Considering switching from Audio Research to PrimaLuna, troube with VS115 amp

Hello, yes I did. And yes, they were all marked. They had 400 hrs on them according the owner I bought the amp from. Yes, the dealer installed the new tubes and I assumed he did bias them. I have read that some people think PL sounds better than intro level ARC. Other idea was to sell the VS115 amp and go with the new ARC VT80 amp. Anybody have or heard that amp? Steve

Thanks for your input. I am starting to believe that the PL would sound better than my ARC units due to how they are built, their premium parts, etc. I guess it is due to the fact that they are built in China where the labor costs are way down and they can put the savings into better parts. Until I saw PL, I never heard of point-to-point wiring. Does that help in the better sound quality, imaging, soundstage, depth, etc. Anyway, it seems everyone who owns this equipment, can't rave enough about how it sounds compared to anything else at any price level.

Hey everyone, its me again, Steve who started this thread. Wow! Never thought I would start such a long and spirited dialogue. Wanted to say thanks to everyone who has responded and given their two cents worth. It has been a real joy to read all your comments and feedback. I thought I would give you guys an update. I received my amp back from ARC yesterday, July 6th. I will be unboxing the thing and hooking it up and testing it over the weekend. Really looking forward to hearing how it all sounds. This will be the first time listening of an ARC system in my home. I will let you guys know what I think of it next week. As to the repairs, they replaced the V5 and V7 tubes with new ones, covered under their warranty, replaced the 4 tube, had a broken key, installed new resistors, and replaced the power switch. They charged me for a new outer shipping box, plus labor and parts. The price was  $481 plus shipping charges to send back to me. I hope it stays fixed and is reliable from this point forward. If it breaks again soon, I am bailing on it and probably buy PrimaLuna. I am really hoping that the sound challenge posted earlier in this thread comes to pass. I would love to know how PL stood up to ARC in a controlled listening test, especially against ARC reference equipment. Based on everything I have now read and considered, I do believe PL would give ARC a run for their money. It makes perfect sense. Because PL can save so much money on labor costs and other overhead that they can build superior sounding equipment at a fraction of what an USA based company can. 

In response to lalitk, I was also considering the VT-80 amp. I have the LS15 pre-amp. Was wondering about that amp. Only one review about it on the internet that I know of right now. Figured it sounded good but was wondering how it compared to older ARC equipment that was built before the company was bought and restructured. And was wondering how it is built at its' price point compared to PL amps.

One other question for anybody to chime in. How would you describe the "house sound" of ARC?

Kevin at UpScaleAudio, here's an idea that I think many on this thread might like. If you go through with the sound challenge or something like it, make a video of it and then post it on your YouTube channel. I would love to watch the event and I bet others would too. It would be awesome and quite a learning experience. You could explain how the setup was done and the proper way of auditioning equipment and comparing them to one another. Please consider it. Thanks.

Hi guys, I'm back to report an update. During the unboxing of the amp, I had to remove the plastic bag that the amp had been put in. That is when I heard a sound coming from inside the amp. As I moved the amp back and forth, I could hear something that was loose moving. This obviously concerned me so I turned it upside down and used a flashlight to see inside. Naturally, I thought something may have broken off during the shipping. I didn't see anything out of the ordinary so when I righted the amp, that is when the thing making the noise fell out. It was a piece of plastic zip tie. I was relieved that it wasn't an electronic part of some kind. Following that, I hooked up the amp and other components, crossed my fingers and flipped the switch on the amp. It came to life with no issues, so I proceeded to wait and give it a warm up period of about 30 minutes. After that, I played some jazz from musician Peter White. For the next hour I listened to him and some other music without any glitches. So far I am happy to have the amp back and can finally use and enjoy it. As too its performance, I think I need to teak my speaker placement in relation to where I am sitting to get the best sound, but over all I am pleased by the sound. Seeing the tubes glow while listening to music is a real treat and part of the over all experience I think. That is why I like the open design of the VS115 amp. After all this time, I finally have an ARC system in my home and I look forward to many, many hours of listening pleasure.

However, during this whole process of getting this system up and finally  running in my home, I do believe that my bubble has been burst about high end audio in general, ARC equipment in particular, the industry as a whole, and the madness or insanity if you like, about how much is spent on achieving ultimate sound quality.

