It has happened again. Major tweak and record provider has available a steam cleaner made especially for records. Anybody try steam for cleaning lp’s? What were your results? Since a unit can be had for about $20 at Target, 15% of what the tweak provider is charging, is it worth a try?.
Well, I have steam cleaned about 10 albums now. I decided to use my Garage Sale purchases first, then move up from there. I have now used the process on all my Garage Sale purchases, and a few of my lesser liked albums from the used record store.
So far, there have been no mishaps/damage to any album, and some albums have shown a noticeable improvement (a lot less hiss and pops).
I think the steam cleaning clearly does a better job than simply using a carbon brush and some cleaning solution. and, it seems to be equal or less hassle than cleaning records in the sink. I know I would end getting my labels wet in the sink.
I think the steam cleaning is a great way to clean newly acquired vinyl, for those that don't have a record cleaning machine.
I am getting a VTI RCM next week. I will be trying a process like we saw in the video posted above. I plan to use steam with the RCM for all newly acquired vinyl.
Thanks to all that have made this an informative thread. This is a really good process.
Oh, and by the way, you may want to check out Target (automotive section) for some Microfiber "pucks". They seem to be the perfect size and softness (90,000 fibers per inch) for this. They have a removeable handle. It like it was built for cleaning records.
"you may want to check out Target (automotive section) for some Microfiber "pucks". They seem to be the perfect size and softness (90,000 fibers per inch) for this. They have a removeable handle. It like it was built for cleaning records.
Darrell"
This sounds very promising Darrell. I looked at Target's website and couldn't find these thingees. Next trip into town I'll take a look at their store. Maybe a cost effective replacement for those expensive Disc Doctor pads???
FWIW, Walgreens.com is selling their "Perfection" Steam Cleaner online only, for $12.99 or thereabouts right now. With S & H it came to under $20. I visited their nearby stores (2) and one was out of them and the other didn't carry it. List price stated as $29.99 on the sign, but on sale for $19.99. Hope that helps. Jeff
Leadfeathers, you were right! I went by the local Walgreens (SC)on 8-8-08 and the Perfection Steamer was tagged $29.95 less $10.00 rebate. I took one to the register and asked them to scan it. When it scanned $12.99 I bought TWO of them!
Jj24688 I'm not covering my labels at all(as in the video by Stltrains on u-tube) Provided you don't steam directly on them and blot them off with a soft cloth right away when done I'm not sure there's really much of an issue. I have yet to damage one.
For me it all depends on how rare a LP is as well as its age. I note that early LPs center lables were softer in texture and subject to finger marks; they water stain easily. Later, hard printed lables can take a little handeling and a drop or two of moisture. Recently, I located a 1952 (TOPS L-931) LP "Lena Horne Sings". When I steam a 56 year old LP , I cover the label.
Hey Madfloyd and welcome to steam cleaning your lps. The brush you are talking about is the nylon bristled housed in the black holder i am thinking. Yes i move it from side to side as you mention and use just enough force to get into the grooves, it will absolutely not do any harm to your lps. I use three of those brushes. I like using them instead of others out available. They do a better job IMO. Guys and Gals that vinyl is tough and hard to harm. If you are feeling a little nervous start with a few lps that are not in good standing. I have not harmed a single lp yet and thats a lot of lps cleaned.
Thanks, picked up my steam cleaner today from Walgreens ($13 !!!) and am about to dishwash the attachment that you (Stltrains) used in the video... and basically mimic the procedure best I can.
Looking forward to trying this - I'll report in.... :-)
I have steam cleaned thousands of LPs and I don't feel that I yet understand "everything" regarding steam cleaning. Yes, I believe I possess a understanding of the process and I feel I should contribute that knowledge to the discussion. Steam cleaning a dozen recordings is a good thing but doesn't qualify for the gold. Learning to steam clean and living the life are two worlds. This is only to suggest caution in one's judgements that I as a decade + person in steam cleaning refrain from. But I will stand on these ideas : Do I believe that this method is revolutionary ? Yes, I do. And have I found any other lo-cost method that excells beyond the performace of steam ? Not yet but I'm always looking. Also, I am awaire of the growing numbers of folks that no longer feel a need to purchase RCM's.
