Classical Music for Aficionados

Schubert,

 I’m listening to the Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto with Chung on Spotify right now.
 It is a gorgeous performance.

btw, In case anyone doesn’t know, One doesn’t have to buy CDs any more to hear virtually any extant recording in CD quality sound:
 If you buy and hook up the Chromecast Audio device (about $35) and you have wi-fi, all you have to do is access Spotify on your iPhone or tablet, and Voila!, you have the entire range of the extant recorded catalog available to you. If you don’t want commercials on Spotify it just costs you $5 or $6 a month.
The sound is almost identical to the actual CD although nitpickers will hear a difference. But, for the price .......
Technology is amazing!

That's why I buy BIS Cd's and now buy only old Vanguard LP's from the 50-60"s , the sound is always good because these companies never made
a bad sounding one .
Vanguard was run by audiophiles and has most natural sound I ever heard .

“The best is the enemy of the the good.”
 I have some 10,000 combined records and CDs, but am paralyzed to play any one of them until I find something that sounds the way I want it to.  It’s insane how the hi-fi compulsion takes over at times.
 Of course, the music’s the thing, but the ogre of sound gets in the way when you’re an audiophile like me as well as a music lover.  
If you let it.
Alas!

Since there have been a number of string concertos mentioned in this thread, I figured I'd recommend something a bit different:

Tuba Concerto by Edward Gregson - John Fletcher on Tuba with the Besses o' th' Barn Band (Chandos Label 1982 Recording)

It's a great piece, fun, upbeat, with some jazz influence especially in the third movement.  The recording sticks the soloist far to the left of the soundstage, which is a bit odd, but maybe that's where he was standing when they recorded it.  It's the original ensemble and soloist the piece was commissioned for though, and most of the other recordings are orchestrations for full wind ensemble or orchestra instead of the original brass band as accompaniment.  

Have been listening to symphonies and concertos by J.J. Raff, a composer who produced a number of orchestral masterpieces, was popular (even dominant) during his lifetime (romantic period) but is hardly known today.
A recording of his 5th symphony on Chandos is available from HDTracks at 96/24 by the Suisse Romande and Neeme Jarvi; typical Jarvi in being very, very fast and emphasizing the larger lines and gestures. Makes the 5th sound like a masterpiece but races through the 2nd Andante movement so quickly it loses its sublimity.
And I would offer a "Dives" award to this symphony's 2nd movement but, frankly, it's even better than that...
So this HDTracks download has sounded strange from the gitgo and I checked it out in the studio and there is noise in certain portions of the file -- noticeably in crescendos and other dynamic transitions.
E-mailed HDTracks about this and they responded with an "it's not our fault" e-mail. Third time I have tried HDTracks and they continue to disappoint. Surprise to get this kind of audio disappointment from Chandos. The promise of HD downloads continues to elude me.
So have settled on the 2000 Carthy recording of the 5th with the "Orchestra della Svizzera italiana." This "dynamic" recording is available from Amazon and has better tempi than the Jarvi.
Have, as well, the older Bamert recording with the RSOB and it is OK but a bit too sedate.
Raff's piano concerto is, similarly, a major work worth investigating.

Rarely, you will get a recording that has a composer, a soloist , a conductor
and a orchestra all of whom are both Great and at the very peak of their artistry .

One of these is Tchaikovsky’s Violin Concerto, played by Kyung Wha Chung with Charles Dutoit conducting the Montreal Symphony Orchestra .

London 410 011-2

Here are some of my favorites:

Charles Ives Symphony No. 2 - NY Philharmonic conducted by Bernstein

Bernstein’s Mass - Sony Classical remastered 1971 recording conducted by Bernstein at the Kennedy Center

Shostakovich Symphony No. 5 - Royal Philharmonic conducted by Charles Mackerras

Respighi’s Pines of Rome - Tokyo Symphony Orchestra conducted by Norichika Iimori on the Exton label.  

Hindemith Symphonic Metamorphosis - NY Philharmonic conducted by Leonard Bernstein on Deutsch Grammophone

newbee,

I just got the Sheppard disc.  Very enjoyable.  Great program.
The Gershwin especially, is played with great panache. 
He has a phenomenal technique.  I don’t see why he’s not better known.

acman3.  Sorry for the typo.  Damn spell corrector!!!

amman3,

Thanks a lot for your feedback.
  It’s very encouraging!

The complete John O’Conor recordings of all 32 Beethoven piano sonatas on Telarc. Brilliant.

