Considering switching from Audio Research to PrimaLuna, troube with VS115 amp


Hello everyone, I have question that I hope some of you either can answer or have an opinion on. Ever since I was 17, I have always wanted to own Audio Research equipment. I’m 56 now, and finally was able to fulfill my life long dream. My first acquisition was an ARC LS15 pre-amp bought here used in mint condition. I paired it with a Vincent 331MK hybrid amp also bought here used in mint condition. The resulting sound was impressive. After that, I started looking for an ARC amp I could afford. The resulting search found me an ARC VS115 amp also here in used, awesome condition. This is where my problems and my doubts started. Upon hooking up the amp to my system, a tube in the left channel arced and blew a resistor. I had to take the amp to an ARC dealer and he installed a new resistor and suggested I buy all new tubes from ARC for the amp. I did and when I got back home, I again hooked up the amp and immediately upon turning the amp on, I started to hear thumping sounds coming from my left speaker, then, two left channel output tubes started to glow a very bright orange, and then white smoke started to rise from one of the tube sockets. I immediately turned the amp off. I called the dealer and he suggested I mail the unit back to ARC. I did and I am now waiting to see what they say.

During this time, I started to search out other brands and came across one called PrimaLuna. I have watched their videos and seen them compared to ARC equipment. Their build quality seems to be superior to ARC and the reviews are over the top. I am looking at their Dialogue Premium HP amp and their Dialogue Premium pre-amp. For what they cost, considering how they are built and supposedly sound compared to units costing 3 to 4 times their price, they almost seem too good to be true. Anyway, my bubble has been burst, and in simple terms, I am considering jumping ship and going with another company instead of ARC, despite all those years of drooling and waiting.

My main question is this, is there anyone out there that either owns PrimaLuna or has had experience with the equipment and can give me their opinion on owning and using it. Then, my second question is how does PrimaLuna really compare to other high end equipment such as ARC. Kevin Deal in his videos on PrimaLuna makes a very compelling case for the equipment. In one video, he compares an ARC LS17SE to the PrimaLuna pre-amp.

My last question is in regards to my ARC VS115 amp problems. Anyone have an opinion on what is going on with my amp or a VS115 in general. For those of you who want to know what else is in my system, I am using KEF 104ab speakers, a Cambridge Azur 752BD Blu-ray player as my CD player, Morrow Audio Cables and I am considering getting the Sony HAP-Z1ES music player for my digital files.

I greatly appreciate all who take the time to comment and give their opinions. I will be glad to answer any questions you may ask or provide additional. Thanks for your help. Steve.


skyhawk51

Showing 12 responses by tablejockey

The PL line is a great buy, when kept in perspective.

The reviews and my ears pretty much agree that if you want something at least "in the middle" of "high end" audio, PL is among the best value lines.Whats better sounding is subjective.

If you insist on made in USA, matching feature for feature,build and aesthetics, IMO you will pay more.

As a fan of performance audio since the 70's, I've heard plenty of great ARC,VAC,etc..and for the money PL gives enough of what pricier US and boutique stuff does for considerably more.

My PL Dialogue HP integrated with tube/power cord tweaks keeps me satisfied enough to forgo seaparates. This was after enjoying the basic Prologue series for several, trouble free years.



"I checked out the Rogers High Fidelity. Awesome sound but like the VSI75 somewhere around 8-9 grand. What do they say? C'mon Man!"

dolfan1467-
I feel the frustration.Rogers vs the PL however, ISN'T an apple to apples comparison. The Rogers is a space heater CLASS A output, while the PL is  A/B. That, and of course Rogers is US made, separates the PL and explains the price gap along with Rogers also uses even more premium components. Build quality 
is equal. I believe the entire Rogers line are configured as Class A output.

Heard the 34S-1. Nice sonics and good looking but at $20K, that's a chunk of change I devoted to my entire system!

That said, I mentioned in an earlier post I'm a PL HP user and would love to have a rack full of USA gear. Being in the same age group as you however, I'm forced to have a pragmatic outlook on expenditure, due to retirement on the horizon.

The PL HP series does hang with the "big boys" in a good enough way. The nice thing is if you're not satisfied with it stock, a little tube and cable tweaking will  push the PL closer to ARC,BAT,VAC...territory.  Notice I said CLOSER, not it will
perform exactly like the US stuff.

Maybe that can change if one is capable technically, and swaps some of the internals to goose it a little more? Hmm....

Goes without saying good sound is the sum of all parts-source,speakers,amp,setup and room treatment.


Wow! I see this discussion is STILL going on.

