daledeee1 OP
The Denafrips would have been good except it is out of stock for 10 weeks. The Denafrips Terminator and the Holo Spring Level 2 or 3 are very close, the Holo can also be switched to NOS (none upsampling) which I preferred, and it can do DSD if you ever need to listen to it. https://www.stereophile.com/content/holoaudio-spring-kitsun%C3%A9-tuned-edition-level-3-da-processor https://kitsunehifi.com/product/holo-audio-spring2-dac-kitsune-tuned-edition/ Holo now have the "even better" May Dac
https://kitsunehifi.com/product/holo-audio-may-dac/
This is a good paragraph from the Stereophile review to give an insight to it’s sound. The Schiit, Mytek, and HoloAudio are all elite, music-friendly DACs. I enjoy each in its own way, but my comparisons suggest that staunch audio objectivists—those who already favor DACs with newfangled sigma-delta chips (like the ESS ES9028Pro will undoubtedly prefer the Mytek products. Meanwhile, old-school audio reactionaries—those who favor the purity of single-ended triode amps and the musicality of all those discontinued R-2R DACs—will find the chipless Spring a refreshingly clear and unusually natural-sounding alternative to both sigma-delta and all those discontinued and "obsolete" DAC chips. What most separated the HoloAudio from the Schiit and Mytek DACs was the Spring’s astonishing transparency, which seemed to reach deeper into the digital quiet—especially with DSD recordings.
Cheers George |
Sorry, but this is complete rubbish.
Some of the best dacs out there use ESS chips - Ayre, Brinkmann, Lumin, Mytek.
I've owned a "good" R2R dac - a Metrum Pavane - and the Ayre QX5, Mytek Manhattan II and Lumin X1 with their ESS chips walk all over it. And, yes, I've owned all of them.
The idea that R2R dacs have "unmatched bounce" or are more detailed is just ridiculous. The current generation of ESS chips are outstanding which is why they are used in many
very high end dacs . I am really sorry but I would have to say that you might be off on some points. I used to own a metrum onyx and then the Hugo TT2. The TT2 did sound better than the metrum. The metrum is a great dac. I have also hear the mytek and ayre that you were talking about. They are good but they are not some of the beat dacs out there by any means. The MSB line up are R2R based dacs and blow the mytek and ayre out of the water by a good margain. I recently bought the dCS Bartok and imo it is head and shoulders above the dacs that you mention as well. It is not a traditional r2r but a version of on developed by dCS. They call it the ring dac which is fed by FPGAS. |
I've seen the same type of discussions over cartridges and tone arms etc.. in analog. I think the Topping with the AK4499 chip will work well for you. I liked their older chip the 4490 I had in an integrated amp and I like the ESS 9028 Pro I had in a Benchmark DAC3B. If anything the AK chip has a more laid back presentation but to me it's really hard to tell good measuring dacs apart. |
The dCS Bartok is a great DAC. It measures well , has digital filters, up samples is not NOS and costs $13,500. |
From what I read, the new AK chip addresses the laid back, dark, murky(whatever people call it) It is more dynamic and open.
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A lot depends on how the chip is implemented there are 6 filters on the 4499. I have read the Topping D90 is very transparent. |
If I hadn't just bought a new streamer/ dac I would buy one for comparison to the ESS it looks like a great deal. |
Since this thread's about the latest chips, is anyone else keeping an eye open for implementations of the DAC11001a? Its a new R2R chip from TI- I never imagined there'd be a market for such as they no so long ago discontinued the PCM1704 with no direct replacement. Its not designed for audio applications but some of the guys at TI are interested in hearing how it sounds and are planning an audio evaluation board. At present there's only an industrial one extant.
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The Topping D90 is a phenomenal dac! One of the best dac’s at any price IMHO.... Have had it for 3 weeks now, and its imaging, transparency to the source, detail, dynamic snap, tonal accuracy, and impact are jaw dropping .... at $699 its shockingly good...It is still has somewhat caramel like coloring like most AKM chips do, but to a much less extent.. Also, somewhat has very grayish background, as opposed to the complete black. Its very system and cable dependent I ’d say.... My Cardas Golden Crosses are somewhat laid back already, and I ve used a custom "high" resolution interconnect in place of the Cardas Golden Cross IC, and the D90 readily revealed a new sonic signature of the new item in the system... Also I ve been using it as a preamp as well via its balanced outs, into the Classe Dr-3 Class A amplifier (which itself is also somewhat on the darkish side in some set ups) and I hear D90 is even more transparent as a stand alone dac if used with high quality preamp, but which option is more transparent is highly system dependent as usual... Also been burning in the Gustard A22, uses 2 AKM 4499 ,with much beeifier power supplies, different parts, and uses different layout (by the way, a HUGE shout out to CJ at the Apos shop for getting me this unit in 3 days during a lock down in China!!!! Exemplary service and attitude of guys at Apos)... Too early to comment definitively on the Gustard dac, but I d say we have hit the golden age of performance where dacs at relatively small sums (compared to 10 of thousands $ in the past) provide awesomely musical and enjoyable sound to music lovers at any budget!!!
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Thank you kot. My D90 is arriving today. Have you tried the different filters? |
Congrats Dale. Let us know how it goes. With a 30 day trial period from Apos, you can't lose. |
@daledeee1 as far as filters I ve been using whatever default values there are ...Have not played with them extensively
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I got the D90 hooked up. I already had good sound stage. This thing just adds more. No drifting of image, more air with wall to wall sound. and at times(depending on recording) I felt like I was in a holographic sphere of sound. I opened my eyes to make sure where the speaker sits. Everything just sounds rich and beautiful.
