coincident speakers do you have troubadors

Conquest, super conquest, eclipse...

I have a pair of Coincident Troubass. They serve as the stands for my Digital Masters, kind of like the Wilson Puppies sitting under the WATTs. The Troubass perfectly match both the Troubador and Digital Master, and make the appropriate stand for either Coincident satellite.

Personally, I like them a great deal, even though they're not nearly as efficient as Israel claims. I can say they're down a few dB from the satellites. With my Digital Masters, they're not exactly necessary, but having that last octave on the bottom provides the music with its foundation, which adds a nice bit to the end result. I don't always have them hooked up, and when I don't, I can't say I couldn't live with the sound as is, it's good enough. They definitely fall into the camp of "a good sub is only noticed in its absence" type of subwoofer, as opposed to the wowie zowie, look at me type.

They mate well enough with moderate power tubes, though the 10" Peerless drivers in the large vented cabinets provide close to blow you back kind of bass with the right solid state amplification. I definitely feel the matching satellites are best served with transformer coupled tube amplifiers.

I don't mean to seem like the negative type, but you're going to be extraordinarily hard pressed to find a pair for sale (I wouldn't sell mine for 10X what I paid for them), let alone in whatever finish matches your Troubadors. I don't ever remember a pair of Troubass coming up for sale here on Audiogon. A person or two has told me they approached Israel about having a pair made, and they were refused, though I have no first hand experience with that. Should be an easy buck for him to make, unlike the Troubador or Digital Master, each of which have no parallel sides, as the cabinets are very simple and straightforward.

Good luck!

Thanks for the info and I have sent Isreal an E-mail asking for a pair but he must be to busy with his 8speakers to be bothered with the earlier stuff. My Troubadors are cherry high gloss and very pretty. My brother has been "playing" with builing speakers but these may be a bit over his head.I am running solid state but could go tube at anytime. What I have works well. Love the sound of the Troubadours for old, old, blues and jazz. Like some classic rock too but when I hear the old female vocals nothing sounds better. If you ever want to sell the Trubass keep me in mind although do not know if I could afford the 10x price. Ha Ha Thanks so much for you input as it helpfull. Lori

Thanks, but the statment I wouldn't sell them for 10X what I paid for them just means they're not for sale.

Apart from matching the veneer, building a Troubass would be relatively straightforward and simplistic for any cabinetmaker of moderate ability. The crossover is a simple cap/coil network, the driver is a 10" Peerless 1727XL (I believe it's the 1727 of the XL subwoofer driver line - I bought 4 of the driver which replaced them for a project of my own design), the wiring is off the shelf 12 AWG OFC, and a vent is obviously nothing exotic.

Unfortunately, Israel not getting back to you seems to be par for the course. He does himself more harm than help by doing little to support second, third, etc. owners of the product. I used to firmly believe that Coincident was going to become one of the legacy companies in this industry. The products and marque once had everything going for them - good construction, good looks, good sound, easily driven by low-moderately powered tube amplification in the early days of what was to become an enormous tube renaissance. All things considered, Coincident should have perhaps become the most successful loudspeaker company for the type of dedicated audiophile that you find on Audiogon, AudioAsylum, and AudioCircle. It's sad on a certain level, but he completely squandered the fortunes of the company by his dealings with both customers and dealers alike. Human nature is such that people are often their own worst enemies, and do more to sabotage their own success than any/every other factor combined.

Thanks again for your response and the info on designing the speakers. I will pass it on to my brother and see if he can make them for me.

Intresting to hear your opioion of Israel and his company. I had heard of others who got no response from him also. What a shame it is for a business person not to take care of their customers.

Good chatting with you.

Israel has always answered my emails within hours & his products are the best I've experienced.

I must say that I am astounded by some of these comments. Coincident has thrived for the last fifteen years not only because we offer tremendous components but also due to our relationships that we have established with our customers. We do not rely on huge marketing budgets nor getting cosy with industry insiders in order to promote our line. People buy our products because they outperform others AND because we offer expert, on going support to Coincident owners.

My personal record for responding to emails and phone calls is unique in the industry. Return emails are sent always within 24 hours and 80% of the time within 2 hours. I spend endless hours on the phone communicating with audiophiles and indeed , a large portion of our business is generated by word of mouth.

