Bill,
Schubert and Isochronism are two former frequent contributors who have seemingly vanished from this forum. Regarding your listening room I believe that once you're done it will be exceptionally good sounding and visually pleasing as it will reflect your personal taste. By the way I like the wall color (my wife's characteristics have rubbed off on me over the years 😊).
Charles |
Charles, assuming I get anywhere with this project, I will post some comments on my system page. I don't have an ideal room, but it isn't all that bad, and it is dedicated to music and out of sight of visitors. So I have a bit more latitude to use treatments. Still, the room aesthetic is important to me. You, Schubert and I have discussed this previously. Glorious sound in a room that looks like a dump is not really going to get it done. Speaking of Schubert, anyone heard from him lately? |
Bill,
I'll follow your room acoustic developments with keen interest.
Charles |
Charles, The pictures are old. I have the woofers facing outward and that is the preferred orientation. The speakers are moved back from the listening position and now the rear ports are 18" out from the front wall. Israel lists that as the minimum acceptable distance from the wall. Moving the speakers closer to the wall than what you see in the picture really helped in this case. I have also changed some of the room furnishings, and undoubtedly, the room looks better with long wall orientation than it will look with short wall. I also have all of my dedicated circuits on the long wall, because the electrician couldn't add anything to the outside short wall without tearing out the drywall. That means if I use short wall orientation I am probably going to need some long speaker cables, which I'm not crazy about, but you do what you have to do. As far as going off topic, its not like that hasn't happened with us before. Good thing we aren't next door neighbors. Neither one of us would get anything done! |
Bill,
Looking at pictures of your room and it's really nice with generous space, it has obvious potential with the use of wisely chosen room treatment. Have you tried having the SV woofers firing outward? This was the better placement in my room but of course this depends on the individual room acoustic environment. I like your long wall arrangement it's attractive. True however that the short wall orientation would allow the SV speakers to be further from the rear wall. No question that you have a number of viable options. I have no doubt that you'll get it all figured out. Wow, I've really gone off topic on this thread. Bill you get me going 😊
Charles |
jbrrp, I am thinking about building my own diffusors, but I will probably purchase the bass traps and other absorbers. I have placed an order for Realtrap corner mondo traps, but they haven't arrived yet. I have found their website and a couple conversations with Ethan Winer to be most helpful in getting started.
Charles, the TE II's are in my downstairs system. The SV II's stay upstairs in my main rig. My bonus room presents some problems with full range speakers like the SVs, that don't manifest themselves with the TE's. I have been able to improve things substantially by moving the SV's closer to the front wall. Until I did that, the whole room was buzzing from about 50-120 Hz. Moving the speakers pretty much eliminated the room buzzing, but I am still faced with major non linearity below 300 Hz due to room nodes, back wall cancelation, etc. The traps should help with that, and we will go from there. Also, Ethan encouraged me to try again using a more standard short wall placement, which I initially rejected due to utterly unacceptable room nodes. If I can manage to make that work with the traps in place, that would allow me to have the listening position out from the rear wall. I suspect that once I get the room issues addressed, I'm going to find the SV's all I hoped they would be, and they will be as dear to me as the TEs are. This is the first time in my life I have ever owned a speaker with much of anything to offer below 40 Hz, so I am still learning how to make them work in my listening room.
Dan, indeed this retirement thing is a great gig! My time to listen is between 4PM and 10PM, at which point I usually turn into a corpse. My room is above the MBr, so I won't be doing any early morning listening with my late rising wife in the room below. I listen while my wife is making dinner or whatever, and she occasionally joins me upstairs for a listen. I don't listen on days I hike, so that leaves me with 3-4 days a week where I can get some good listening sessions in. Generally speaking, when I don't listen, it is because I am doing something I really enjoy, not because I have some mundane or annoying distraction to attend to. |
Hi Bill,
I'm glad you are finding the time to enjoy your music collection and system once again. Are you using the Coincident Super Victory or do you resort to the Triumph Extremes more often? I came so close to buying the SV but instead bought the Total Eclipse II. Probably couldn't possibly go wrong with either.
Charles |
Brownsfan: "
I'm just starting to delve into the world of room treatments, and I am going to be taking my time on this project and getting the room right. This stuff isn't exactly cheap."
