I am not sure, but I really don't thnik that it would be allowed - it's not as if these designs are really public domain. And besides, there is still the expense of transformers, casework, and often obsolete parts (one of Pass' amps, for example, uses obsolete JFets...)
Now, if you go talk to a manufacturer in our neighbors to the far east, maybe a factory could be convinced...
:)
b |
So OK for DIY projects to then flip on Audiogon or ebay, but nothing that really resembles a business?
One of the reasons for my question was that I assumed a lot of the old classic circuits were more or less in the public domain by now.
Doesnt Nelson Pass allow that? Or would that be just for personal use?
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Tim Rawson builds certain clones. |
Why do you think there is a great market for older M series Yamaha class A amps! |
Do you mean "Replica" of old class A amps. That is what they used by criminals to commit a fraud. They sell pricy things like Swiss watches using the fany makers Name and Trademarks and do a pretty convincing job of it.. Almost every Dupont lighter on ebay is guaranteed to be a Replica. They are never sold as replicas just a real emphatic this an 100% Authentic .....
If you are honest I am sure there are several designs that are copied so much they are Icons and have become public domain, such as the Long Tail Mullard scheme for tube amps. The makers of these amps don't say that this is just an old ho hum design but the amp they make under their banner is full of all sorts of new and better technologies.If You sell a Pass like type A amp please get Permissuion and a liscense from him perhaps you can call it Brand Passionite-X based on a true Pass design.
You can always find the Schemata of the old great amps and many I assume have used some of or most of the old design to build their own Brand. I hope they never say this is a Krell KS or KM series no plataue bias amp "replica" . Just call it your amp company model 100-A pure class A etc...And do us all a favor by not making it exactly like the brand you are using for a template. It would be better to do a few things differently and don't make the amp appear to be a Krell or whatever.. |
There are still patent issues to contend with. Nelson Pass is kind enough to share some product design with the DIY community, but I'm pretty sure he stipulates that any use be non-commercial. I think there was a licensed clone of the Aleph 30 available at one time.
I'm not aware of Krell or others releasing designs, so you are talking about pirated copies.
Hypothetically, if I bought such a Clone I'd want some assurance of support over its lifespan. That would drive up the cost and make the clone far less competitive with the original. |
Cayin and VAS claims to build clone's of a number of tube classic HK, Marantz and Mac units. From what I understand the design's are in the public domain. It is very hard sonically to tell if it is true as few people will have functional, working units of the old units. |
I beleive Threshold (Nova Audio) re-released the s/350e.
www.thresholdaudio.com |
Another major issue is coming up with the parts that they used in the originals. Transformers in particular are troublesome... |
So are the Tim Rawson Aleph J clones "approved" by Nelson Pass? |
They do have patents, you know?
Does anyone remember Nakimici ? I believe they ripped Pass at one time.
Sometimes smart designers do stupid stuff just to see if anyone copies.(This can be very interesting)
It costs allot to manufacture, even if you just copy someone else. Items like the heat sinks are very expensive to produce in small quantities. A good portion of the product cost is the Faceplate/chasis.
Are you planing on getting UL approval and using serial numbers? I've seen some cheap knock-off stuff that does not even have a serial number or UL. |
Are those issues of Nelson Pass provides the DIY community with the schematics? Not sure. Though if someone built one of these things without knowing what they are doing and a fire starts.... From what I can tell, Tim Rawson does know what he is doing. |
I believe Nakamichi licensed Stasis technology from Pass. |
Patents used to have a 17 year life, now its 20 although I think its grandfathered. At any rate, any amp or whatever thats 20 years old is now in the public domain, and anybody can build it and sell it, as the Patent system intended.
P.S. I have several patents, but not in the audio field. |
Cwlondon - Finding good schematics of class A is not a rocket science but running successful business is very hard. Not only good design but controlling cost is the key. In addition not only good manufacturing and quality control is required but also marketing. Who will buy unknown expensive product especially without reviews? Some magazines like Stereophile tend to review only brands that advertise with them. It requires large capital to start operation and many years to build any reputation while reputation of Pass Labs or Krell might not be achievable at all. |