I take great offense to the blatantly untrue comments made by Trelja attempting to impugn my devotion to Coincident owners and prospective buyers. I have a folder which contains every email sent to me within the last 3 years with my replies to them. There is not a single one that did not receive a timely response to an inquiry. To suggest otherwise, is a malacious lie.

Israel Blume
Coincident Speaker Technology

I've only had a wonderful experience in my dealings with Coincident and Israel. He has never failed to respond to my emails,and in short order,He even helped me out with his knowledge in the purchase of some used equipement, with no benefit to himself.Way above and beyond, for which I'll always be thankful.
Regards,
Monte

Israel Blume, "I have a folder which contains every email sent to me within the last 3 years with my replies to them. There is not a single one that did not receive a timely response to an inquiry."

Based on Horsnit not getting a reply to his Troubass inquiry, the streak of EVERY single e-mail being replied to has been broken. Darn, I hate when that happens!

I would like his email address and the date it was written. If I received it, it was replied to.

Your glib final sentence is uncalled for.

Israel Blume

Israel Blume, "Your glib final sentence is uncalled for."

If you look up the definition of "uncalled for" in the dictionary, you'll find the entry references using my name and opinion in the advertising on your website without my permisssion. I'm formally asking you here and now to remove it.

Well what have you done to get his attention?

I agree with your view on his products have Troubadours and would love to have Trubass but do you think he cares?

Doubtfull, and its a shame because he should. The early sales of his speakers is what brought him his claim to fame

Wow first thing he is a she and not a he-she. No offence take "guys". ha ha

Isreal I did send you an E-mail but I will have to look in sent files to see if I have deleted it but it was within the last week.

My Dad spoke with you and praised you. I have great respect for your products and have always wanted my Dad's Troubadours. He sold them to another friend of mine(who also tried to contact you to no avail) and I just bought them. I just want some info on Troubass so I can enjoy them for as long as I can. If you have no time to build a relatively simple speaker then ok give me the info so someone else can.

See I figure sometimes we get to big to remember how we started and thats ok if you MAKE IT RIGHT.

By the way I must agree with the EVERY single E-mail being answered it is not happening and darn I am hating that it has happened to me. Of course my Dad got personal phone calls back. Oops I forgot that was ten years ago. Must have been the six hundred era.

Firstly, I have not received any emails from you or anyone else in the last 2 months about Troubass sub woofers.

Secondly, we ceased production of the Troubass 10 years ago. They were specifically developed to augment the low frequency response of the Troubador which was discontinued 10 years ago as well.

We do not offer one of a kind speakers since that method of production would be cost prohibitive. The only way Coincident can offer the finest value speakers in the world is to build them on a larger production scale.

Coincident phone lines are open to anyone interested in direct personal advise. If an email is not received for reasons beyond our control, we cannot be held responsible. I will repeat, any emails received( and judging by the volume of email we receive, most must be getting through) will be answered in an expeditious and thorough manner.

Israel Blume
Coincident Speaker Technology

I will gladly remove any customer comments on our website attributed to Trelja.
If this was a problem, why have you waited years to voice an objection?

Israel Blume

I'm going to stand right up here and call you a liar, Israel Blume.

The fact is I've received several e-mails since last night that refute your claim about answering every e-mail that you receive. Beyond that, even before receiving them, Horsnit's probably the fifth person I've encountered over the years who've mentioned Coincident's selective communication.

No one would have a problem with an entity not producing a product that was discontinued 10 years ago. Ignoring folks who inquire about them is another kettle of fish.

I'll thank you for removing my name and words from your website. With as many fans of the product you've had over the years, including me, why you would feel the need to resort to post comments of people on your website without first having asked permission of the person or offering any compensation is something that I question.

After perusing the Coincident website, I discovered one comment attributed to Trelja ( which was posted years ago) which I have instructed my webmaster to remove forthwith.

Our policy is that we post customer comments as we receive them. In fifteen years we have not received a single objection from anyone until now nor has any individual requested financial compensation to have a comment posted. If anyone raises opposition to having their comments posted , we will gladly remove them. We will never offer a monetary inducement to receive a customer comment.

