I remember a story about stainless steel.
Properly manufactured stainless steel uses iron, nickel, and molybdenum blended to make a shiny and corrosion resistant metal.
A Chinese chemical plant under construction bought cheap stainless steel made in China.
The stainless steel maker had substituted another cheaper metal for the nickel. The resultant product was shiny but not corrosion resistant.
The chemical plant began to experience considerable corrosion after a few months and all of the "stainless steel" componentry had to be replaced with expensive authentic stainless steel. At considerable cost in labor and lost production.
Natural selection at the corporate level? |
My purchase was a 50 watt integrated amp - looked fantastic ,stainless steel chassis, cast aluminum tube cages, remote source switching/volume and it sounded pretty good, but under the covers...
The transformer was not built to 120v spec so the heater voltage tap was measured at 7.1v and not 6.3v as it should have been
- this caused premature failure of a complete set gold lion tubes tubes in 3 months
The circuit board had under rated pcb traces that had to be rewired
Some resistors were under rated for their duty - had them replaced
Capacitors used were sub standard for this type of component - had them replaced
I had it fixed for around $400 and it worked very well
After I had sold it (mainly because I was tired of heating my house every time I played music) I had heard that the output transformers were not a great quality either
Looks can sure be deceiving |
(http://news.consumerreports.org/safety/2007/06/can-you-trust-c.html) (http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/blog/2010/jun/29/dell-problems-capacitors) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague) (http://rendezvous.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/10/21/maggots-in-the-pasta-europe-screens-tainted-chinese-food/) (http://www.wnd.com/2007/06/41959/) (http://www.dailyfinance.com/2011/03/14/the-10-most-counterfeited-products-sold-in-america/) (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-11-07/counterfeit-parts-from-china-found-on-raytheon-boeing-systems.html) (http://news.sky.com/story/20576/fake-chinese-parts-found-in-us-planes) I find the last two especially disturbing, as I spent a lot of time in aircraft. |
Well I got my first bad component that was made in China. It was a used XiangSheng 728A tube preamp that was made a couple of years ago. The previous owner babied it and sent it to me in original packaging. I've bought from this seller before and I know his gear is well taken care of. When I got the 728A I was swapping out tubes and removed those metal retaining clips on the tubes and put the tubes I wanted to roll in. I thought I was being careful with the swapping but when all was said and done one of the tubes wouldn't light up. I had no sound from the other channels. I take the preamp to my tech and from what he saw the soldering of the sockets to the circuit board were shoddy. Also I managed to crack the circuit board as well. He said the quality of the sockets used to was so so. This is a budget preamp so I wasn't surprised about the quality of the tube sockets. The soldering as well as the cracking of the circuit board was surprising.
I've been good with the bevy of China made products I've boght. From Tube phonos, Amps and solid state preamps it has been a good experience. This one was a shocker to me. |
I worked as field engineer for a company that built power plants. We sourced main steam valves (valves that feed the turbine lines) to a Chinese oompany because of price. These valves have to be forged high strength steel alloys. Long story short, we discovered that the valves we installed were two piece welded. That was a disaster waiting to happen.
Ever since then, I shy away from made in china for everything. Every new baby food story etc reinforces the feeling. |
Been there - done that - got the repair bills
Won't ever buy components or wire from china EVER!,
Some iec connectors/plugs seem to be OK.
Since most stuff is built there these days its probably the same as with everything else - buy brand names! |
I also have a MacBook Air with no issues. I replaced my MacBook with it which was 6 years old when it finally died. So I don't think quality control is an issue with foreign companies in China who care about their reputation. |
Thanks to all who have responded so far. In a global economy, my question may actually be irrelevant. Everybody borrows( or is it steals??) from everybody else. Unfortunately, the days of economic nationalism are long gone. I say unfortunately because in the 1950's 60's and most of the 70's, American goods were in great demand because of the quality of American made products. |
Csontos, you're talking about Chinese companies. What about US or UK companies manufacturing in China (including Apple)? |
The issue with China is that everybody and his brother want to be in business making it very difficult to sort out the good guys from the bad. Their economy is growing at around 10% so lots of fly by nighters to worry about. The well established outfits turn out quality product. Give them probably another 20-30 years to sort it out but there's just too many people there to ever consider them reliable overall imo. |
Samick makes Greg Bennett (Guitar Player Editor Pick Award), Gibson, Epiphone, Hohner, Wasburn, Fender. Gretsch 5120 is also Korean (Peerless). Samick Gibsons are made in Cilesungi, near Bogor, Indonesia.
Samick has factories in Korea, Indonesia, China, Japan. I've read that Chinese guitars are the best of the bunch. It is estimated that Samick currently makes about 50% of world's guitars. |
that must be why Samick guitars are not very good. |
Management is more important than origin. Kentucky plant that makes Toyota Avalon is one of the best in the world (my 17 year old Avalon works like Swiss watch). I also have Mac Mini and Macbook Air, both made in China, with no problems whatsoever. The biggest distinction in electronics is technology. Hand soldering require skills and often leaves cold solder joints (RCA TVs were famous for that) or placement mistakes, but surface mount is a very well controlled process. Once it is set properly it works identical here or there. As for quality of the parts - a lot of them come from Asia anyway while list of approved sources is supplied by engineer. I wouldn't mix Korea into this because they have much higher standards (just look at Samsung). Samic, for instance, is completely automated Korean factory that makes guitars for many brand names. They just dial required components and machines complete the work. |
Oh, you mean products like Apple iPad and IPhone? |
I've often felt that quality control is a corporate choice. Like what kind of failure rate is acceptable for the brand and how much would it cost to reduce it.
I have had failures in notebook computers made in China. But they are complicated products, and I have had no notebook computers made in the U.S. So an apples to apples (sorry pun) comparison is hard.
The best comparisons would be between similar products from the same company but made in different locations. (e.g., BMWs made in Germany vs BMWs made in U.S.) There are a few high end companies that do sell electronics made in China and in the U.S., but I haven't seen any failure data to make a comparison. Has anyone else? |
see AGON thread:
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?bhome&1324311378
Arcam partial buyback
" .... Moreover Arcam pulled production of the AVR 600 from China to England in September of 2010 due to quality control issues. Since the AVR 600 has been made in England it has been more reliable...." |
Every country manufactures good and bad products. I think the reason China stands out so much in the bad department is the sheer volume of goods coming from there. When you produce that much volume, quality control is bound to suffer. My comments are directed toward the mass marketed aspect of manufacturing not the miniscule one man operations, that's another ball of wax entirely. Just my opinion, biased as it may be. |
