Deep Cleaning Records With Steam?

Tvad : Patients & trademarks are made to be broken by persons without honor that abound in a society where ideas are subject to theft by everyone including the Government. Keeping what you have is one matter , giving away and idea or two ? Just lean back and see the harlotts come out of the woodwork. For the past several years I had been researching a certian turntable with a view to writing a history of its development. Imagine my surprise when I understood the widespread intellectual theft behind the product. It just left me cold to going forward. To some degree every person I spoke to had been hurt by the heartless behavor of others intent on making money from the core ideas . Very enlighting ...

Yes Madfloyd clean all of your vinyl new and used.

Is it worth steam-cleaning NEW LPs?

Teskudia: Restart the Perfection making certian the top is secured. Should you hear that sound again unplug & return to the place of purchase for a replacement.

I steam cleaned 60 albums this weekend with no mishaps, using the concepts Clem1 outlined.

I have an RCM machine, so I used a process similar to what Stltrains showed in his video (I just didn't do and RCM wand swap-outs).

Thanks to all the folks who contributed to this thread. I think the steam cleaning is a great way to "deep clean" a newly acquired album.

Darrell

My Perfection Steamer made an incredibly loud whistling noise as it heated up. To the point that I had to unplug it or else go deaf.
Is this normal or am I doing something wrong?

Readers: I can only remark again that in years of steam cleaning I personally have never destroyed any vinyl that I steam cleaned. I have stressed the vinyl every way possible without any negative consequences. The only exception was an experiment using a steam iron a emailer professed was far superior to using a hand held steam cleaning unit. Yes, he suckered me in and I deserved the consequence, a melted vinyl LP. The whole experience taught me , be careful from whom you accept advice , some ain't worth the price of s---. It is for this reason and many others I stress the K.I.S.S. method ( Keep It Simple Stupid ) .

Repeatable results require repeatable steps. I wish I could repeat a steam cleaning that destroyed a vinyl LP but as of today I have never been able to do so except with a steam iron. And friends never forget that in the world of business there are those that want to destroy any idea they don't control all for the sake of money. In the film "Iron Man" Jeff Bridges torments the hero " Just because you invented it doesn't mean you have a right to keep it".

Madfloyd as you move from outside to the center of the LP the steam will leave a path to show you where you have delivered the steam spray. I will follow this until i reach the dead wax about 7 to 10 seconds. No need to go any further and this way i dont get near the label. Have you had any luck with your VPI rig.

I haven't tried steaming again yet, but I think my problem was I simply too close to the vinyl (maybe 2").

What I couldn't tell from the YouTube video was how Stltrains covered the entire record surface. Do you start with the inside for one revolution, then move slightly adjacent for another revolution etc? I know you only cleaned for about 7 seconds, but curious what your 'coverage' technique was...

FYI: Walgreens (in MD); the "Perfection Steam Cleaner" is currently priced @ $20 w/ $10 rebate from in-store coupon booklet.

Friends, Buy them while they are available.

Guys, thanks for the steam clean ideas. My payback. It is now at Walgreens at $13.95 including tax(with a $17 rebate).

Follow-up: I have the parts but no time yet to construct a "Gem-type" record cleaner. FYI, Michael Fremer did a review of a Merrill Gem (Stereophile 9/08) :) Fremer mentioned his GEM leaked water onto the record lables . I have an idea on how to resolve that problem.

This fall I plan to open a new thread on the results of specialized bacteria products I will be use to scour LP groves (hopefully) to a pristine condition. Its going to be a "Shoot-Out" of two bacteria products I selected that just might be the ultimate accessory for the fantic that demands perfection from LPs. I have posted before on bacteria . This time I will have a couple products on hand to compaire as a complement to Steam Cleaning.

One last mention, Mikey F. said he is to review a computer program to assist in turntable set-up, let's hope so for all of us.

I guess I am on board with this method as well. I picked up a Perfection Steamer from Walgreen's and tried it out. I used to have an ultrasonic until it broke and thought that was fantastic.
I just apply the solvent with a spritzer, wipe it through the grooves with a guaze, and blast it off with the steamer using the conical point, avoiding the label, rinse and dry. The steam cools down pretty fast and doesn't seem to harm the record at all, I even stabilize it with my hand and there is no significant problem with heat to my hand. I have washed several record this way and it seems to be a great method, even with records I previously washed with the ultrasonic, the steam seems to clean better.
I guess this would qualify as using the steam as part of the "rinse" cycle.

