So the Lyngdorf TDAI-3400 sounds very good with my Encores. It's a very smooth, natural, and neutral sounding presentation. It's a little less forward than my Nords Class D NCORE amps + Benchmark DAC2 HGC. The Room Perfect definitely perfected the bass response, cleaned up the slight midrange congestion noticeably, and improved the depth of field slightly. It does sound lovely. It's a very musical combination. They really did a great job with creating a very short and simple signal path directly from digital bits to amplified analog sound. It's very resolute and detailed, but not analytical are fatiguing sounding at all. I couldn't be happier with the piece.
|
@mr_m Oh, yes I completely agree with that, I think I misunderstood you. I thought you were saying that the effect was caused by vinyl playback, but yes I agree the signal was transferred from tape to vinyl absolutely. I must say it's pretty impressive of vinyl imho. |
I would tend to think that the tape print thru would be transferred to the vinyl if the process were of high enough resolution. As far as the tape is concerned, I was told the same thing that your friend told you. It seems that the recorder heads have sufficient magnetic capability to record a faint signal to the layer of tape below the first layer. I'm no expert, just an observation. |
@mr_m I asked my buddy who mastered the digital recording off the original vinyl with a very refined vinyl analog playback/ADC recording setup and he said it was mastertape print-through since I was hearing the next line in the song before it actually played. Sort of like a faint 2 second preview of the next line of the song, which makes sense at least to me since the following line of the song imprinted on the layer of spooled tape beneath it. I don’t understand how that is a vinyl playback related issue. I wasn’t hearing an echo. I actually originally thought it was Sinatra wearing headphones hearing a previous take of the song played while singing along with it slightly delayed and the mic picked up his headphone output faintly. My buddy said normally this effect is so far down in db that it’s inaudible or corrected in the recording. The relevance to me was only to point out to everyone that I had played that track hundreds of times on both horn speakers and the DIs and never noticed it before. For the first time it was very noticeable to me on the Encores. The point I was making al beit poorly because I didn’t go into much detail was how resolute and transparent the Encores were at the retrieval of this low level hidden information on this familiar recording. My buddy has jbl k2 speakers and he couldn’t hear it. |
jcarcopo,
I believe the "print thru" you heard on your vinyl is the result of a properly set-up turntable. Doesn't really have much to do with the resolution of the loudspeaker. IMO. I hear this artifact on my system many times. |
Well, I'm excited about the Encores. There is stiff competition out there, but if these destroy the DIs (among other non-Tekton brands, obviously), then it's certainly a good value for the dollar. We all know people are who are spending stupid cash on speakers, and though I'm not saying that the end doesn't justify the means, as there are also tons of wonderful speakers on the market; nevertheless, one has to wonder why half of them (or more) or just a reiteration, upon a reiteration, upon a reiteration of the same theme with no discernible benefits. I have a very good friend, whom I adore as an audiophile mind, who just has to buy the latest and greatest. There's nothing wrong with that, but what I find odd is that he'll snub his nose at previous "Speakers of the Year," or whatnot, as if the technology really has changed, since, let's say, 2002, or even 1982, when very well made speakers from the past can still spark the mind in 2018.
In the case of the Encores, it seems like they'll wipe the floor with the DIs. Are they good enough? We'll see, as room size, front end gears, amplification, etc. can make a difference in how a speaker speaks to you. |
@charles1dad Yes, they are a very worthy upgrade. Where else can you get a manufacturer that gives you more than 50% of the speaker’s price tag just in drivers and the crossover parts alone? It’s unheard of! You’re lucky to get $2000 in total parts for a typical $10k high-end speaker. Hell, just the tweeters alone in the Encore are worth around $2400, but what they do collectively and sonically is priceless. This is a very high value proposition for anyone looking for a real steal of a deal along with exquisite performance that rivals speakers costing many multiples of the Encores price. Join the club, you won’t be disappointed. |
The delta between the Encores and SEs is going to be much more interesting to tease out. |
|
Hi Jcarcopo,
I hope that I'm not going to far out on a limb but I get the impression you're quite happy with the Encores😀😀.