What I have observed is that so many vary from the suggested guidelines now buried in this thread one can never be certian of repeatable results. The important reminders are keep to the least number of attachments, use purified & demineralized water as can be purchased and steam, scrub(w/record cleaning fluids) , steam and re-steam to remove any cleaning fluids left behind. Then dry. Should you have a RCM - USE IT, and don't forget to dry the LPs.As long as you do a final steam what cleaning fluid you choose is not as big a deal as if you use one or just steam.
After 4+ decades as a Audio-Head I suggest: Be careful how you spend your money. There are so many that want your $$$ and you can do better without many of them. Remember, there is no one looking over their shoulders ... All the best.
So I tried 3 LPs and unfortunately did not get rid of surface noise (I guess in this case they are not dirt, but true wear & tear).
I didn't hear much sonic benefit, but my VPI rig sounds awful and nothing sounds good, so that statement has zero value.
I did warp the LPs. Every revolution the needle jumps a 1/2 inch. Not sure what I did wrong; I'll have to rewatch the YouTube video and see if I held the steamer too close or too long.
Madfloyd wow whats up with your VPI rig? And you warped a lp also sounds like a Monday instead of Friday. Are you sure that it was not warped to begin with? Thats the first time i have heard of something bad like this happening using steam. I hope you started with some of your worst lps. Did all three warp? Maybe Crem will chime in with some insight.
Stltrains: Personally I have never damaged a lp , no warping , no problems. I suspect that the LPs were already damaged. The Perfection is actually a "cool" steamer , not hot enought to cause warping. Other steamers can really leave a painful red burn mark on the skin but not the Perfection.
Crem i totally agree with you on Perfection a good choice for our application. I also use it to steam all of my brushes and other items. I've had my fingers close to steam holding the brushes. They were not in the direct path of the steam but close, never a problem with heat or burns. I feel that using Perfection is like having a ace in the hole as you mentioned. I'm hoping Madfloyd gets his table and steaming method figured out. No problems here using steam just quite and super sounding lps. Going to drop the needle on a few now. Have a good one.
I guess I am on board with this method as well. I picked up a Perfection Steamer from Walgreen's and tried it out. I used to have an ultrasonic until it broke and thought that was fantastic. I just apply the solvent with a spritzer, wipe it through the grooves with a guaze, and blast it off with the steamer using the conical point, avoiding the label, rinse and dry. The steam cools down pretty fast and doesn't seem to harm the record at all, I even stabilize it with my hand and there is no significant problem with heat to my hand. I have washed several record this way and it seems to be a great method, even with records I previously washed with the ultrasonic, the steam seems to clean better. I guess this would qualify as using the steam as part of the "rinse" cycle.
Follow-up: I have the parts but no time yet to construct a "Gem-type" record cleaner. FYI, Michael Fremer did a review of a Merrill Gem (Stereophile 9/08) :) Fremer mentioned his GEM leaked water onto the record lables . I have an idea on how to resolve that problem.
This fall I plan to open a new thread on the results of specialized bacteria products I will be use to scour LP groves (hopefully) to a pristine condition. Its going to be a "Shoot-Out" of two bacteria products I selected that just might be the ultimate accessory for the fantic that demands perfection from LPs. I have posted before on bacteria . This time I will have a couple products on hand to compaire as a complement to Steam Cleaning.
One last mention, Mikey F. said he is to review a computer program to assist in turntable set-up, let's hope so for all of us.
I haven't tried steaming again yet, but I think my problem was I simply too close to the vinyl (maybe 2").
What I couldn't tell from the YouTube video was how Stltrains covered the entire record surface. Do you start with the inside for one revolution, then move slightly adjacent for another revolution etc? I know you only cleaned for about 7 seconds, but curious what your 'coverage' technique was...
Madfloyd as you move from outside to the center of the LP the steam will leave a path to show you where you have delivered the steam spray. I will follow this until i reach the dead wax about 7 to 10 seconds. No need to go any further and this way i dont get near the label. Have you had any luck with your VPI rig.
