Difference between today and yesterday.

This always strikes me as a weird argument - that somehow older technology is supposed to be better. In nearly every area of edeavor/advancement technology is welcomed as improving results/performance. Yet somehow older audio equipment is supposed to be an exception. No way. I'd never trade the new gear with such fabulous sound for older equipment. And that's coming from someone who enjoys vintage gear; right now I have several pieces including amps and speakers which are considered past their time. They don't come close to the level of performance of the new equipment. There may be a few exceptions, extremely few. But to pursue older equipment unless on a tight budget. Never. There's an awful lot of subjective/nostalgic evaluation in the opinion that older/vintage equipment sounds as good or better than current offerings.

Eldartford confuses technique with technological advancement.

Eldartford, the error in your logic is that you compare a musical instrument to a technological product; apples and oranges. The only common denominator is music, but their purpose and operations are absolutely foreign to each other, so foreign that in the one case the item cannot play music aside from a system of contributing electronics.

You allude to the quality of the Strad - which is generally lauded for its craftsmanship/construction techniques. Whereas, development of technology is independent of that variable (there are good manufacturers and poor manufacturers). The violin is a technologically limited device, more a kin to a push reel mower. The components of today are an entirely different class, like the emergence of lawn tractors. The violin has seen virtually no radical departure in design, whereas components have undergone a sea change...

So, if someone makes a less impressive violin today their technique is not impressive. However, the move from push reel mowers to riding tractors is technologically driven (pardon pun). Maybe if someone had developed a better violin in the shape of a boomerang with the strings hung across the gap of the instrument that could be considered technological advancement. But let's not confuse the quality of violins years apart with the development of, say, tube amplification from the sixties to today's class D amps. In the one case, virtually nothing has changed, and in the other radical changes have occurred. etc.

Of course, one is entitled to their opinion of whether the changes are preferable. I see very few places in life where technological advancement is not to be preferred.

There is some serious Nostalgitis happening here.

Mrtennis, you have already determined that your vintage rig would sound better than ANY current combination of gear,
"i have a favorite stereo system from the 70's that i would prefer over any stsereo system comprising current-production components."

Evidently, you don't even have to hear today's gear to know it's not as good as your old stuff! Your reference is fixed emotionally with 1970's gear. Severe case of Nostalgitis.

Mrtennis, Bold proposition my friend! :) It's obvious you're quite confident in the quality of your vintage system. What are the components in it? What cables?

There are some other variables which make things even more difficult to isolate in terms of deeming certain speakers more "accurate" or true to life, such as:

Hearing loss due to age or exposure to too many dB's
Engineering of the disc/album
Equipment used in Engineering
Synergy (or lack of it) between components

I have not seen it discussed much, but I would assert that certain people innately (not learned, not through experience) are able to identify natural/true to life sound more accurately than others. In the same way that some can run faster, think more lucidly, etc. so also I would suggest that some have the ability to hear and identify with uncanny accuracy that which sounds most gratifying and natural to most people.

I, of course, am one of them! ;)

To the casual observer there are not many differences in bicycles either. Both are technological devices, and bicycles still look rather the same (save recumbent types), still use gears, handle bars, etc. But they perform vastly differently.
I would assert that to the casual observer speakers have not changed much, but indeed they have, and they perform quite differently as well. Changes have occurred in cabinet materials and design (including isolation of individual drivers), driver materials, surround materials, magnet sizes and types, etc. - speaking only of dynamic speakers here.

Ngjockey, You are absolutely right that drivers have shrunk in size. This is one of the biggest tragedies of modern speakers. There is NO replacing cone surface area when it comes to performance. Make the magnet as big as you want; No way on earth these puny 6" drivers will ever compare to an authentic 12" driver when it comes to reproducing bass. There is a discernable difference in the quality of the low end between smaller woofers and the ease of a larger driver. The push to crowd the HT market with skinny speakers has wreaked havoc on hi-fi sound. Sadly, it seems most audiophiles do not even realize how bad the situation is. It's authentically hard to find a true full range speaker that's affordable.

Shrinkage of the midrange is another travesty. Again, there is a HUGE amount of difference in quality between a 3-4" mid and a 7" midrange. The larger driver sounds vastly different. Smaller midranges may be tonally correct, but I have heard many which simply cannot convey the correct spatial clues of the voice because they are physically too small. It's similar to the performance of a 4 cylinder car's engine versus the 6 cylinder. Both can do 65mph, but HOW they do it is vastly different.

So, yes, I can certainly see how someone who hears modern speakers which can only go to 40Hz and the performers sound like they're miniature would prefer the good old speakers. But when speakers today are made to be actually full range, with sizable drivers which can actually reproduce the full spectrum of frequencies - only then is one hearing what the best of modern speaker design can do. Add to it quality 7" or larger mids and you have some superb speakers.

And, yes, my Legacy Audio Focus HD's have these features. I did the review on them and happily purchased them because they have these qualities which are missing in so many speakers today.

It is absolutely apalling the number of dinky speakers on the market. To obtain anything approaching a full range experience one has to try matching subwoofers, which introduces problems to the sound. Audiophiles wonder why the high end is not catching on with younger people as much as they'd like. So, this younger person goes to a specialty audio shop and hears a speaker with 6" drivers three feet tall? Their CAR audio system sounds better than that! Give 'em monstrous speakers which are truly full range, speakers which will shock them with the scale and power of audiophile sound and maybe they'll be impressed enough to want it. But they can't afford the $10k+ that's charged for most of those speakers; not many people can.

So many audiophiles are convinced that they have the greatest sound with speaker systems that don't even cover the entire frequency. At least the older speakers with 12" or 15" drivers brought some bass. That's likely one reason that they are still enjoyed, because they actually were full range.

Once you hear what a serious floor standing full range speaker can do, one that can get down to 20Hz and below, and has truly full midrange, you realize how the other contemporary designs are "cut off at the knees".

Pedrillo, the principle holds true generally for any speaker manufacturer. Take B&W for instance. I reviewed the CM7, which is lovely sounding but definitely a small floor standing speaker. B&W's largest speakers are an entirely different game. The pricing of the larger speakers is the killer for most potential customers.

Vandersteens are pretty good at enlarging the listening space with decent sized drivers. I think this is one reason they are so popular, because they're not handing the owner dinky drivers.

I have not heard the Silverline Grandeur II's, and they have only twin 9.5" woofers, but they spec out interestingly. Montana and ATC both have some larger speakers. Tyler has a pro line with some big drivers. I haven't heard any in this group.

I have heard some of the larger Usher models which fit the template I have laid out fairly well. Similarly, the VonSchweikert mid-level models use a 7" mid which is engaging. But again, there is typically bass with twin 8" woofers. One really needs subs to go with them.

Different technology: Magnepan 1.6's and Eminent Technology LFT-8B are both very good for the money. Both can use subs, moreso the 1.6's.

The planar 4" mid on the Legacy Focus HD is tremendously satisfying.

Pedrillo, Mathematically they may add up to the same pistonic area, but qualitatively they do not sound the same. Smaller woofers are subject to more of a "popping" sound as the excursion is more extreme when they attempt to move the air at lower frequencies. A larger driver has more surface area to do the same job and sounds more "at ease" doing it.

The best thing about your room is that it is not square, so you might be able to get away with a larger speaker in it.

Mrt, what can I say? That IS an exceptional vintage speaker! So, what are you feeding the Quads with?

This thread is a Mobius Strip; flips back around and goes nowhere.
Blessed Easter! :)