Diablo 300 DAC Module - upgrade DAC or Streamer?

This sounds like Deja vu post. Maybe you need a different amp

@thyname I did come across ONE post where someone switched from a Diablo 300 to a Vitus to get a more full sounding midrange.  I’ve not heard anyone else have this complaint however with this amp - have you? Not sure if that guy was using the Diablo 300 DAC module though, and maybe that was part of his issue.  I’ve read some posts where people upgraded to a standalone DAC from the Diablo 300 and they say they lost a “nervousness” and “edge”.  To me that sounds more likely?

I should stress that my issue only manifests on harsher recordings.  I have absolutely zero complaints with most music - 90% of what I play sounds fantastic.  But I’m willing to give up a small degree of performance for my system to be a bit less sensitive to more abrasive material where the midrange is rather hard in the recording itself.  That U2 song, Walk On, is a good example.  The next track on that album, Kite, is another great example, maybe even better.  Incredibly raw recording with intentional bluntness, that just becomes too blunt in the upper mids when my PhoenixUSB Reclocker is in the mix.  And I’m fairly certain it’s not the reclocker’s fault.

Another option I’m seriously considering is actually to just be satisfied without the PhoenixUSB Reclocker. While 90% of what I listen to won’t sound quite as good, the fact that the other 10% can actually be played and enjoyed might be worth it to me…. My system still sounds fantastic without the reclocker and I could see myself being happy with that.

The other option is spending quite a bit, and solving the issue with either a standalone DAC fed by my Innuos gear or a high end streamer/DAC combo….

Just tried it again and upper-mid tones definitely pop out from the mix and seem nearer to me when I put the PhoenixUSB back in. I suspect it’s the Diablo300 doing that when the signal input is cleaned up by the PhoenixUSB but that’s just my theory. It’s a sublime effect when the recording is also sublime, or even just decent. Not so much on mid-abrasive recordings.

OMG this hobby…. On a a whim I tried removing the vibration control I had recently installed under my Gryphon amp. Herbie’s Tenderfoot (firm) under a Butcher’s Block wood stand, with the amp on top. I was thinking that I hadn’t noticed this problem until recently and this was the only change I had made.

With vibration control removed, the abrasiveness on abrasive recordings is 100% gone. My system just got astoundingly better. Just a total sense of ease and “rightness” now.

Note that I have Herbie’s Tenderfeet under ALL other equipment, and Herbie’s sliding spike decouples under my speakers. They undoubtedly help my other components.  But for whatever reason, my amp did NOT like them. Could have been due to the fact that I had the butcher’s block on the Tenderfeet and the amp on top of the wood block.

Yet another revelatory moment on how massive of a difference vibration control can make. The first of these moments was how much better my system got with vibration control (without adding it to my amp). Second revelation was tonight - I now understand how you can TOTALLY mess up your sound if you get vibration control wrong.

My god I can’t believe I had forgotten my system sounds this good, and I can’t believe simply removing vibration control from my amp could do that. It was the only thing I had done since I started becoming a bit at odds with my system with some music. But I hadn’t done anything about it because 1) My amp is a beast and it is a chore, and 2) I didn’t think this could possibly be the issue. I’m so glad it was, and wow I’m happy now. No need to upgrade!! ..I know, crazy talk….

Well done. Asking “what changed” last just might be the first rule of troubleshooting. Sure beats getting another amp.

I’ve heard people complain about how Gryphon use “cheap” hard plastic feet for their amps. But my experience above makes me think this is very intentional.

Gryphon sells coupling spikes for their gear (stupidly expensive of course) but they clearly state they won’t help when used on their heavier gear like amps.

Still can’t get over how much of a negative impact the vibration control made with the amp. It was a massive change that anyone could hear. I think when I added the vibration control to the amp it was late at night and I didn’t immediately check for any difference in sound after installing. After all, I had previously installed Herbie’s Tenderfoots under the rest of my components with great success in improving sound, so I expected no less when using them on my amp.  And while it obviously caused issues for a few months I chalked it up to me having become more intimately familiar with my system including weaknesses.

Later I’m going to try adding only the Herbie’s feet under my amp’s feet, to see if they are the culprit or if it was adding the Butcher’s Block as well that caused the issue.

I have my Diablo 300 sitting on an Adona rack with it's granite surfaced multi layer shelving for a very solid foundation.  I considered other footer and isolation options but none I have borrowed seemed to provide any improvement at this point, though I'm sure there are other possibilities.  I find the Diablo DAC module works well with a quality server (which you have) and in my case the USB cable employed between them (I have spent time with 5 different ones since purchasing the Diablo 300).  I use Critical Mass Systems Rize footers under my DSA Phono 2 and My Wolf Audio Server.  I have considered the Critical Mass Systems Center Stage  2 as an option but they are a significant investment.

@drrsutliff thanks for your input. Currently I guess my observation is that adding vibration control, at least the type I used, was hugely detrimental to the sound of my amp. Which seems to possibly imply that the sturdiness and solidity of the foundation it sits on matters more.

I do have a heavy wood shelf that all of my gear sits on, but given the Diablo’s apparent sensitivity to the foundation it sits on, I’m wondering whether it’s possible to optimize this even more.

After removing the vibration control the sound has become much more solid, fuller and with more drive, energy, and far more bass response, with better soundstage depth and a more coherent and natural easeful presentation. Truly transformative.

Update:  currently I have 4 of Herbie's "Giant Fat Dots" between my wooden shelf my gear sits on and my wood floor.  I am now wondering based on my experience if instead of vibration control padding under my shelf, my amp would prefer it if I installed coupling spikes under my rack.  That said, I did notice a net gain in sound quality when I installed the 4 pads under my shelf.  But that may be due to the benefit to my other components.  Definitely warrants further experimentation I think, and this time I'll be more careful to gauge the impact of EVERY tweak.

These changes are all additive.  The combination of “under the shelf” plus “under the footers” may have been too much of a good thing.  Just one of those alone may be better than none at all.  If you are now at a place where the system is sounding  good relax for a while and enjoy.  Really take some time appreciate how it currently sounds before making any additional changes so that you have a new baseline to evaluate those changes.  Enjoy the holiday!

The Diablo’s DAC is supposed to be very good, so I’d look elsewhere.  Maybe the streamer, maybe the cables from the streamer? Maybe…

@drrsutliff thanks and good advice - I think I’ll relax and re-establish a baseline now that things are sounding fantastic again. @curiousjim per the thread my problem is solved.

I was actually up all night listening to music just because I couldn’t stop, and had to suffer through working all day with no sleep! To me a great problem to have… Finally back to listening to music and not having to listen critically, and no more slight depression creeping in while listening due to not loving my system… I think we’ve all been there?  Regardless it’s back to just enjoying the music now!

I was half scared I had imagined the improvement after removing the vibration control and just checked in again. Wow, blown away! Absolutely no desire to upgrade now.

It’s a good reminder how important it is to not to immediately blame a component when you add it to your system and the sound gets worse in some ways. In this case adding the USB reclocker revealed the flaw in my system caused by the vibration control under my amp. With less experience I might have blamed the Reclocker and concluded that reclockers make the sound unnatural. Which would not have been correct at all.