The Planets, Holst, Montreal Symphony, Dutoit, London

Anything by Martha Argerich, especially her live recording of Rach #3 Radio Orchestra Berlin, on Decca.

Barenboim, Chicago Symphony, Saint Saens #3 organ on DG

Keep classical alive (and jazz and rock too)

FYI , you are all doing a great job. I have really learned about a lot of great music. Classical is overwhelming in shear volume to the novice, and you are doing a service to us real  Newbees . 

Remember, people are listening and learning even if not participating.

Also, if you have a lull it is ok. Have fun!

rvpiano, FWIW you can google 'Michael Sheppard, pianist' and you will get several hits which will give you some background on him and this disc. These are for the most part transcriptions (for which I'm a sucker, especially the music of Liszt, Prokofiev, and Wagner) but they are more original in their selection than most and some are Sheppard's own transcriptions. I hope you enjoy.

newbie,

  You’re right, it is a heavy lift trying to keep this thread going.  But, we got off to a good start.  Just have to get the more reticent to participate.

 I’lm going to get the piano record you recommend. I’ve never heard of Michael Sheppard.  Have to give him a try.

P.S .  I payed 10 bucks for this fantastic DVD on Amazon . bought 2 just in case .

.
I’ll look to the Melartin newbee , The Tampere. like the other "minor"
Finnish bands, are very good , like everything else in Finland .
During Holy Week, as is my custom , I listen exclusively to
religious music ,about half early music . Dufay, Ockeghem , Palestrina. Monteverdi, etc and IMO the greatest of them all , Josquin des Prez .

Of course the other half is devoted to, you guessed it , J.S Bach .
The Cantata’s are the main course but I end up with the piece my
favorite conductor , Herbert Blomstedt, convinced me is Bach’s greatest
work , his Mass in B minor .
I listen to it on DVD with headphone system on my trusty 50" Samsung Plasma with the great Blomstedt conducting an Orchestra he loved and who loved him , the Leipzig Gewandhaus .
I don’t think the Mass could be played or sung better than on this EuroArts 2005 DVD , recorded in Bach’s own Church , the St. Thomas .
To watch a great conductor conduct a great orchestra with no baton and the
least amount of hand beats needed is a uplifting in and of itself !
The extra bonus of Blomstedt expounding why he thinks the Mass in B minor is Bach’s best is a treat not to missed !
Blomstedt himself is a devout Christian and yes, that does make a difference .

RV, FWIW you've got a tough job ahead of you if you want to keep this going. Just not that many classical music enthusiasts on this site, especially ones that will actively participate. 

Since you are a professional pianist I thought I would mention a compilation solo piano CD that I not only enjoy totally, but that I also you as a reference for my system. "Michael Sheppard plays Rodgers, Hough, Barber, Sheppard, Crumb, Corigliano, Wild, and Balcom, on Harmonia Mundi. I just don't tire of it. This is very accessible music for anyone who is a bit venturesome.

In the same vein, but for full orchestra, another modern piece that is not only accessible but very enjoyable. Erkki Melartin's Violin Concereto on Ondine. The Tampere Phil conducted by Leif Segerstam.  Hard not to like this piece.

I would like to revive this thread before it dies out.

 I was just listening to the “Decca Sound” box which has a  section of classic performances issued on Decca.  The first two I listened to were “knock your socks off” sounding blockbusters from the Decca catalog:  The Alpine Symphony with Blomstedt and Mahler’s 8th with Solti. Then, rummaging through the collection I selected theShostakovich 5th with Haitink.  As I listened I noticed the sound was markedly wrong compared to the first two.   The Haitink was, sure enough, a digital original — completely wiped out of sonic excitement.
Not that all digitals are bad.  Some are spectacular.  But it’s interesting that Decca didn’t do a better job of mastering for the “Decca Sound.”

Ijcazador, If you haven't already heard this, you might like John Ogdon and Brenda Lucas doing some of Rachmaninoff's music for 2 piano's. On ASV CDDCA636. Suite #1, Suite #2, Prelude in C minor Op3 No2, and Russian Rhapsody. 

FTM
When I listed my favorite classical pianists, somehow I left John Ogdon off the list.  I especially treasure his Rachmaninoff.  I am not really a big fan of Rachmaninoff, but I love the Preludes and the Corelli Variations.
Also, when I mentioned Komitas, I left the best recording off the list.
Grigory Sokolov plays Komitas, Six Dances for Piano on his "Live in Paris" recording,  wwwnaiveclassique.com.
Review of a book about Ogdon here:
https://www.theguardian.com/music/tomserviceblog/2014/apr/07/john-ogdon-biography-piano-man

Looking through my Schumann Symphony collection I found a set I forgot I had (normal these days).
Sounds like the original version and not like someone thinking they knew better
than Schumann !
Haitink /Concertgebouw/ Phillips 416 126-2 Excellent sound , far more natural than most CD’s . Just wonderful performances . Schubert, Schumann and Brahms , three birds of a feather, flying together . Thank you , God .