Crem i totally agree with you on Perfection a good choice for our application. I also use it to steam all of my brushes and other items. I've had my fingers close to steam holding the brushes. They were not in the direct path of the steam but close, never a problem with heat or burns. I feel that using Perfection is like having a ace in the hole as you mentioned.
I'm hoping Madfloyd gets his table and steaming method figured out.
No problems here using steam just quite and super sounding lps. Going to drop the needle on a few now. Have a good one.

Stltrains: Personally I have never damaged a lp , no warping , no problems. I suspect that the LPs were already damaged. The Perfection is actually a "cool" steamer , not hot enought to cause warping. Other steamers can really leave a painful red burn mark on the skin but not the Perfection.

Madfloyd wow whats up with your VPI rig? And you warped a lp also sounds like a Monday instead of Friday. Are you sure that it was not warped to begin with? Thats the first time i have heard of something bad like this happening using steam. I hope you started with some of your worst lps. Did all three warp? Maybe Crem will chime in with some insight.

Madfloyd, do you work on your 'table yourself, or do you have help? It sounds like some parameters are off, as Stringreen suggested.

So I tried 3 LPs and unfortunately did not get rid of surface noise (I guess in this case they are not dirt, but true wear & tear).

I didn't hear much sonic benefit, but my VPI rig sounds awful and nothing sounds good, so that statement has zero value.

I did warp the LPs. Every revolution the needle jumps a 1/2 inch. Not sure what I did wrong; I'll have to rewatch the YouTube video and see if I held the steamer too close or too long.

I have steam cleaned thousands of LPs and I don't feel that I yet understand "everything" regarding steam cleaning. Yes, I believe I possess a understanding of the process and I feel I should contribute that knowledge to the discussion. Steam cleaning a dozen recordings is a good thing but doesn't qualify for the gold. Learning to steam clean and living the life are two worlds. This is only to suggest caution in one's judgements that I as a decade + person in steam cleaning refrain from. But I will stand on these ideas : Do I believe that this method is revolutionary ? Yes, I do. And have I found any other lo-cost method that excells beyond the performace of steam ? Not yet but I'm always looking. Also, I am awaire of the growing numbers of folks that no longer feel a need to purchase RCM's.

What I have observed is that so many vary from the suggested guidelines now buried in this thread one can never be certian of repeatable results. The important reminders are keep to the least number of attachments, use purified & demineralized water as can be purchased and steam, scrub(w/record cleaning fluids) , steam and re-steam to remove any cleaning fluids left behind. Then dry. Should you have a RCM - USE IT, and don't forget to dry the LPs.As long as you do a final steam what cleaning fluid you choose is not as big a deal as if you use one or just steam.

After 4+ decades as a Audio-Head I suggest: Be careful how you spend your money. There are so many that want your $$$ and you can do better without many of them. Remember, there is no one looking over their shoulders ... All the best.

Madfold : Welcome to the Club, please let us know of your results.

Thanks, picked up my steam cleaner today from Walgreens ($13 !!!) and am about to dishwash the attachment that you (Stltrains) used in the video... and basically mimic the procedure best I can.

Looking forward to trying this - I'll report in.... :-)

Hey Madfloyd and welcome to steam cleaning your lps. The brush you are talking about is the nylon bristled housed in the black holder i am thinking. Yes i move it from side to side as you mention and use just enough force to get into the grooves, it will absolutely not do any harm to your lps. I use three of those brushes. I like using them instead of others out available. They do a better job IMO. Guys and Gals that vinyl is tough and hard to harm. If you are feeling a little nervous start with a few lps that are not in good standing. I have not harmed a single lp yet and thats a lot of lps cleaned.

How hard does one press down with the RCM brush? I have a VPI 16.5 and the bristles feel rather stiff to me and I'm afraid of damagine the vinyl.

Stltrains mentions in his video that he also moves it back and forth... is this in the direction of outside to label or always going with the grooves?

For me it all depends on how rare a LP is as well as its age. I note that early LPs center lables were softer in texture and subject to finger marks; they water stain easily. Later, hard printed lables can take a little handeling and a drop or two of moisture. Recently, I located a 1952 (TOPS L-931) LP "Lena Horne Sings". When I steam a 56 year old LP , I cover the label.