The theme initiated by Trelja, is that since Coincident has grown to such an extent since its inception, a less attentive, responsive attitude towards interested buyers has developed. Nothing could be further from the truth. Coincident has grown tremendously over the years and become a true success story in large measure because of our devotion to our customers. Coincident sales would not be increasing every year because we are offering less in the way of service. This is nonsense. We strive to provide the finest support, service, and expeditious shipping of product possible. No matter how hard we try, we acknowledge that we will not be able to satisfy 100% of the people, 100% of the time.

I will no longer entertain any further dialogue with you( Trelja) as you are not worth the time or the effort. Continue to malign me at your pleasure. For whatever reason you now have a rather large stick up your ass and you feel the need to attack me personally. The wonders of free speech on the internet ( with the additional advantage of anonymity) gives everyone a forum to vent.
You can continue and no doubt you will, but it will be without my participation.

If anyone has any questions or comments about Coincident, I invite them to email or call and I guarantee, a timely reply will ensue.

Israel Blume

Israel Blume, "Coincident has grown tremendously over the years."

TOTAL BS. A company which sells direct should offer pricing more attractive than one with a dealer network, which only adds another layer of cost into the equation. However, as the Coincident dealer network collapsed (ask any former dealer why), and the company went to a direct sales model, the loudspeaker prices, have not only increased, but substantially so. Inherently, a more expensive product line will sell less in terms of quantity, forget about the fact that we're dealing with the shrinking market of high-end audio.

Israel Blume, "Our policy is that we post customer comments as we receive them."

Again, TOTAL BS. You didn't "receive" them. Let's be clear, you cut and pasted them from a post right here on Audiogon way back. Receiving something infers permission was granted; taking them in the manner you did implies nothing of the sort. That's a not so subtle difference.

Once again, I restate my earlier post, Coincident WAS ONCE an ascendent company, one I felt would have joined the likes of the truly successful loudspeaker companies like B&W, Totem, and Vandersteen. With the tube renaissance, combined with the high (though not as high as claimed) sensitivity of the loudspeakers, the stars were truly aligned for that to happen. Many dealers, three of which being the local dealers in my area (Philadelphia, PA) came close to taking on the line for obvious reasons (Coincident makes a damn good speaker), but decided not to for things unrelated to the actual product. Again, what dealer network that was built has completely faded.

Trelja,
I'm confused. You have continuously complemented the product (would not sell for 10x the price you paid) yet you seem to have an axe to grind with the man who created it. It seems to me you have a personal vendetta...
If you want to pick a fight, I quess you can pick one on anything.

Monte

Personal discloser. Happy customer of Coincident

Well I sure did not have the intention of starting all of this I simply wanted to hear from others who owned Troubadours and especially Trubass. I also have high regards for Coincident and am extremely glad to own a pair. Mr. Blume maybe my E-mail got lost in cyberspace and if so I am sorry but so have others. I will try to contact you again and see what happens but I do respect you for designing great speakers even though they are to expensive for someone like me. Trelja sorry to get you so fired up and you were very helpful to me and I appreciate that. To all enjoy the music whatever system you have!

By the way Mr. Blume I have been led to believe that the Trubass is a relatively simple design. Given that, if you have a customer who is willing to PAY to have them built how can that not be cost effecient? Not only do you stand to have a customer who is happy but you may have a repeat one who, if given the economic means, may purchase from your current line. I think that the hardest part of building the Trubass would be matching the finish to the Troubadours. If you don't want to produce them how bout sending me the design and I can ask another to do so?

Teljia,
I have no affiliation with coincident nor do I own his speakers (yet). I have spoken to Israel on the phone several times and he was more than gracious. I find it somewhat disturbing that you would go to great lengths to bash a very reputable company with great products especially when you have such high praise for them. There definatley seems to be a hidden agenda here that you should work out somewhere else. Your argument is quite pitiful and childish and to top it off you sound like a real ass. This forum should be used to help others out and for information, not to bash hardworking people who are doing their best to put out a great product that competes with the best, but for a whole lot less.