Charles |
The array goes a full octave lower. The array is very transparent, very resolute, exceedingly dynamic, and effortless in it's presentation from 300hz-20khz. There's nothing in the way between you and the music, no film, no grunge, no struggling. It's like electrostatic-like crossed with the best of horns. The bass is prodigious and gutteral yet defined and detailed, the DIs are just not in the same league. I could here tape-print-through on a vinyl rip of Frank Sinatra B side of Only the Lonely "Blues in the Night". I can hear the next line of the song imprinted on the previous line of the song. It's not analytical in the slightest, yet as detailed as humanly possible. They are the best live sounding speakers I've ever heard.
|
So, for those who own the Encores and have heard the DIs, how would you characterize the difference between the two speakers? |
Yes I agree that it is a little crazy talk by Lyngdorf. It is true that RP lets you do this without the kind of major sonic set backs you get without RP. However, pulling the speakers out from the wall does nothing but help SQ. I did the tests in my prior dedicated room with my Harbeth 40.1s. With RP the sound improved when the speakers were well off the front wall and into the room. |
@grey9hound Yes, I’ve heard that too with Lyngdorf, duly noted. I’ve heard you can put the speakers against the front wall with the Lyngdorf, but that’s crazytalk. The Encores are rear ported and I’ve got an obstruction in the way regardless. Just seems counterintuitive because depth of field comes from bringing your speakers out from the front wall up to 1/3rd the distance to the rear wall. |
@david_ten Yeah, I guess it just feels nearfield because I cant pull them out further or put the listening position further away. They completely dissappear though and the depth and soundstage are as good as I could hope for. |
@jcarcopo Thanks! That helps.
As @evolvist mentions, not quite as nearfield as I had expected.
I find moving away from the SEs really opens up the sweet spot. My closest seating position is similar to yours 8.5 feet apart and ~ 8.5 feet from the center point in the speaker plane. However, my speakers are more pulled out into the room and sit further from the side walls.
My preferred position is about 12.5 to 13 feet from the center point between the speakers, with the speakers nearly in line with my ears (but crossing behind them). My seating position is also higher than normal (but the speaker base is about 2 inches off the floor).
|
You won’t need extra room behind them with the Lyngdorf.
All will be right in the world when it is setup |
@evolvist I just wish I had an extra 10 feet to give these speakers more room behind them and more room behind my listening position to get better depth and addedambiance.
MY LYNGDORF TDAI-3400 SHIPPED ALREADY!
Tentatively it’s arriving on the 7th if there’s no customs hold ups. That was so much faster than I expected! I highly recommend Neal at Sound Science if you are interested in getting a Lyngdorf. He was very polite, professional, and extremely fast with turning this purchase around very quickly.
|
@Jcarcopo, yeah, I wouldn't call that "nearfield," but I get the picture. :-)
I could do roughly the same with my room, as I've done that with the DIs...roughly.
Note that my DIs were strictly on loan, as I didn't care for them much, but I figured to be fair to Tekton and myself, I would hold out for the Encores with the promise that they would be a considerable upgrade from the DIs. I mean, Tekton DID NOT have to loan me DIs (I paid for them) for almost a year until the Encores were ready, but they did, which is a class act. I'm really excited about the Encores to see how they will beat the DIs. :-) |
@david_ten Because of how my room is layed out, I'm forced to fire off my long wall which is 16' across. The speakers are 8.5' apart, approx 2.5' from the front wall, 3.5' from the side walls and my listening position is 8.5' away with about a 2' space behind me that allows me to recline in my listening chair. The room has a 9' trey ceiling that drops to 8' around the perimeter. The acoustics are very good in this room, so only minimal dsp around 40hz and 18khz needs to be applied in software on my roon media server to achieve a very flat response. |
@jcarcopo What's nearfield for you? Can you share your Encore positioning, distances, etc.? Thanks. |
@evolvist I'm pretty nearfield to my Encores and I love um. If you liked the DIs, you're going to be ecstatic with the Encores. Read my prior posts for my listening impressions. |
Hell, mine is only 13x12x8, but I have lots of acoustic treatment and the ability to move it around. *sigh* |
@evolvist My room is 20 X 20 with a cathedral ceiling, but opens up in the back. |
@grannyring I hope your assertions pan out. I could really use the money selling off my Nords, Benchmark DAC2 HGC, and even the Diavolo (even though I really don't want to give it up). At least the Luxman Amplifier switcher makes switching amplifiers a turn of 20amp rated heavy duty knob, so no cable swaps are needed.