If you are willing and capable of the DIY track, you can achieve very good room treatment without that much cost. I took this track, and it made very important and critical improvements in my listening experience. |
Hi Bill,
It's great to hear you're getting some quality listening time. For guys like us (and gals), it's a great thing. Some may think me crazy, but to take advantage of available listening time, all my listening must occur between approximately 11:00 pm-4:00 am, depending on when my wife goes to bed.
Being retired is a godsend, as my listening schedule is something I take advantage of every day of the week. If something upsets this schedule, I feel robbed. I'm fortunate my listening (living) room is separated enough from the master bedroom, and neighbors, that I can listen at any volume I choose, without disturbing anyone. For that I'm grateful. What a gift.
Regards,
Dan |
Bayreuth, I suspected the 30.8 would have the edge over the J2. It seams like there are always used J2's to be had, which I presume are mostly trade in's for the Pass amps. Charles, thanks for the heads up on Snoblo's experience. It is going to be awhile before I buy any more gear. I'm just starting to delve into the world of room treatments, and I am going to be taking my time on this project and getting the room right. This stuff isn't exactly cheap. I expect this will be a year long process, possibly more. I have been doing a lot of listening lately, after a whole year of doing well to get an hour a week in. Its funny, I'm like a kid in a toy store right next to a candy shop. There is just so much I want to do. I wish every day was 48 hours and every week had 14 days. Life is good! |
Hi Bill (Brownsfan),
I concur with the open mind approach, you never know unless you try. Joe (Snoblo) has compared the Pass Labs XA 30.8 and a First Watt amplifier to his Frankenstein MK II SET. He was really impressed with both of the SS amplifiers. Ultimately he preferred the Frankenstein but had nothing negative to say about the excellent SS amplifiers. Who knows? Your outcome could be different from his. These are all very fine amplifiers and as always it is a matter of taste. Bill if you decide to try either of the SS amplifiers let us know your listening impressions.
Take care,
Charles |
I've also been devoted to SET amps for years and they have many superb qualities, offering an organic, rich tone quality which can be addictive, especially with vocals and small scale recordings. I've heard the First Watt J2 with the Devore O/96 also. The J2 is an excellent amp and pairs very well with the O/96, but in my experience the resolution, imaging, detail retrieval and tonal accuracy of the XA30.8 is much higher, especially on complex demanding large scale symphonic and operatic recordings. |
This is a great reminder that we not adopt a narrow minded perspective with respect to putting together a system. I spent most of my audio years in pursuit of achieving my goals with low efficiency dipole speakers and the requisite high current amps, having made up my mind that a speaker in a box couldn't possibly sound like anything but a speaker in a box. A $2500 experiment on a pair of Coincident Triumph Extreme II's elicited a swift metanoia and now I have two systems using the high efficiency speaker low power SET approach. I most certainly don't expect to own another panel speaker, but I must admit that on occasion the 30.8 or perhaps a First Watt J-2 calls to me, just to satisfy my curiosity. I spent last night listening to Brahms violin and viola sonatas, and it was pure bliss. But on occasion, I have to revisit the Ring or Mahler, and I wonder if a really nice 30 W SS amp might not be interesting to have in the bull pen. |
Absolutely agree. The Pass Labs XA30.8 is an exceptional amp and deserving of all it's praise and positive reviews. The point 8 series amps from Pass are a great value for their level of performance. Regarding the Devore O/96, I'm impressed that they are so revealing of changes in electronics and cables. The O/96 is certainly a very easy speaker load and tube friendly, but they are outstanding with a variety of amp designs. |
It also tells us how good the Pass amp is. |
Bayreuth,
This is not surprising to me that a well implemented high impedance (10 ohms) easy load speaker would sound good with high quality tube or solid state, low or high power amplifiers. Atmasphere (Ralph) as often pointed out that every type of amplifier topology will perform with less bdistortion and effort driving an easier speaker load. This has always been intuitive and made sense to me. Congratulations with your sucessful pairing.
Charles |
While I can't speak to the pairing of Devore 0/96's (or any other Devore speaker), I regularly switch between a 9 Wpc SET 300B, and a Class D 500 Wpc amp with my vintage Tannoy HPD 315's.
Both pairings sound astonishingly good, which leaves me not at all surprised at how well the Devore 0/96's sound with different amplifiers of such disparate topologies and power ratings.
Regards, and enjoy,
Dan |
Devore 0/96 was demoed with the Sugden a21se at RMAF. Maybe some here heard it and have first hand accounts. The combination was praised in the reviews I have seen....
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