Readers: I can only remark again that in years of steam cleaning I personally have never destroyed any vinyl that I steam cleaned. I have stressed the vinyl every way possible without any negative consequences. The only exception was an experiment using a steam iron a emailer professed was far superior to using a hand held steam cleaning unit. Yes, he suckered me in and I deserved the consequence, a melted vinyl LP. The whole experience taught me , be careful from whom you accept advice , some ain't worth the price of s---. It is for this reason and many others I stress the K.I.S.S. method ( Keep It Simple Stupid ) .
Repeatable results require repeatable steps. I wish I could repeat a steam cleaning that destroyed a vinyl LP but as of today I have never been able to do so except with a steam iron. And friends never forget that in the world of business there are those that want to destroy any idea they don't control all for the sake of money. In the film "Iron Man" Jeff Bridges torments the hero " Just because you invented it doesn't mean you have a right to keep it".
My Perfection Steamer made an incredibly loud whistling noise as it heated up. To the point that I had to unplug it or else go deaf. Is this normal or am I doing something wrong?
Teskudia: Restart the Perfection making certian the top is secured. Should you hear that sound again unplug & return to the place of purchase for a replacement.
Tvad : Patients & trademarks are made to be broken by persons without honor that abound in a society where ideas are subject to theft by everyone including the Government. Keeping what you have is one matter , giving away and idea or two ? Just lean back and see the harlotts come out of the woodwork. For the past several years I had been researching a certian turntable with a view to writing a history of its development. Imagine my surprise when I understood the widespread intellectual theft behind the product. It just left me cold to going forward. To some degree every person I spoke to had been hurt by the heartless behavor of others intent on making money from the core ideas . Very enlighting ...
Tvad : Thanks for taking the bait. You have sniped from the corners on this issue. You are completely mistaken.
The issue here is freedom of expression and the ability to share information freely w/o concern of exploitation. Do what you will but I have lived long enought to see record collections damaged/some destroyed by silicone rags and acetone based products. All sold to innocent record collectors in the 1950's-60's.
I have repeatly said what MS does is his business and never changed my stance. Christ, I KNOW him and his circle of drones. But, when I KNOW of distortion even outright untruth, I feel an obligation to provide balanced and fair information.
Tvad, Please go spray your records with plastic bi-products that's your affair. The important matter for me is that 10-50 years hence the recordings steam cleaned by innocent readers are as playable then as today. You , can take any attachment you please spray your records with ANYTHING, have a blast.They are your possession burn them if you like. But don't come back here complaining of unintended consequences. That's what the scientific method is all about, reducing risk and untended consequences.
What I have I have explained is consequences or the perception of consequences, so the reader has some assurance some thought when into the answer. Spreading a suggestion with unintended consequences via the Net can be hurtful to Tens of thousands of innocent folks.
When I first decided to go public and hold private demostrations for a couple of European Audio designers, I was urged by a select few not to but to charge them and YOU for every word I print. My friend that gave me that advice is to making millions on the Net and I'm wasting my time with you. Thanks for the education.
Tvad : You would have nothing to discuss if I had not had "cocktail party" demostrations a few years past. I am pained to protect the innocent reader from misinformation. I detest this type of discource. So, let us cease.
Crem did i miss something here. You are saying that using the attachments that come with Perfection can and will harm lps at some time down the road? Cause i am not hearing anything now but the best sounding vinyl yet.
How about a little perspective folks, this isn't the vaccine for Polio. Nobody is going to make millions on an attachment (or anythings else to do with) to steam clean records. Self adulation is unattractive at best. If you don't want others to use, alter, change, expound, etc. your ideas, keep them to yourself. Once they enter the public domain all bets are off. This thread is sounding more like a Seinfeld episode every day.
Readers, For One Last Time: Consumer Handheld Steamers were never designed for use with vinyl recordings. It is for that reason I keep the active steam circuit limited to the heating tank and to the base nozzel(all metal/brass parts),thereby, reducing the potential for plastic/vinyl compounds to be sprayed/leached onto the LPs.
The interaction of those chemicals contained within the cones & hoses to the vinyl is unknown, even the exact identification of those compounds is unknown.