Watches? I get the "hobbyist" and "status" thing. I ride a bicycle that cost as much as a used car.

At the risk of sounding like a PL fanboy, I believe there's possibly an anti "made in China" bias thing in this thread.

Sonics is what it boils down to, and its subjective.

Kevin, PM me if you do organize that showdown. I'm local and certainly would like to hear what separates the 2, sonically.

I believe one WILL produce more convincing music, but how wide is the gap?
And for HOW MUCH$$??

















"Check your calendars if you can please. Most happy to host you. I love dinking around with gear."

Kevin, Saturday-15th clear for me. Great, if this day works for everyone else willing to come.


"It's official. We will do an precise level-matched A/B comparison of the ARC VSI75 and the DiaLogue Premium integrated amps. 

I think thats a great choice for a shootout Kevin, count me in. Since  I have the HP and have admired the VSI75 since it was introduced, I'm curious to hear the differences especially since I was considering a used piece without ever auditioning one.  

Should be interesting and surprising?


"I want to work with the best time for everybody. Bob Levi says he will be here at 10AM. It's so blasted hot in California now it's hard to do anything during the day but stay in and listen to music. I would almost like to say 11AM so I can go for a motorcycle ride in the morning. I'm easy."

Who can come, and what time is best?

Kevin- the freeways shouldn't be too bad for my hour drive,so whatever time works for everyone else is fine. Looking forward to listening to some interesting results. I think I know what I may find more engaging, but I'll save my opinion until I hear the truth.




Tablejockey, musicpod and fsonicsmith?

"I had a customer contact me through e-mail named Mark N. Is that one of you?"

Hello Kevin, Mark here. Look forward to 11:00 Saturday.

Wouldn't using KT150's in the PL even things out? 

Ive never used the KT150, but read some users describe its performance as EL34 midrange with low end of the KT88?
If so, then the PL may lack the last bit of oomph?

Perhaps this wouldn't matter depending on music used?
Classical-no
Rock-yes
Jazz-maybe


"Level matched. Double blind too if you can figure a way to do that. I want the change from amp to amp to be instantaneous as the mind is not as sharp as people think." 

I agree, our minds aren't so sharp when it comes to sonic memory. If you or someone else figures a way to incorporate the double blind-double thanks!

Any chance that amazing Avenger setup making an appearance? Hearing the PL with A1 gear/cables is always a treat. 






Hey pokey!
"Unblinded" Man, my memory is shot! What album is that cut on? 
I only have Texas Flood and Couldn't stand the Weather.

As pokey has stated, everything sounded more alike than dissimilar.

 What's next? PL HP separates vs ARC reference? May I submit my RSVP now?

Thanks to Kevin for hosting an enlightening demo. Well done.

I chose the PL w/KT150's as the most pleasant of the 3. All shared more similarities than differences, and I could be satisfied  with owning one of them.

Oh, I do(PL HP)The PL did have more weight in the low end. The mids and highs were more difficult to discern with my tinnitus, but I will say it simply was more convincing(most realistic)

I'm distraught by the difference the $14K Focal Sopra displayed over my $3k speakers! I know...silly. Kevin, can I demo those Sopra's for a couple months?

We listened to SRV's "Tin Pan Alley" at a nice level(not ridiculous loud) and all 3 amps were great. This wasn't a "what's best"  test.

Kevin also gave us an under the hood comparison on build quality. The PL looks just as good as higher priced gear.

My thought BEFORE the demo was the VSI75 wasn't going to present something the PL didn't have. Confirmed.

The demo has made me think twice about trying the KT150 in my amp. I use 6L6G's which I have preferred over the EL34 or KT88. 

Hello pokey77-I was the stand up guy. Which other listener are you?


"But I do agree that listening over a much longer period of time would show more of the minute differences in these fine integrated amps."

Hello pokey77-these amps were so close, that to REALLY discern the differences IMHO,I need to hear just 3-5 second "snippets" and IMMEDIATELY have the ability to switch to the other amp. Even though Kevin did a fine job of switching, it's just not fast enough.

My  sonic memory just isn't that good.

On a side note: I'm discovering the PL HP really does need to be opened up to hear what a fine piece of equipment it is. I listened to that SRV cut  at a very high level-3:00 o'clock, and my speakers really came alive. I played "Tin Pan Alley" from the record I purchased in 1984! WOW

"anyone what were the driver and gain tubes used for this comparison? I assume stock Primaluna 12au7 for both the Premium and HP?"

samzx12-box stock tubes  Kevn was hesitant to use KT150.Plumbing was Nordost Heimdall II. I think speaker cables were Valhalla