Considering the New Tekton Design Encores? AND Owners Group - Experiences/Questions

...or selling his birthright for a cable....

It takes hard work to keep him from overshooting his goal, and ending up going backwards.....

One case comes to mind of Jcarcopo. He ditched a cheap two way speaker , and his first SET amp,  and bought a pair of Anylsis Omega planar/ribbon loud speakers.
It took him 11 years to get back to the enjoyment he HAD with the cheaper setup, and two more years to get where he is now.

You are such an inflammatory dickhead @fetguy! If I didn't know and love you, I would hate you! 

I wish all it was allways an upgrade when we dump gear and get newer "better" gear. We all have the experience of it being a downward, or merely lateral, move in musical enjoyment.

Thanks guys.  It's all about music.

Olesno, 
That was a thoughtful and wise rebuttal.
Charles

@olesno Very well said! 

...but always in the pursuit of better things out there.  That's what makes this hobby so exciting.  Let's not forget that whatever we have it's only a vehicle to deliver music to us in the most pleasant and realistic way.

Everyone loves what they own and then dumps it.  The audiophile way

I'm so excited to get John on this thread!  I'm totally stoked you're getting the TDAI -3400! I can't wait to hear your listening impressions! 

Thanks for chiming in, John. I would bet that the Encores will sound incredible with the Lyngdorf, which seems to get nearly universal acclaim from everyone who has heard it, including some audiophiles whose ears I trust. I look forward to your impressions, of course. I'll be driving mine with a Line Magnetic 508--48 watts of SET bliss--but one of these days I will try to bring in the little brother of your new Lyngdorf to see what all of the fuss is about :)

Yes, that's correct.  I (John J.) ordered the Encores about a month ago and hope to get them sometime next week.  I followed the same path as Walter, i.e.,  DI to SE to Encore.  Jonathan was hugely influential in my decision to go for the Encores.  In my case I also decided to replace my amp ( Pass XA25 ) as I think the speakers might need more power to really thrive.  Sound unheard I ordered the Lyngdorf TDAI-3400 which should arrive shortly.

Thanks, jcarcopo. I'll look forward to his posts, especially since he also had the SE's. I will keep an eye on the FB page as well. Much obliged!

@waltersalas I only know of one other person, (John Jonczyk) who pulled the trigger on the Encores via fb after having owned the Double Impacts SE. He probably will get them before you and will definitely post about them hopefully here or on the fb worldwide group for Tekton.  

Thanks, gentlemen. I’ve been excited about these since Eric first developed them. Kudos to jcarcopo for taking the plunge right away and confirming that these are as special as they appear to be.

Has anyone else received their Encores yet? Eric told me he thinks he can get them to be by the first week in September. Not bad!

Hi Walter,
Congratulations!
I predict that the Tekton Encores and your Line Magnetic 508ia will be a beautiful pairing in your system. 
Charles 

@waltersalas Congratulations on getting the Encores! I'm sure you will love them as much as I love mine.  Let us know your impressions when you get them setup.

Jonathan

I placed my order for the Encores yesterday morning. A big thanks to jcarcopo for generating this plan and for his trailblazing commentary on this speaker. Based on my experiences with the Double Impacts and Double Impact SEs, I have no doubt that the Encores are very special. I can't wait to hear them in my system!

@shadorne Yes the Dangerous Convert 2 was extremely competant and yes I did connect both dacs to the HPA4 via balanced and used HT BYPASS on the input and ensured the internal dac2 jumpers were set to zero db.  I spent 2 days swapping from source direct to the HPA4.  I kept hearing a dropoff of sparkle and transients on guitars. It was a tad veiled and homogenous sounding, like a coating on everything I played.  This phenomenon happened in equally to both dacs.

@david_ten i will check out that dac you mentioned. 

@jcarcopo  Thank you! Looking forward to your take on the DAC3, if you get it. 

If you are looking for other non-tube DACs with a preamp function (within budget), also consider the Metrum Adagio.

The new Auralic series are certainly worth exploring also.

@gregb63 Can you share more about your Encores? Thanks.

Tom Vu from TriangleART and I were talking a few days ago and I told him how much I love my [Encore] speakers.

@jcarcopo

Agree with your comments. Dangerous Convert 2 is a great DAC too.

