no? You can read the claim here.

It should be an easy matter to prove whether an image is better or not. That you’re not up to the challenge suggests you fear the result. C’mon, buy some WireWorld or AQ cables, demonstrate that the claim is false and get rich beyond your wildest dreams when you prove an entire industry is built on fraud. Good luck!

Does it say everyone will definitely hear a significant improvement? Significant to who exactly? Few hundred audiophiles or everyone? Nothing actionable in that weasel statement. No , it's not easy to prove whether an image is better or not, better to who? You're not going to find objective definable claims on universal sound characteristics and improvement in any of these manufacturers papers. 

Filing a claim against a cable manufacturer would be like suing Pepsi because I think Coke tastes better. You can't sue over marketing double speak that’s what got Listerine in trouble they made a definitive statement our product kills 99% of germs and they couldn’t prove it.

djones51

Does it say everyone will definitely hear a significant improvement? Significant to who exactly?

It claims to "significantly increase the range of both color and contrast, which creates an even more vibrant and realistic picture." You need only to show the jury that the claim is false. C'mon, file that suit and seek class action status. You'll get rich beyond your wildest dreams!

This might be an actionable claim, " everyone who uses our cables will definitely have "superior image and sound reproduction." Of course they would toss in money back guaranteed which kind of negates the "everyone" in their initial claim. 

"

significantly increase the range of both color and contrast, which creates an even more vibrant and realistic picture

." To who? Everyone? Couple hundred people? 10%of those who try it? You still are copying market speak approved by their lawyers. 

djones51

You can't sue over marketing double speak that’s what got Listerine in trouble they made a definitive statement our product kills 99% of germs and they couldn’t prove it.

Wow - now you can go after Listerine! It is made by Johnson & Johnson, a company with v-e-r-y deep pockets. That's probably a wiser target for you than suing anyone in the audio cable industry, because J & J is ranked by Fortune magazine among the top 100 US companies by revenue.

Here is J & J's claim for Listerine: LISTERINE® Antiseptic is a daily mouthwash that is clinically proven to kill germs that cause plaque, bad breath and the early gum disease gingivitis. LISTERINE® Antiseptic kills up to 99.9% of germs that cause early gum disease left behind after brushing.

And its claim that Listerine offers 21 percent greater gingivitis reduction than brushing and flossing alone is probably bogus, too. You're really compiling a preponderance of the evidence here and your suit isn't even filed yet.

You can read J & J's claims for yourself here. Why waste your time with the audio cable industry?

You read the links and saw nothing actionable? What you talkin about, Willis? 

Listerine , J&J was already sued for their claim which is why they don't make the claim anymore. They even had to run adds for a number of years admitting their claim was false. The claim was" Listerine kills 99% of the germs that cause colds", of course they couldn't prove it and lost. 

Pretty lame analogy. You little scamps come up with the craziest stuff. 🤪

You read the links and saw nothing actionable?

Correct. There are no definitive provable claims only marketing. Some hear, we hear , our customers hear, we measured differences (without claiming those differences are objectively proven to affect audible changes to all that listen) are  marketing claims nothing actionable I can see in them.

djones51

There are no definitive provable claims only marketing ...

A claim to "significantly increase the range of both color and contrast, which creates an even more vibrant and realistic picture" sure sounds definitive to me. But if you're a little uncertain about persuading a jury, make sure to file your claim in a state that recognizes implied warranties. Then you'll have all of your bases covered.

9 out 10 dentists reccomend our toothpaste! Is that an actionable statement? No, the dentists I know reccomend basically any toothpaste plus which 9 out of 10? It's why you don't see 10 out of 10. 

significantly increase the range of both color and contrast, which creates an even more vibrant and realistic picture" sure sounds definitive to me. 

Doesn't to me, that's why it isn't actionable. Definitive to who? It does all these wonderful things for who? 99% of those who tried them? Everyone? 1%? 

LOL pretty much every state has some language recognizing implied warranties which has nothing to do with whether or not someone can hear differences in wires. 

@cleeds   Anyone with a jones for benchmark can tackle this one for financial gain:

"SIT IN THE PERFORMANCE SPACE"

"Close your eyes and get ready to be transported!"

Claims for their DACs...   : )

I see nothing actionable in that statement. 

I kind of doubt anything in audio is actionable the way you define it. You pays your money and you take your chances. There are no guarantees in life. Especially in a hobby S subjective as audio. Geez o’ flip! People would be much better off generally speaking if they believed in too much rather than too little. and if skeptics were so smart why can’t they prove that fuses are not directional? Hel-loo! This all reeks of pseudo skepticism. No offense. You know how to get a stubborn donkey to cross the bridge don’t you? Hint, use two bricks. 🧱 

kind of doubt anything in audio is actionable the way you define it.