It is perfectly possible conical attachments can be precleaned to reduce the potental of chemical leeching , but as of yet, and after dozens of cleanings, mine continue to have a "slick" feel.
As far as I know , I had been the sole experimentor with steam cleaning until just a few years ago. I have steamed close to 1,000 vinyl records ,steaming for years before publishing anything in print. Before I published, not one article had been published in any audio rag or the internet regarding steam cleaning. As for those that make claims to have steamed cleaned several thousand LPs, I say hogwash. I know the amount of time it takes to steam clean and they just can't have actually steamed that many in such a short span of time. Todate, I personally have never damaged a LP, except in a ill-fated experiment using a steam iron . Really, a bad idea.
Readers: Its your option to experiment, to accept any advice that encourges you to spray your own collection with unknown chemicals. That's OK for you ,just be mindful that when you encourage other folks(AG Readers)to put chemicals into heating tanks as "rinsers"(exact compounds unknown)or to encourage the use of chemical ladden cones and hoses ,you maybe subjecting those readers to risk. Should that advice lead to disaster , like the Armor-All debacle, whom is to remedy the matter by making those persons whole from their losses ? Anyone ? Or, do the bad advisers hide under internet monkiers immune from the damage they encouraged ? I think we all know the answer, we suffer and we pay the price. And, they write about us as if we are objects not people.
Let me make this perfectly clear, I understood when I first published in "Listener" the use of steam cleaning , I was putting that idea in the public domaine. I said so in the article. What I did not expect was how quickly the idea took hold in the Hi-End Community(Worldwide) : What I did not expect was that my cocktail party demostrations,( where I was assured nothing would be used w/o permission) , would become the founding used to expolite others for financial gain .
I detest putting record collections at risk. It is only for that reason and others, I came forward at all.
Readers be assured , I would have been perfectly content to continue my experiments out of the public glare and create my various cleaning machines for my own personal pleasure. I have but I like steam cleaning better.
When I came forward , I did not appreciate the fact I was setting myself for so much gruff from non-idea folks both here and across the pond. Its not that an idea is in the public domane, its the corruption of the idea to the point of potental harm to other collectors that causes my grief.
To anyone who feel slighted , I say go away and create a Better Idea. Don't waste your time with me do something better, give it away and THEN subject yourself to worldwide review. We arn't taking about tying shoe laces , we are discussing how to preserve world class record collections and those of the average Mary or Joe.
As for the suggestion that "no body's going to get rich" , who's kidding who ? When was the last time you went to the CES or to Europe for the Audio Shows ? Or, read an Audio Rag ? Millions of Euro's are at stake from record cleaning machines , fluids and tens of dozens to hundreds of other products that all hover around black & silver discs. Only a fool fails to see the money connection. Streamers are saving themselves lots of money that they can choose to invest in LPs , turntables or whatever. Don't think that a lot of RCM and fluid manufactures don't feel threatened. Money drives this industry. A mavorick like me encourages change w/o profit to them , now that scares the bean counters.
In closing, I can only thank the hundreds persons who have sent private emails extolling the enjoyment they now get from their record collections. And for that I say Thank You. And to the others? Put your pants on , start creating and take the risk and don't come back until you have more than hot-air to share. Anything less makes you look shabby.
On my Perfection , tubing running from the heating unit to the nozzel is composed of metal, plastic encases the small tubing finishing off the blunt nozzel unit, partly recessed, that then acts as a base for attachment of the conical unit. T, we are done. Go play in another sand-box , come back with a better invention.
T : I do not use any attachment, making adjustments with my gloved hand and the angle I hold the Lp.
I am open to using the conical attachment should I be able to preclean the cone to a degree that the cone stops feeling "slick" to the touch.
For me , the greater concern are the vinyl hoses that reek of a chemical smell. My concern is that smell portends of chemicals that may be deposited on newly cleaned vinyl with unknown , long-trem consequences. In previous posts, we learned that "last" & "sound guard" record wear preventatives actually made LPs unplayable 10-15 years after the application . I have reason to be concerned that the vinyl chemicals contained in the hoses could have unintended consequences similar to "Last","Soundguard" and "Armor All".
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