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Considering switching from Audio Research to PrimaLuna, troube with VS115 amp

Hello everyone, I have question that I hope some of you either can answer or have an opinion on. Ever since I was 17, I have always wanted to own Audio Research equipment. I’m 56 now, and finally was able to fulfill my life long dream. My first acquisition was an ARC LS15 pre-amp bought here used in mint condition. I paired it with a Vincent 331MK hybrid amp also bought here used in mint condition. The resulting sound was impressive. After that, I started looking for an ARC amp I could afford. The resulting search found me an ARC VS115 amp also here in used, awesome condition. This is where my problems and my doubts started. Upon hooking up the amp to my system, a tube in the left channel arced and blew a resistor. I had to take the amp to an ARC dealer and he installed a new resistor and suggested I buy all new tubes from ARC for the amp. I did and when I got back home, I again hooked up the amp and immediately upon turning the amp on, I started to hear thumping sounds coming from my left speaker, then, two left channel output tubes started to glow a very bright orange, and then white smoke started to rise from one of the tube sockets. I immediately turned the amp off. I called the dealer and he suggested I mail the unit back to ARC. I did and I am now waiting to see what they say.

During this time, I started to search out other brands and came across one called PrimaLuna. I have watched their videos and seen them compared to ARC equipment. Their build quality seems to be superior to ARC and the reviews are over the top. I am looking at their Dialogue Premium HP amp and their Dialogue Premium pre-amp. For what they cost, considering how they are built and supposedly sound compared to units costing 3 to 4 times their price, they almost seem too good to be true. Anyway, my bubble has been burst, and in simple terms, I am considering jumping ship and going with another company instead of ARC, despite all those years of drooling and waiting.

My main question is this, is there anyone out there that either owns PrimaLuna or has had experience with the equipment and can give me their opinion on owning and using it. Then, my second question is how does PrimaLuna really compare to other high end equipment such as ARC. Kevin Deal in his videos on PrimaLuna makes a very compelling case for the equipment. In one video, he compares an ARC LS17SE to the PrimaLuna pre-amp.

My last question is in regards to my ARC VS115 amp problems. Anyone have an opinion on what is going on with my amp or a VS115 in general. For those of you who want to know what else is in my system, I am using KEF 104ab speakers, a Cambridge Azur 752BD Blu-ray player as my CD player, Morrow Audio Cables and I am considering getting the Sony HAP-Z1ES music player for my digital files.

I greatly appreciate all who take the time to comment and give their opinions. I will be glad to answer any questions you may ask or provide additional. Thanks for your help. Steve.


128x128skyhawk51
tablejockey
3,892 posts
 

Tablejockey, musicpod and fsonicsmith?

"I had a customer contact me through e-mail named Mark N. Is that one of you?"

Hello Kevin, Mark here. Look forward to 11:00 Saturday.

Wouldn't using KT150's in the PL even things out? 

Ive never used the KT150, but read some users describe its performance as EL34 midrange with low end of the KT88?
If so, then the PL may lack the last bit of oomph?

Perhaps this wouldn't matter depending on music used?
Classical-no
Rock-yes
Jazz-maybe


upscaleaudio's avatar
Ag insider logo xs@2x
upscaleaudio
258 posts
 
I'll answer a few folks here:

Tablejocky - No ..we will use EL34's.  That's stock.  Remember that line? "We don't need no stinking KT150's"  We'll play some Stevie Ray and a couple other really well-recorded dynamic pieces.  

jbhiller - Thank-you for the kind words.  The amp was not broken per se.  It was the cable for the volume control came loose in shipping.  We got the amp back and simply plugged it in.  I replaced the amp because when people get new gear....it's a rush.  And far be it for me to be a buzz-kill to that 'rush" as we say in California.  Thank-you for your parience.  

skyhawk51 - Yes you can use the PrimaLuna DiaLogue Premium preamp with virtually any amp made. It has a low 256 ohm output impedance.  If you go read my videos on preamps, you'll notice you can make a decent tube preamp for $1500 retail and make money.  It's not tough.  Your preamp is a sum of parts.  Two 6922's per channel, and decent performance no doubt.  Going up will reap some benefits, but not as large as going up in amps.  The DiaLogue Premium preamp will go head to head with $25k preamps, partially due to every bit of the circuit path is done right, meaning:

Dual mono, tube rectification, point to point wiring, big toroid transformers, and details like AC Offset Killer, Takman resistors, Mundorf Mcap Evo SilverGold caps, ect.  It's 53lbs.  

But the other part of that is diminishing returns in preamps.  Have fun with what you have and upgrade the 6922's to something that fine-tunes the color to your liking.  It can be done cheap.  I know that preamp, and you can use Tungsram PCC88's in it and get a nice bump for cheap.  

skyhawk51's avatar
skyhawk51 OP
14 posts
 
To UpScaleAudio, Kevin, you read my mind. I was thinking about getting new tubes for the preamp. Since I have new tubes in the amp, I thought I would start fresh with the preamp as well. I don't know how long those preamp tubes have been in there and I wondered what you might recommend. I'll call you tomorrow about it.
One other thing, how does the reference series ARC compare to how PL are built? Do they start to use better volume and selector controls? Tube rectification and other improvements similar to PL? If not, then how do they achieve better sound at that level compared to their intro pieces?
upscaleaudio's avatar
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upscaleaudio
258 posts
 
Call me skyhawk51 909-931-9686  and we can talk if you like.  As mentioned I know that preamp and I suspect the Tungsram will rock your world cheap.  If you want to talk about ins and outs of preamps happy to do so.  


fsonicsmith's avatar
fsonicsmith
957 posts
 
Going up will reap some benefits, but not as large as going up in amps.
This is the fun debate. Kevin is not the only one with tons of experience/knowledge who believes this and just as many with equal experience and knowledge say the opposite. I don't like repeating myself. There are many more superlative amps than preamps in this world. That about sums it up. Let me ask this; if Kevin's claims about the PL preamp were true, why does the listening comparison set for this Saturday have nothing to do with his preamp vs. an Ayre, C-J, Coincident, VTL, or ARC benchmark level preamp? Why is it an integrated vs. an integrated? Taking a different approach, my AMR DP777 has many fans who believe it to be one of the best available DAC's and AMR's very talented chief designer/engineer claims it offers a top level built-in preamp. It's fine, but boring. My Manley Steelhead again features claims that it can be used as a top level preamp. It's fine but not great. 99.8% of dedicated preamps/linestages are competent but damn the rest of the system down-chain to being merely competent. Kevin is just plain wrong-amps are at their heart the simplest of electronics- not preamps. Amps do nothing more than regulate the energy coming out of your wall.

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