Israel,
Don't fret getting beaten up a little here. You can't please everyone all of the time. I FOR ONE AM A QUITE HAPPY CUSTOMER. The only way I will ever get rid of my conquests is to finally move up the line.
You have been great to deal with over the years. I still want a factory tour next time I'm in the neighborhood. Take care and keep up the great products.
Emery
(remember my Dynaco MKIV's?)

Emery,

Thanks for the kind words. The numerous emails and phone calls I consistently receive expressing complete satisfaction with Coincident more than compensates for the odd complainer who has an axe to grind.

I do remember you MK IVs well. Great little amps.

Israel Blume

The pity party aside, if you cannot get the specs on the Troubass, Horsnit, just let me know. I'll post the details so you can put a pair together.

Trelja,
Perhaps you should produce a run of Troubass,you know you would do it better,as it is so easy to produce,and there ya go...

Personal Discloser. Still a happy Coincident customer

Thanks for your encouragement, Montejay, I appreciate it.

I was involved with Fried before Bud passed away a few years ago, and in my opinion, Bud and I had some really exciting ideas we wanted to move forward with. While the Troubass is sure enough a marketable design, would probably would fill a void in the marketplace, I think that there are other strategies also worthy of a serious look were I going to market it - for example a Line Tunnel (pseudo TL), which I also have in a pair of floorstanders as well as a matching sub can offer superior transient response and articulation of the notes without adding additional strain on amplification. Also, another pair of subs I have which feature a sealed box with on-board power (Class A/B amplification) using a more recent Peerless subwoofer driver design are also worthy and interesting in that the matching sat I have with true TL and series crossover presents probably the finest combination of musicality, imaging, and ease on the partnering amplifier I have encountered, and allows me to run very low power tubes without issue or compromise.

But, upon reflection, I think that North American companies are underrepresented in terms of electronics, as opposed to loudspeakers. So, now I'm about to launch a line of amplification with our partner, AtmaSphere.

Trelja,
Good luck on your launch of your own products, but as a manufacturer,you're bias and thus shouldn't use this forum to criticize other manufacturers.

Trelja,
All your posts now make more sense. Since you are a manufacturer, you should be posting that from the start. You do have a hidden agenda. I don't think Ralph at atma-sphere would approve of your tasteless posts and bashing of anothers reputation since Ralph is probably the classiest guy in the business with a top notch reputation for great customer service and awesome products. I also believe Israel uses atma-sphere to voice some of his speakers, so it would be bad business to bash him like you are. I am glad that people are behind Israel and I am glad people think you are out of line.

Not only is it totally classless for any manufacturer to comment negatively about any competing product in a public forum, to do so covertly and under the guise of being an objective audiophile with no vested interest, falls under the category of fraud or at a minimum devoid of ethics.

Israel Blume

I'd like to say that I am also a very happy customer.I had some hiccups along the way and Israel dealt with them very quickly and professionally!

Mike.

Israel Blume, "Not only is it totally classless for any manufacturer to comment negatively about any competing product in a public forum, to do so covertly and under the guise of being an objective audiophile with no vested interest, falls under the category of fraud or at a minimum devoid of ethics."

Thank you for this! That was the best laugh I've had in quite a while. Akin to Jeffrey Dahmer complaining about how it's no longer safe to go outside because of all the serial killers.

Before I move on, please allow me to address the accusation of being covert. I've been one of the more visible members of this site for a decade. Apart from being away on vacation here or there, there hasn't been a week that's gone by that I have not posted something here on Audiogon. People here know EVERYTHING about me. I was the first person to request Audiogon develop the means to have a person's moniker in the threads designate them as "audiophile", "reviewer", "dealer", or "manufacturer/distibutor". You can call me a lot of things, but covert is one that won't stick. And your competing product statement - what competing product do I offer??? You keep forgetting that I talk your speakers up, it's you I talk down.

Seriously, folks, as some of you have pointed out - I honestly like the Coincident product. I also strongly dislike the owner. The two things are not mutually exclusive. I'm not sure why that's so hard to reconcile. Just as good people can turn out good products, good people can turn out bad products. Conversely, bad people can make bad products, and bad people can make good products - as in the case of Coincident.