Jj24688
I'm not covering my labels at all(as in the video by Stltrains on u-tube) Provided you don't steam directly on them and blot them off with a soft cloth right away when done I'm not sure there's really much of an issue. I have yet to damage one.

I use circular jar openers , S&L and Bank give-aways. Work perfectly every time.

How are you protecting your record labels from the steam?

That's too good to pass up. I'll check with my local Walgreens (MD) tomorrow.

Leadfeathers, you were right! I went by the local Walgreens (SC)on 8-8-08 and the Perfection Steamer was tagged $29.95 less $10.00 rebate. I took one to the register and asked them to scan it. When it scanned $12.99 I bought TWO of them!

A second shout-out : Does anybody own a Monster 1200 Steam Cleaner? If so what has been your personal experience with the 1200 ? Thanks

FWIW, Walgreens.com is selling their "Perfection" Steam Cleaner online only, for $12.99 or thereabouts right now. With S & H it came to under $20.
I visited their nearby stores (2) and one was out of them and the other didn't carry it. List price stated as $29.99 on the sign, but on sale for $19.99.
Hope that helps.
Jeff

"you may want to check out Target (automotive section) for some Microfiber "pucks". They seem to be the perfect size and softness (90,000 fibers per inch) for this. They have a removeable handle. It like it was built for cleaning records.

Darrell"

This sounds very promising Darrell. I looked at Target's website and couldn't find these thingees. Next trip into town I'll take a look at their store. Maybe a cost effective replacement for those expensive Disc Doctor pads???

Well, I have steam cleaned about 10 albums now. I decided to use my Garage Sale purchases first, then move up from there. I have now used the process on all my Garage Sale purchases, and a few of my lesser liked albums from the used record store.

So far, there have been no mishaps/damage to any album, and some albums have shown a noticeable improvement (a lot less hiss and pops).

I think the steam cleaning clearly does a better job than simply using a carbon brush and some cleaning solution. and, it seems to be equal or less hassle than cleaning records in the sink. I know I would end getting my labels wet in the sink.

I think the steam cleaning is a great way to clean newly acquired vinyl, for those that don't have a record cleaning machine.

I am getting a VTI RCM next week. I will be trying a process like we saw in the video posted above. I plan to use steam with the RCM for all newly acquired vinyl.

Thanks to all that have made this an informative thread. This is a really good process.

Oh, and by the way, you may want to check out Target (automotive section) for some Microfiber "pucks". They seem to be the perfect size and softness (90,000 fibers per inch) for this. They have a removeable handle. It like it was built for cleaning records.

Darrell

Question : Do any of you own a Monster 1200 , the steam cleaner blitz'ed on TV for $76 inc S/H ? If any do what is your personal experience with the 1200? Thanks

Crem,

Thanks for the info. Since I won't be have to steam clean the albums often, I figure I'll give it a try.

I picked up a steamer at Walgreens (it rang up as $19.99 although it was marked $29.99). I will pick up some water at Pep Boys tomorrow.

Target has some microfiber "pucks" that were marked as 90,000 fibers per square inch. They look they will be perfect for lightly scrubbing the debris out of the grooves while steaming.

Darrell

In my opinion, only once but that view has been challenged by a record fluid designer who believes the process should be repeated semi-annually. Changing the inner sleeve at the time of steam cleaning ,as well as, encasing the LP cover in a poly clear cover reduces potential contamination . Of course, the air quality/purity in the home does affect the outcome as well. In my case I 've made the decision to have my home intensely cleaned : "Environmental Purification"; carpet deep extraction cleaning & sanitzing, dry cleaned drapes, all duet work extracted of dust and a house electronic filter. Cost about $ 500 - $ 1,500. I'm sure many feel that "over-kill" but that's a personal choice.

This looks a great way to clean vinyl the first time. Assuming we all take care of our vinyl, how often does the steam cleaning need to be done?

Thanks Davidsss,
I'll look around.

Tvad: Shooting down other people's ideas is not my view of a good time. I detest that. My only hope was that (perhaps) I was saving someone from a "Armor-All" moment including yours truly. With years more steaming time , I felt an obligation to give the best advice possible. Experimentation -- Go For It ! Steaming to the best of my knowledge has only improved a person's listening experimence. AND, thats a good thing.