Out of curiosity - are you using XLR out of the Benchmark DAC and in to the HPA4?

Also did you set the Benchmark close to full volume (no resistor pad attenuation and about 2 to 3PM or HT mode) when passing the signal to the HPA4.

You would need to do this to maintain the full SNR performance of the products (maximize headroom).

I am considering the same combination but a loss of dynamics is definitely not a good thing.

@david_ten Benchmark HPA4 and AHB2 are going back. The HPA4 was very good, but I've been running source direct out of a Benchmark DAC for 20 years and for me I feel like putting a preamp in between the dac and amp just robs me of resolution that I end up missing.  The HPA4 has immaculate specifications that should make it virtually transparent which is what is what I wanted, but instead the music sounds homogenous with slightly less transient response and this while using both the Benchmark DAC2 HGC or the Dangerous convert 2 pro audio dac I auditioned.

Once they were both gain adjusted to the same volume, both DACs sounded identical to my ears and I was able to switch between them effortlessly using roon feeding them both simultaneously and switching instaneously with the HPA4.  I'm starting to get the impression that all competent DACs sound pretty much alike.  I refuse to spend a lot more money for some uber DAC that only adds a tone control of flavoring and ridiculous price tag. 

I've heard esoteric and dcs in the past and I wasn't impressed at all. Sounded thin and airy to me. I couldn't afford it anyway so the point is moot. 

I'm kind of stuck at the moment and just listening through the DAC2.  I may get the DAC3, but I doubt it would be audibly better at all, or I may consider something fron Auralic, maybe a Vega Dac/Streamer.  Honestly though, I've heard the Vega in my system already and it sounded the same as the Benchmark to my ears. I returned it to the ebay seller because it had a broken toslink jack.  My dac2 hgc is getting old so I'd like to replace it soon, but I doubt I'll gain much improvement even if I do.

I'm not much for using tubes on top of tubes on top of tubes....tube dac, tube preamp, tube amp.  Too much of good thing (tubes) again seems to just rob me of resolution and dynamics. I love what set amps do, but I don't ascribe to using tubes everywhere else in a system because you're stacking a lot of 2nd/3rd order distortion to the point of losing purity you'd gain from using a simple direct path from source to amplifier.  I'm not saying people who do this are wrong, it's just not my cup of tea, sonically speaking. 

All that being said, (and just to contradict myself) I'm still mildly curious of the Lampizator tube DAC, but its a bit out of my league price wise and I have no easy way to audition it.

@jcarcopo Any updates? DAC3? etc.

I've only heard the upgrades DIs and the Encores.  The Encores have everything I've ever wanted in a speaker.  The 15 tweeter MTM array is incredibly detailed, coherant, and effortless with a electrostatic-like presentation with the dynamics of horns.
 The bass from dual 11" long-throw woofers produces prodigious, accurate, and gutteral bass that surpasses the DIs entirely.

I love my DI SE but I still want to know how they sound vs the new Encores. Anyone heard both.

Mr_m,
If a reviewer Has listened to the Paradigm and in his opinion found them inferior, that simply an honest personal opinion. It doesn’t mean you or anyone else has to necessarily agree with that.

There are so many brands of audio components available to the consumer these days. It is impossible to find one brand that everyone will love or everyone will strongly dislike. It’s pure common sense and the  reality, nothing will please everyone universally.

The simplest and most truthful advice to anyone , if you have an opportunity to hear a speaker do so and judge based on your own preference and criteria.

This is why for example you have the constant Wilson compared to the Magico line of speakers debates. Different speakers for different ears.
Charles

Fair enough. It's all personal choice. :-)

@teajay Couldn't agree with you more! 

I'm not a reviewer, just an ordinary person, but you couldn't pay me to own Paradigm speakers because they aren't my cup of tea. 

And of course, a reviewer is going to tell ;you that Paradigm is inferior.....

Hey beme54,

Of course, a high end store is going to tell you that Tekton Speakers are inferior, that's how threatened they are by Tekton's new designs, performance and price compared to what speaker brands they stock and sell.  No offense to the Paradigm speakers, they build very good speakers at reasonable prices.  However, yes I have heard their speakers, the Double Impact monitors and Double Impacts actually compete with the Paradigm models that cost thousands of dollars more and I still like the Tekon Speakers better for my taste.