Why do I feel this animosity? Because Israel Blume has seriously screwed over several very close friends of mine, professionally. Which is why he no longer has a dealer network. As an awful lot of people inside the industry will tell you, Israel is truly one of the biggest sleazebags in the high-end audio business. One of his former dealers wrote me over the weekend in regards to this thread put it, "Did you know Israel was a lawyer before he started making loudspeakers - enough said." It kind of came as a surprise to me, as I had no idea of that being the case. He's done such an awful job defending himself here, God help anyone who had him representing them.

Of course he's now forced to try to provide some semblance of customer service. If he messes up the direct sales, he'd actually need to go out and find himself a real job.

Ditto. Never had any interaction w Mr. Blume, but the others have been very generous to me personally w their time and knowledge. If I had to guess, there is a complicated "back story" going on here. Not sure I want to tune in any further.

Trelj,

I stated that I would not indulge you with any more correspondence but here it is and it will definitely be my last.

I feel no need to defend myself. The Coincident history of providing the finest value components and the thousands of positive transactions with buyers speak for themselves. The fact that you, someone I do not know from a hole in the wall, and one who means even less than that to me, dislikes me, causes me not even a second thought. What does mean a great deal to me, is the plethora of emails and phone calls from hundreds of satisfied and appreciative customers expressing how their musical enjoyment has been enhanced by their Coincident purchase and experience.

You seem unduly concerned with how Coincident is operated. Again what is most significant is that sales from our inception in 1994 has increased EVERY single year including the last one, the worst year of recession in memory. Coincident has never had to use the lending facilities of any bank or credit establishment and our cash reserves are at an all time high. We must be doing something right.

As for your personal attacks on me through the use of innuendo and hearsay, they reveal more about you than it does me. Perhaps your intended purpose of creating some doubt about my personal integrity will be successful, but those who know better will dismiss you and your tactics.

Israel Blume

Trelja,
You have attacked Mr. Blume both personally and professionally in this thread.You have used third party hearsay as evidence of your position ('received dosens of emails' or 'seriously screwed some of my friends').This evidence to support your position would be tossed out in a court of law.Strange how all these people who correspond with you are absent in defending your position in this thread.
The thing is YOU ARE ABOUT TO LAUNCH A PRODUCT THAT DIRECTLY COMPETES WITH Coincident and peronally attacked the designer.That is your agenda.I have seen some of your threads on Audiogon, but this is the first time I found out you were manufacturing your own stuff.
You sound very petty and jealous of him because he creates such well regarded amps and speakers .That is the bottom line IMO.
Time to move on. This thread is making you look bad.

Something is strange here !

I have corresponded with Trelja on occassion , both on this forum and off , and found his comments quite helpful . I have also gained knowledge from his comments to others on various subjects . At times I have asked him about the negative aspects of some equipment , he has not replied with a comment . In another thread he spoke of his disassociation with a Chinese amp manufacturer , a real chance to tear them a new one ! Again he did not ! I have always found Trelja to be a kind , upstanding and informative contributor to these forums and quite the statesman !

I am not trying to defend Trelja or impune Mr. Blume . One should read some of Trelja's past posts and judge for themselves as to his character .

Again , quite strange !

So that makes Tvad, Swampwalker, Saki70 and myself that have only had positive dealings with Trelja. I have known him since 2004, had numerous conversations, correspondence and even bought a jadis amplifier from him. Let me make this clear: His transparency, honesty, forthrightness, range of knowledge, humanity, total lack of negativity, meanness or mailice when discussing personalities and products, has always struck me. if A'goners are rated, Trelja is a 100. Therefore something extreme must have precipitated this - we may or may not find out, but I, for one bet my house, my car and my Audio system on Trelja's total integrity. Count on it.

Let me add my $.02 as well.

I've had both personal and professional associations with Joe. His integrity and honesty are beyond reproach.

I'm not so sure about the other guy.

Another accolade for Trelja -

When Joe was falling out of love with the Chinese manufacturer whose product he distributed, the dammed fool went public with all of the problems he had with them BEFORE he sold off his stock to the 'unsuspecting' public. Read his current ad's for his residual products if you doubt his honesty.

I've never had any dealings with the other guy either.

I'd like to personally thank everyone who both participated in this thread, and have contacted me offline for their perspective and support. It's been encouraging to say the least.