Halcro, I too am in Australia and picked up a hand held steam cleaner very easily. I went to Godfreys but you could try another vacuum cleaner store or even a department store or KMart or the like. Mine cost about $30 and works a treat. Just look around.

On the above discussion I do use the elbow attachment for convenience and if it starts getting a bit spitty I just run it for about 10 seconds spraying into the air and then steam the record. Works for me with no ill effects.

DS

What is it ? Am I the only poster or is it an exaustion of ideas ?? Lots more to discuss .... If only with ....

To All: I dishwashed the 6" attachment that continues to feel slick to the touch. I will soak in detergent & water , rinse an dry to see if I can reduce that slick(press release compounds)ness.

Sonofjim, The Backstory : When I began steam cleaning, I eventually settled on the use of a Hot Shot 350A . The 350A had a revolving ball steaming tip about a 1" long. Devoid of attachments, it was very nifty and agile. Later, problems related to supermarket distilled water caused the Hot Shot 350A to become "spitty" and it was retired from LP cleaning. Note: I also had a few emails noting sputtering problems with the 350A, as well as, others that love the 350A that is no longer manufactured.

Later, came the Perfection Steam Cleaner. As a service to the steaming community (and in response to a email request), I sourced another steamer the Steamfast SF-227. I did so for those that wanted the exact steamer Mapleshade (MS) included in "Deep Cleaning" package ($150) that could be purchased from WalMart ,solo, over the net for about $34 bucks - Less MS's wipes and micro-cloths. MS also has a "rinser" they want you to place directly into the heating tank. According to the manufactures warnings and UL Labs putting anything other than water into a heating tank could be dangerious leading to potental damage/explosion. MS disagrees and mentions that on the MS Web Site. A "Better safe than Sorry" issue only the consumer can resolve.

Experimentation with the SF-227 found that steamer to be powerful; a special steam power I reserve for dirty second-hand finds. I feel the Perfection is "perfect" for almost all record cleaning needs, less the hose and all other attachments.

We must remember, we are using a product created for home-use that we are "adaptng" to our needs.

As for the 6" conical attachment, I suggest that with good pre-cleaning there is less reason for concern over mold release compounds than with the hoses. The 6" conical can be washed in the dishwasher (top tier) or by hand w/detergents , water rinses & a good wiping inside an out.

The hoses are a different matter. I find they "smell" even when repeatly used & cleaned for household chores. My concern revolves around the plastic compounds that give off the odor; we generally understand what they are ,but we do not know the long-term consequences(if any)to steam cleaning vinyl LPs. For that reason , I have reservations about "spraying" a record collection with steam comming out of a hose. "Better Safe than Sorry" kind of deal. No actual scientific fact of a problem just a bunch of ? that have yet to be resolved. Its the "who knows" part of the equation that springs red flags. I can't tell if its right or wrong , I just give you my reasoning and ultimately you the reader decides.

As for my method its detailed a couple of times over on the thread: I use gloved hands to manipulate the Lp in one hand and the steamer in the other. I also use a RCM and for years have recommended cleaning either with or without RCM's.

Soon, I will start experimenting with a "GEM-Type" LP stand. At least one other steamer has already built that stand-Good for you! I also intend to experiment with the 6" attachment(pre-cleaned) as you threaders appear convinced it works.

For label protectors , I recommend those circular jar openers that S&L's and Banks give-away at Community Fair Booths , as a protective label cover . They work for me.

S: Please relax ... Its all about the journey.

Thanks for your input. Posters like you make all the difference.

I'm happy with my results using the perfection steamer on a 16.5 so far. It will probably be a permanent addition to my cleaning regimen. Two questions though, 1.How would I use the steamer without any attachments on a 16.5 without tipping it too far to be safe? 2.Has anyone ever seen water damage to a label?(so far I have not). Some have mentioned covering labels. What works best for this? I am also anxious to possibly see a video by Crem in the future.

I do this to assist the average audio-head. Anyone has the right to change/do anything they choose but accept the outcome(s), me included. Have any of you considered the amount of monies I gave away with this audio idea ... 6 figures at least . I publish for reasons other than money and have dozens of unpublished ideas better than whats in the marketplace. More later. I am a anlog/tube person.