I think if I was starting over and hadn't been so tied to ARC coming from my past, I would have bought PrimaLuna instead for several reasons already spoken about in this thread. Considering their build quality and price, I sure I would have been more than happy if them. I think I will try them sometime in the future and compare them to ARC. I am willing to bet I may prefer them. When it comes to high end audio, I do believe we come with a set of biases that influence us in our purchasing decisions. Such as, if it cost more, it must sound better. If it is made in USA, it is better. If it says a certain name on it, It is better. All of this then lends itself to bragging rights when describing our system to others. And thus, this gets passed on from one person to another.

And finally, when you consider all the variables that exist when comparing equipment, how can you really be sure that something really sounds better or it just sounds different. You could spend all day listing those many variables that come into play when comparing equipment and when you take that into account, I think that is where the insanity of it all comes into place. People in this hobby will spend 5x the amount to achieve a perceived improvement in sound quality that may or may not really be there. And if it is, can it be heard by the person making the investment due to all the variables that exist.

I am sure that this has been discussed many times before and will again. When you think about it, this could be one of the main reasons that drive the hobby and industry which is the pursuit of the holy grail of high end audio. Hearing live music with all its nuances in your home from recorded music played on audio equipment.

fsonicsmith, I appreciate your response. I think your date on when the amp came out though is a little off. I checked and I couldn't find an ARC LS18 pre-amp. Was you referring to the LS28 model?

fsonicsmith, as to the date you first gave, you wrote 8/2018. I read that as August of 2018. That date has not happened yet. My preamp is the LS15SE version. Bought the amp from a person who claimed he was the first owner or the second owner. Been too long too remember. He was an avid ARC customer and was upgrading to more expensive ARC. The amp came to me looking in mint condition. I believe that this all started from bad tubes and not the amp itself. However, due to the amp's design, it led to my other problems I had with it which led me to start looking at other brands which led me to PrimalLuna and comparing how they are built and at what price.

jbhiller, if you are referring to me I have already given a couple of updates already. Check back in the thread. Summary, I finally got the amp back and hooked up over the last weekend. So far, it has worked flawlessly and sounds really good. Hoping no more tubes arc and cause resistors to break. Like many on this thread, waiting to see how the A/B comparison goes this Saturday at UpScaleAudio. Wish I could be there but the cost to travel there is too much. Hopefully, they will shoot some video and place on YouTube for us all. In the meantime, I will keep listening to my new setup and let you know how things go. Been considering getting a PL preamp to audition in my home to compare. I wonder how a PL preamp would go with an ARC VS115 amp?

To UpScaleAudio, Kevin, you read my mind. I was thinking about getting new tubes for the preamp. Since I have new tubes in the amp, I thought I would start fresh with the preamp as well. I don't know how long those preamp tubes have been in there and I wondered what you might recommend. I'll call you tomorrow about it.
One other thing, how does the reference series ARC compare to how PL are built? Do they start to use better volume and selector controls? Tube rectification and other improvements similar to PL? If not, then how do they achieve better sound at that level compared to their intro pieces?

Kevin, it was great talking with you yesterday. Say Hi to everyone there today from me. Hope it goes well. Have a good vacation.

Update for everyone and a great big thanks to Kevin,
Been listening to my ARC system for awhile now and no problems to report. Sounds great. Very impressed with the low noise floor of the preamp. I can turn down the volume to zero while music is playing and the sound goes to zero. Can't hear a thing. Back when I had the Vincent amp hooked up, I could not do that. You could still hear the music a little.
In a earlier post, Kevin stated he had a PS Audio Direct Stream Digital DAC for sale. I looked into that and could not believe all the great reviews about it. Watched videos on it when it was unveiled back in 2014. Was going to purchase the Sony HAP-Z1ES but could not pass up the incredible deal Kevin had on the PS Audio DAC. I knew at some point down the road I would go with an external DAC but figured it would be awhile before I could afford that option. With the price Kevin had on the PS Audio DAC, I couldn't pass on it. Kevin was very helpful in answering all my questions which helped me decide what to do. Thanks Kevin.
Anybody out there have any experience with that DAC? Some people say it compares to the dCS line of DACs.
FYI, PS Audio is planning on coming out with a new product this Fall to go along with that DAC. It will store digital files on a SSD and come with an app for use on a tablet to manage the music. They hope to unveil it at the Rocky Mountain Audio Fest this October. No word yet on what it will go for.