When I got it I could not get it to turn on. The manual is a rough translation and could use some work. It will not power up unless there are interconnects with signal going through them. Also, the instructions are backwards for the voltage setting.
So far, everything I have done to my system has been a step up. The next step would be very expensive and I will sit right here for awhile. Famous last words.
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@daledeee1 It does not need a manual.. Any audiophile worth his/her salt will figure out its menus, the menu is very simple .....
It will turn on without interconnects, you need to to turn the AUTO setting OFF from the MENU option....
I suggest give it at least 250 hours of break in with music (not just keeping it plugged in) for "serious" evaluation.... But even right out of the box that thing is something extraordinary one can tell !!! AND FUN!!!! Enjoy !
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Hey daledeee1,
am in similar shoes as you. Have the Bluesound node 2i and am considering adding a topping d90 to the chain. Would you let me know if there was a noticeable difference in the sound when listening to Bluesound node 2i direct as against when listening through topping d90, and was that difference for the better in terms of over all sound quality? Any negatives of adding the d90?
thanks! |
Hi charan11.
I have listened to the D90 about 4 hours so far. This is the first stand alone DAC I have ever owned.
I don't want to down play the Node 2I. I think it is a pretty good item considering it cost me $420,
I
bought a $30 coax and plugged in the Topping into the Schiit Aegir power amp. Right out of the box it
sounded better. There
is a way to bypass the preamp but for now I am running it at full
volume. I haven't spent much time evaluating the 6 filter settings.
It has a better, wider, taller sound stage with accuracy and clarity. Differences in placement of percussion is easily recognized. Good tight bass, wonderful piano and vocals which I think are difficult to get right. Bass guitar string vibrations I have never heard before.
I am kind of rusty on all this audio stuff since I just replaced my whole system in the last few months. Oh how times have changed. I have a kind of old school speaker set up. Big Bob Crites boxes with horn mid and tweeter with a couple powered sub woofers There is no evidence of speaker anywhere in the listening experience.
There are several other brands to look at, most cost more. From what I have been reading and am experiencing, value and performance is pretty high with the D90.
Apos Audio is excellent to deal with. I got my piece from Hong Kong is 7 calendar days. They price matched, kept me updated, helped me with operator error, added a year warranty and have 30 day return. They don't sell a wide variety of stuff but are good to deal with.
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Thanks Daledeee1! Thats very helpful! Especially happy to hear that the DAC does a good job with vocals👍 They are always difficult to get right. |
There are R2R DACs that beat Delta Sigma DACs, and some Delta Sigma DACs that beat R2R DACs. So it’s not so much as the technology type used but the “execution” that is different.
However, it does seem that as you move up the food chain $, R2R DACs appears to be more prevalent as the preferred choice.
Also, as with most things tech, I’d expect better and better DAC chips will be introduced/upgraded over time. |
#1 There is nothing simple about a turntable receiver and speakers. The OP must have no experience with cartridges, tonearms, turntables and phono preamps, the best of which will have an overall cost of at least 2x the best DAC.
#2 Whoever mentioned that it's not really about the DAC chip, but about implementation, is absolutely correct. The best wolfsons and burr browns can still compete given the proper circuitry engineering. Manufacturers have put in a lot of time money and effort to develop and utilize them over time. The newer dac chips may just me more adaptable to changing times and easier/cheaper to utilize properly. Needless to say that newer chips are more future proof, hence, more practical to buy.
#3 My CA Azur 851N uses dual AD1955 and I'm completely happy with it as a streamer (preamp mode sucks for some reason connected straight to a power amp) but I'm researching the topping D90 vs the Node 2i for a friend so here I am. The comments about the AK4499 chip in the Topping DAC reminds me a lot about the consumer feedback on the CA Azur 851N. Lots of air, wall to wall sound, incredible staging, punchy, not slouchy, etc. It makes me want to believe that chips with this AK4499 is superior but I'm sure its success is based much more in its implementation. I am just wondering if the bluetooth function of the topping d90 dac will work as well as vs connected to a streamer like the node 21 or azur 581n.... |
Since my thread got kick started, I will comment on my thread and D90. I have had it nearly a year and have listened to it about 300 hours. I upgraded my amp to a Pass XA25. I still use the D90 connected directly to my amp. I have horn speakers.
I agree with the premise of implementation vs chip brand.
The sound from my system is very detailed, clear, great soundstaging, dynamics. I could say it it analytical and clinical but not sure. Since my purchase, I have found some other DAC that would probably be worth a try. Audio Mirror, MHDT and Schiit. These have tubes and would be interesting to try with my setup. For now though, I find the music from my system quite satisfying. I am not disappointed and don’t regret the purchase at all. I don’t see very many D90 come up on the used market so maybe that is a good sign.
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I have many single end device and class A amp. So I would just recommend Topping D50s. It uses 2 x ES9038Q2M DAC chips. I use solar panel changed Li-Battery pack to power D50s for lower noise. It is is a $200 DAC and basically can toss it after years when better DAC come out. I use Tidal , Qobuz and Foobar2000. D50s supports highest DSD512 and PCM 32bit/768kHz.COAX and OPT of D50s supports hightest PCM 24bit/192kHz and DOP DSD64. |