You owe to yourself to hear one of the Tekon Design models before you purchase any new speaker.

Copo- After reading the glowing review you gave on this speaker I thought it appropriate to look into the brand. The owner of a high-end stereo store in the Bay area tells me to "Stay away" from Tekton. Naturally I followed up his terse email with an inquiry as to "why".

He said simply "The $1,000 Paradigm is better".

I will be at the RM show at then I hope to hear both.

@charles1dad I think anyone who hasn't run source direct for 20 years would definitely love the HPA4 as a very cutting edge fairlt neutral preamp.  It's definitely not clinical and in my system it seemed a touch warmer sounding, but I preferred the more resolute and dynamic presentation running source direct. 

@david_ten When I originally said the HPA4 was a keeper I hadn't swapped it out and reverted back to source direct for comparison, but over time something didn't seem quite right with transient response and upper mid frequency sparkle and a loss of dimensionality.  I spent all day yesterday putting the HPA4 in and taking it out, playing the same group of songs each time.  The repeatability of the changes in music character were apparent to me each time and this truth be told, was very depressing because I really wanted to keep the HPA4. 

I did let Rory at Benchmark know I would be getting a new DAC3 HGC because I love the DAC2 HGC source direct with my amps and Encores.  It sounds as good as the Dangerous Audio Convert 2 pro mastering DAC.  I was going to try a Crane Solaris DAC too, but without the HPA4 or an alternate preamp I decided to cancel the order.  I'm very certain that for me in my system running source direct is what I'm looking preference-wise for sound reproduction fidelity.

I might consider trying some more gear in the near future and I'll reach out to you.  For now I'm just going to do some more research about what's out there to see if I can find a potential upgrade that I can afford. I'll pm you. 

@jcarcopo I’ve been following your findings with interest, not because of our ’bet’, but as a fellow enthusiast and since I am personally interested in the Encores / Ulfberths as a possible next step.

First, I’m not surprised with your impressions of the Benchmark amp in your system, as relayed via the Encores. For me, this isn’t a pairing I’d recommend for the SEs and by default, your Encores.

Second, a friendly caution that some of what you may be reporting on and experiencing is break-in related. For example, the HPA4 was a keeper but is now going back (as reported within a 48 hour period). I’m sure you are making the right decision for you, but I’m also confident in saying that you may also be experiencing some anomalies tied to break in of the speakers.

If you haven’t already done so, reaching out to owners of the SEs and Ulfberths privately to get their suggestions on ideal pairings may be helpful and a fun exercise.

For example, even though I haven’t heard the latest LTA pairing I have a strong gut feeling that @lancelock ’s pre and amp combo is a Fantastic one that may give you what you are looking for, despite the difference in watts (vs the NORDs). If I remember correctly, LTA offers return privileges.

As you consider your options, I strongly suggest a High Current amplifier and a well reviewed power supply /conditioner.

For example, the SR PowerCell 12 SE with the Galileo PC elevated my Pass XP-20 - XA-30.8 combo to a level where I likely would not have looked for another amp combo (had the PowerCell been in system first).

Shoot me a PM if you want to discuss more in person over the phone.

Jcarcopo,
I really appreciate your well written and clearly explained listening sessions.  You acquire audio components and give them a fair audition.  That is all one can ask for. I can imagine how terrific your current system sounds. 
Charles 

Well, after an all day affair of putting the HPA4 in and running source direct repeatedly. The HPA4 is going back to Benchmark.

I'm very sad to say the HPA4 Preamp does rob me of some upper frequency sparkle and transient response. I've run through putting the hpa4 in and taking it out several times and running each DAC direct to either my Nord Monoblocks or my Art Audio Diavolo SET Tube 300b Amplifier to my Tekton Design Encores speakers and regardless of the DAC or amps I'm using I can hear clearly a noticeable drop in resolution, upper midrange clarity, and transient response. Plucks of guitars seem a little lifeless now. The overall sound is more homogeneous sounding and more 2 dimensional sounding. It's a warmer less neutral sound, but almost like a film coating painted on everything I hear. This is really disappointing because this preamp was supposed to take my system to the next level, but unfortunately it's a step backwards for me. I'm returning it to Benchmark, but I really feel bad about it all the same.