@evolvist My room is smaller, only 16x14.5x9 |
Hey y'all, what size room are you putting the Encores in?
|
Agreed @jcarcopo. I wanted the same exact thing being a strong tube guy for decades. I still work on tube amps and love them! Two things just made the combo not work for me.
- something about the analog outs on my 2170 combined with the ICs just in the end sounded... well, less good. I tried with several and felt less connected to the music and performance. These tube amps were great as an FYI. The unit seems built and finessed to play best on its own. Hope you find differently with your 3400. Perhaps since the piece is a powered digital amp meant to keep the signal digital from beginning to end. By end I am just before the internal speaker outputs. With the 2170 some SQ is lost through the analog outs. No doubt about it. Is the 3400 the same? I would think so, but perhaps not. @kdude......Kenny, found this to also be the case when trying various amps with his Lyngdorf.
- The hassle factor is very high to swap amps with the ICs now in play and switching of speaker cables. Also you need to run room Perfect with each set up and save. Cannot use the one unit setting for your other amps as they impart their own sound and impact on the room. Also, the 2170 always stayed on for best sound and I never had to worry about heat or anything with this cool running 25 watt pulling piece.
Anyway, just my experience. I still get tube amps in here to work on and will never stop loving all that is tubes! Not trying to push you to like this or that and really do hope the 3400 is also magic with your tube amp. Nice to change things up....at least theoretically 😄 |
@charles1dad Thanks Charles, won't be long to find out what's what. I kind of just want to keep the SET regardless because I spent way too much money for it which I'll likley never recoup (to say nothing of my rather large tube collection investment), additionally it's a beautiful piece, and more importantly it sounds phenomenal. |
Jcarcopo,
I understand your predicament. I currently have a 300b SET and two tube class A/B push pull amplifiers. For what I listen to 90% of the time (acoustical jazz) the SET exceeds all prior types of amplifiers. It’s simply the most convincing, pure and realistic.
Jcarcopo, it seems based on Lyngdorf owner commentary this one box component could be the ultimate solution.unmatched convenience coupled with superb sound quality. You will soon find out if this applies to your circumstances and desires. Same scenario IMO with regard to waltersalas. I’m very curious to read both of your listening impressions.
If both of you decide to sell your respective SET amplifiers then it would seemingly confirm what current Lyngdorf owners have been enthusiastically posting. You may in fact end up being "pleasantly surprised" time will tell.
Charles |
@grannyring I've been a SET fanatic for 20+ years, The flexibility of using the TDAI 3400 as both a DAC, Roon Endpoint, 400w amplifier and preamp to feed my SET amp plus the room correction are the reasons I bought it. I sometimes just feel like listening to certain music with a set amp and at times I crave the power from solid-state for bigger pieces of music. This solution allows me the best of both worlds using my Luxman AS-55 amp switcher to feed the Encores either tube and solid-state output effortlessly which is my main goal. I'm all for the idea of TDAI-3400 replacing my SET amp, but I'm not holding my breath because on certain pieces of music the sound my amplifier produces is just glorious in the mid-range and excels on female vocals, jazz, small acoustic pieces.
I'll be very pleasantly surprised if it this piece replaces my tube amplifier.
|
The Lyngdorf units sound much better when used as a total system. Using another amp, regardless of the amp, deteriorates the sound in my experience. I have tried several tube amps, SS amps, and even Lyngdorf’s own 2400. In the end something was lost and the magic was reduced. Sure at first you will notice differences and be enchanted, but over a period of a week or two when you go back to using the Lyngdorf completely you will quickly learn what I have. The synergy and reduced complexity of the one box system with its short signal path and reduced cabling is the key.
I dont blame you for trying, as I did, but over the last 3 years the above learnings have emerged. Just remember to let the amp section in the 3400 break in and be on for 12 hours before making any conclusions. |
@waltersalas Excellent news! |
Pertinent update: my Encores are shipping today. Let the good times roll!
|
@waltersalas Sure, I'll share my impressions hopefully in about 2 weeks or less once I receive my TDAI 3400 from Denmark. He said 5-10 business days |
@jcarcopo That plan makes perfect sense to me. I can't wait to get your impressions, not only on the sound of the Lyngdorf 3400 on its own, but the differences between that and the presentation with your tube amp in the chain. That may prove to be very instructive.
|
@waltersalas I own a pair of Nord One Up Class D Monoblock amps that I love as well as my Art Audio Diavolo SET 300b Tube Amplifier that I switch between using a LUXMAN AS-55 high end amp switcher. It allows me the best of both worlds and saves my tubes from unnecessary wear when I'm not critically listening or watching a movie or tv show. My thought is that I'll eliminate my Benchmark DAC2 HGC as a DAC and preamplifier altogether and use the tdai-3400 as a dac/preamplifier/room correction to feed my Diavolo SET Tube Amplifier and using the Luxman AS-55 amp switcher I can redirect the tdai-3400 amplifier's output to my Encores for the times I'm in the mood for tubes. It's this versatility and simplification that appeals to me the most.