I know nothing of either guilty parties on this thread, but it seems as if someone (Trelja) has an axe to grind and wants to grind it with everyone watching.

Like the sands in an hourglass, so are the days of our lives...

Well I started this all with a simple question which Trelja took the time to answer me. I have the heart of an audiophile but not all the knowledge. I use Audiogon as an area of learning. I read numerous forums both here and there, ask questions, and am starting to learn how electronics work. KUDOS for Trelja for trying to help me when he probably knew I was a bit of an idiot. I do not care if he if a manufacturer, actually I an glad because if I have the means to I WILL do business with him. I also swear by my Coincident speakers but could NOT get answers from Mr. Blume. No big deal I found someone who could help me so I no longer desire his help. Once again, thanks Trelja you are an A-1 audiogon member and I will continue to try to seek your help and advice!

What a food fight....this is ridiculous kids.

I agree but they started it. Oops acutally I did. Sorry really didn't mean to initiate such a food fight.

Wow, I feel sort of bad since I am the one who sold Horsnit the Coincident Troubadors. I also attempted to get Mr. Blume to build me a set of Trubass subs. He simply told me he would not build them and aimed me at a more expensive set of Coincident speakers for sale on Audiogon.

While I understand his reasoning for not supporting an aged set of speakers no longer in production, I could not afford to go out and spend $2800 on another set of speakers when I had just purchased the Troubadors. I had hoped that he could have steered me in a direction to someone who might build a pair for me or maybe given schematics on how to build a set (maybe he has them archived).

Either way, the Troubadors are excellent speakers and I have no doubt that Horsnit will enjoy them over several bottle of wine, cases of beer, glasses of gin, etc... you get the picture.

Maybe in the future, if I am financially capabable, I will entertain the idea of purchasing another set of Coincident speakers but for now I am bound by the economic chains of Democracy.

Horsnit, great post and sorry to see it get so out of hand over a simple question.

Trelja, I am sure you meant well as did Mr. Blume. It is easy to misinterpret what people type online since you cannot read what they may have meant to say. Good luck to you and I look forward to reading more posts from you.

Mr. Blume, thanks for a great pair of speakers. I enjoyed them for the time I owned them.

Horsnit, good luck finding someone to build you a set of Troubass subs. I am sure you will find someone who is willing to do so without costing an arm and a leg.

"He simply told me he would not build them and aimed me at a more expensive set of Coincident speakers for sale on Audiogon"

This is one of the most amazing statements I've ever heard. A manufacturer took his time to look up and point you to a USED pair of his speaker on Agon? Geez...what an unselfish and compassionate thing to do. In this economy particulalry since he is losing a sale and there is nothing in it for him. Asking anyone to give you the blueprints for something he designed as part of what he does to put food on the table is pretty silly. No one is going to want to build someone a retired product for several reasons. Call up GM and ask them to build you a 57 Chevy or ask Apple to build you an original Imac. I don't think so. Let's have some common sense folks. There is plenty to criticise in the audio industry, but this isn't one of them.

"Asking anyone to give you the blueprints for something he designed as part of what he does to put food on the table is pretty silly."

You know... I was trying to be polite and nice and all and I get a freakin' sarcastic, and rude response. I believe I explained why I didn't want to purchase an extremely more expensive pair since I HAD JUST BOUGHT A PAIR. I also explained that I wasn't upset with Mr. Blume.

As for your comment, which appears to be an attempt to continue a negative posting procession, Mr. Blume explained that he NO LONGER MAKES THESE SUBS. So how in the world would that be taking ANY food off of his table.

You are comparing Mr. Blume to GM but I doubt you go to a GM dealer to get your repairs done due to the fact that they charge more than most auto shops. Nor do you go the the GM Facility where your vehicle was made since they will refuse to do it there. Mr. Blume DOES do repairs on his speakers and DOES attempt to help albeit not necessarily the way we may want him to.

You have given an inept attempt to compare apples and oranges here. Your lack of ability to "read into" a post, and the use of preconceived notions as to what you already plan to say, show your lack of neutrality on this topic.

" There is plenty to criticise in the audio industry, but this isn't one of them."

Thanks for the criticisim on my post and I couldn't agree with you more.