@lancelock Thanks for the comment. I think Benchmark should consider that since they are going after the audiophile market that maybe they might consider releasing an alternative version of an amp that’s less about specs and slightly more emotionally involving. I know this goes against their ethos of impeccable specs, but they would likley sell to a broader base if they offered something a tad more emotional sounding and not just simply measuring exceedingly well. It would be hard for me to feel compelled to buy the AHB2 based on specs alone. I will repeat their new preamp is exactly what I want from a preamp. Nearly no alteration or editorialization of the preceding source signal is what I’ve always wanted in a preamp.

@jcarcopo,  I owned the AHB2 for a while and it is everything you said, clean, dead quiet and transparent. Then one day a friend brought over his 30 year old Mirror Image Audio amp. A 200 watt amp with the first 30 in class A. This old amp made the AHB2 sound thin and lacking in bass. I sold the AHB2 and eventually found an old MI amp used. This old amp is very impressive for when I’m not in the mood for tubes.

@charles1dad So I've been auditioning the Benchmark AHB2 amplifier, as well as their new HPA4 Preamp, and I've even been trying a Dangerous Convert 2 PRO Audio DAC just for comparison to Benchnark DAC2 HGC on the Encores.

The AHB2 is actually very smooth, dead quiet, detailed, transparent and dynamic to listen to, especially at lower to medium volume levels, but unfortunately at higher levels the 200w/4ohm power limitation of the amp becomes its achilles heel. I wouldn't suggest that the amp is cool or clinical, but maybe a slight tad less emotionally involving nonetheless. The Nords are better in this respect at 700wpc into 4ohms with a very similar sound quality thats slightly more involving and even at higher volume levels. Ultimately, I'm sending the AHB2 back because I do not feel spending $6k on a pair of them so I can run them in bridge mode is warranted when I love the Nord monoblocks a bit more and which only cost me half the money and deliver very good sound quality and plenty of power.

The new Benchmark HPA4 Preamp is a real keeper. It's very transparent, detailed, has great dynamics at lower volume levels and improved on the sound of the Benchmark DAC2 HGC being used as a stand alone dac/preamp. It's 64x relayed volume control is a joy to use and it does seem to take my system up a notch dynamically when driving the nords or my Diavolo SET.

The Dangerous Convert 2 Pro Dac sounds were very close to the Benchmark once the levels were adjusted in the HPA4 preamp. Using Roon I could play music simultaneously to both dacs via USB as a grouped zone and go back and forth. I may keep the piece just because I think its a really nice DAC with maybe a touch more naturalness and not at all analytical. A very involving sounding piece and I totally dig the level meters on it. I know thats a bit silly 😋

I've got a Crane Solaris DAC coming to compare to the Dangerous convert 2 and the benchmark dac2 hgc next week.

Mogami 2477 Blue Neglex OFC 12 guage coaxial cable. I had two 20ft pieces in use with my KLH Nines for 23 years! Lost it when I moved to Florida.

Mogami for speaker wire? I use them for balanced interconnects only. If you need somethimg that will give you more bass and sound utterly neutral then get Analysis Plus. At least their 10awg Black mesh. I can get some for you 45% off retail. Just let me know length and terminations.

What about Mogami?

Before that it was Monster. :)

Marty,
what wires were you using before the Nordhost? I had some of their Speaker wires 7-8 years ago and found them incredibly lean.

@martyfriedman, wanna talk?  Send a pm with your number and I'll call you. 

@martyfriedman  Get the Encores.  Way more bass.  Also get analysis plus 9/10awg cable. Nordost is thin sounding. Ttyl in a call atm. 

Guys, I received my DIs just a week ago and it seems I have been listening to my entire collection since then (yes it is a large collection). I will post all the details about my setup and experiences with the DIs at another time, but right now I'd like to get more info about comparisons between DI and Encore.

I will soon be speaking to Eric about possibly upgrading to the Encores. The only thing I found a bit wanting with the DIs might be the bass response in my room (24x24x9). I improved this quite a bit by installing better wire (Nordost Flatline, yes quite old) which are decent but still not up to snuff for speakers of this caliber. So next I will upgrade the wire to something better and see what happens.  Better interconnects and power cord are in the works as well.

Meantime, if you have heard both speakers please please chime in! Thanks!
Marty