They way I define it the way a Judge would look at it and toss the suit  before it got anywhere. It's why I mentioned the Listerine lawsuit. They made a universal definitive claim. " Our mouthwash helps prevent colds" it was proven it didn't.  Most people think our cable improves image or whatever is not actionable and you will not see actionable statements in their marketing. 

I see nothing actionable in that statement.

You don't hear it either. : )

Neither do you.

I'm  sure I would believe I hear a difference but at least I would know why. 

People would be much better off generally speaking if they believed in too much rather than too little

They would be better off believing in reality and accepting their biases and understanding we all have them it's  not a human flaw just how we've evolved. 

My wife the attorney has explained all this to me when I read some of this nonsense and ask why the devil can’t these crazy cable companies be sued. Nothing definitive, nothing actionable. Is Coke better than Pepsi or viseversa?

Why don't you two just sue Best Buy for false advertising?

"SIT IN THE PERFORMANCE SPACE"

Benchmark's CAPITALIZED Words.

Nothing about hearing. Sitting, yes.

Pretty definitive. 

I don't want to sue anyone. To much trouble. 

No sit in the performance space is not actionable why the hell would anyone think it is? 

It's a claim Benchmark makes. How exactly does a DAC get me to SIT in a performance space?

SIT IN THE PERFORMANCE SPACE

Transparent sound can go beyond replicating the studio experience. Recordings that have been produced with a natural and unprocessed sound can transport you to the performance space. Close your eyes and get ready to be transported!

There you go , close your eyes and be transported.

Sorry, you need to do a lot better than that.

SIT. SIT. SIT.   

How does a Benchmark DAC make one SIT?

I closed my eyes and was transported. You lose your lawsuit. You might want to get a better handle on actionable claims. Did they say everyone would be transported or would sit in the space? Did they say it would cure your audio nervosa?

It made me sit by drawing me into that magical sound only Benchmark can produce. See how easy it is? It's called marketing. 

The Reasonable Person Test for Sitting is pretty darn straightforward.

How exactly does a product whose function is digital to analog conversion make a person sit?

It made me sit by drawing me into that magical place only Benchmark DACs can do.
Anyway as any Reasonable Person would understand they are using the definition of sit as being harmonious with, not literally sit. Maybe cable companies should be sued as any Reasonable Person wouldn’t think changing the direction of a wire is going to open the soundstage and make the noise floor lower and more dark.

What else you have Clarrence Darrow? 

What else you have Clarrence Darrow?

Name calling when one has nothing.

into that magical place

Does that mean you have nothing? No more idiotic comparisons where reasonable people know words in advertising can be used in ways besides the most common? 

 poor souls....

It took a single word to illustrate what you rail against.  The difference: a brand dear to you.

How about this, also bolded and highlighted and capitalized:

"BRING THE STUDIO INTO YOUR LIVING ROOM"

Wow...NOT the recording BUT the entire STUDIO. 

The gear, the personnel, the cables, the trash cans and leftover food and drink, the smell,....

Benchmark gear is something....

The claims are absurd, factually unsubstantiated nor have a legal leg to stand on.

If we're  going to use the Reasonable Person test cable companies better round up the wagons. I can't see the average guy in a jury noticing differences in wire direction or silver vs copper. Probably overturned on appeal though where it's judges looking at precedent. There's  a lot of leeway in advertising it's why there are so few successful lawsuits. 

Oh yes any Reasonable person would think Benchmark means an actual studio is transported to your living room. Benchmark isn't dear to me I sold mine no better than the DAC in my integrated. They make good DACs though but so does a lot of companies. 

The claims are absurd, factually unsubstantiated nor have a legal leg to stand on.

 Just advertising no worse than MSB or dCS and their overpriced stuff no better than a $700 ToppingD90

Maybe you are not a reasonable person.

Eight Hybrid DACs.

With eight Hybrid DACs, we yield an unmatched level of detail, reproducing the musicality, soundstage, and texture of an original performance, bringing the artist to you.

WOW , MSB DACs can Bring the artist to my house? How great is that!

This is reasonable right? A reasonable person is going to assume this is what MSB means? 

Maybe you are not a reasonable person.

True I'm  Probably no more reasonable than you. 

I do not doubt that you are indeed correct.

I wish I could have the last five hours of my life back. 🔙

"Why don't you two just sue Best Buy for false advertising?"

Because it is the best buy.

To stay on the topic, what toothpaste do you guys prefer?