The best case scenario is that I love the tdai-3400 so much that I'll sell the Nords, Benchmark DAC2 HGC, and the Diavolo SET Tube Amplifier altogether, but if not I'll just sell the Nord monoblocks and my Benchmark DAC2 HGC and keep the Diavolo in the chain for the times I critically listen to particular genres of music that benefit the most from it glorious mid-range. |
@jcarcopo It's tempting for me, too. My only hesitation is that I tried this same route a few years ago with a Devialet, only to discover that I really missed having tubes in my system. Then again, Bill (grannyring) and others who have heard the Devialet are adamant that the Lyngdorf is a completely different animal, and I believe them. I'm certainly ready to give it a try.
My concern now is vinyl playback, which is why I will be following olesno's experiences with a great deal of interest. If I ran digital only, I would be less skittish.
|
@david_ten @waltersalas Thanks! I'm excited to hear what all hype is about. The potential for simplifying my system to potentially just one simple component is very tempting indeed. |
@jcarcopo Congratulations on the Lyngdorf purchase!!! |
@waltersalas Since I sold my Mytek Manhattan II that was fully loaded I also had to replace the phono stage. I did some research and some were saying that there might be some impedance issues with matching phono stages to Lyngdorf. I decided to order the PS Audio NuWave which provides a lot of flexibility and is generally regarded as a very good phono stage. It should be arriving this Wednesday. One more thing to play with...
The other sources I am running through the 3400 are OPPO UDP 205 and also through USB input I am streaming Tidal/Roon/Nucleus+
BTW, my Lyngdorf is fully loaded with additional high quality analog inputs and HDMI ports (not sure if I ever use them).
|
I ordered the 3400 loaded with both the hdmi and the premium analog input option just in case I go down that road. Currently I'll be using the USB, NETWORK, and HDMI connections for Roon, nvidia shield, and my media server. I do not currently use vinyl. |
@jcarcopo Congrats on jumping on the Lyngdorf. Since I am a few weeks behind you and olesno in getting my Encores, I will be paying rapt attention to your impressions of the Lyngdorf/Encore pairing.
@olesno I hear you regarding the introduction of more than one more change in your system at once. It makes it more challenging to figure out what is doing what. Of course, as long as you love the difference in the sound in your room, who really cares?
One more question: are you running any sources through the 3400, or using it exclusively? I posted a separate discussion thread attempting to get feedback on which phono stages play nicely with the Lyngdorf, but I don't think anyone has responded yet.
Do either of you guys have analog rigs?
|
@jcarcopo I didn't get a chance to play much with the 3400 yet and didn't do any "room perfect" experimenting but I have to tell you that right after I put it in my system and replaced my Pass XA25 I already heard some really good things happening. I will be putting my Pass up for sale... Great amp as it is it's not a match for the 3400 (in my system and in my room).
@waltersalas My Encores should be arriving soon and I will share my impressions after a while. The problem for me will be getting the speakers and the new amp more or less at the same time.
|
Ordered a Lyngdorf TDAI 3400 today! Hope it lives up to the hype.
|
@david_ten thanks so much, David. It will be great fun to see how they sound in a few different systems, now that olesno and I will soon be getting them.
@olesno You must be thrilled! Please keep us posted on any developments.
|
@olesno That's great to hear! |
To the best of my knowledge my speakers will be shipping tomorrow. I can't wait. |
@waltersalas and @olesno Congratulations to both of you on your Tekton Design Encores.
Looking forward to hearing how they work out for each of you, especially the specific differences between the DIs, the SEs and the Encores. |
@fetguy And it was a 2 1/2 way! Get your facts straight. |
@fetguy you are mean, cold, and correct with your assertions!
|