Are you sure this performance is on Blu-ray?  Can’t find it anywhere.

Mahler 4th Bluray Fritz Reiner

"It’s only right, then, that we mark Johann Sebastian’s 333rd birthday not with the usual seriousness and solemnity, but with the exuberance of the season: this composer and his musical wife knew not just how to make babies, but also how to sing about sex."
 https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/03/23/bach-and-the-erotics-of-spring/

I believe the best thing you can do is go to as many LIVE classical concerts as humanly and financially possible .
$ 1000 dollars worth of symphony tickets will give you better sound at home than a new $ 1000 whatever will .
Train 'da brain .

I don’t think there’s anything you can do about differences in hearing. Not only is frequency response different among everyone but that frequency response keeps changing with age for all of us. So it does not matter how slightly different our heads might be physically. And we all have different listening skills. And the sound changes with the weather and time of day and many other reasons, anyway. All anyone can do is improve his playback system and try to get the best sound he can.

@geoffkait , 
Yes, I do recall those efforts, but I was trying to imply that there is no microphone that will reproduce what each set of ears will. My hearing and your hearing may be completely different, just as our eyes will respectively see an image differently colored(colorblindness notwithstanding). That being said, there is no way a recording will fulfill each individuals expectations of a live performance.
@schubert ,
Yes, I agree with your post. And, I often find myself thinking how composers lived and how the times they lived in influenced their work.

One of my favorites is the 2nd movement of the Beethoven Ninth symphony.
It still seem so avant garde, but to think it was written in the 19th century...
I would have loved to be in the audience when it premiered.
And, Beethoven was completely deaf at that point...
(But, I bet he could still 'hear' it)!
B

A trite expression comes to mind regarding the music/sound discussion.
“putting the cart before the horse” sums it up well.

Yup, brain is on the job .
I believe I ,as a historian, have the good fortune of being able to put myself in the time and place of almost any  European composer from
1200 on . To me that helps a lot in understanding .

 

It’s really amazing how that works.
 The imperfections melt away as you get into the music.

agree with these comments
now listening to casals/serkin beethoven sonatas
if i listen for them, i can hear imperfections
but then that casals tone takes over, and i am gone
I have a picture of casals thibaud and cortot in their young prime
they are so certain of themselves, and they have so much reason to be
it has not gotten any better
technically perhaps yes maybe it has
but the musical essence is total
and that is what i hear

Upon reflection this what I think . All the physics are irrelevant, the psyche rules .
A 90 year Maestro who , given a hearing test, is doing good to hear
5000Hz . Yet he ,while conducting, hears the symphony as well as he did
at forty . The brain has a vast store of memory that can, and does, make
him hear that symphony as real as he ever did . The brain is always
looking to maintain a stasis as job # 1, and for that particular brain not to do so brain knows would be a major upset to its apple-cart .

Not speculation but research done at Cambridge, the worlds leading University on all things neurological .

Now I’m not Herbert Blomsted, who at 92 is still in demand ,
but I’ve heard him conduct many times and all told have heard well over a thousand live symphonic events .
I am certain the Brahms 1 I played a few weeks ago sounded very close
to the one I heard live a few hours before . And often does .
I do speculate my brain has  enough memory and knows where my passions lie to make sure that happens because at nearly 84 its not looking to upset its apple-cart .

YBMV (Your Brain Might Vary )

gdnrbob
Recorded music will never be equal to 'live' performance. Unless they can make a microphone that duplicates our individual ears, it seem we will have to accept that it comes pretty darn close.
'Suspending disbelief' is an interesting premise and one that I think has merit.

Apparently you’re not familiar with the monaural binaural recordings of yore that employed a dummy head microphone arrangement that simulated a human head and ears.  

I agree with rvpiano. Recorded music can be represented quite realistically at home if the music is small scale and the room pretty large. Reproducing the full dynamics of a symphony orchestra is just not on, and will never be, I fear. The best to hope for is a postage stamp version. In the meantime it helps to use a very powerful amplifier that can cope with the dynamic peaks and not compress them.

Recorded music will never be equal to 'live' performance. Unless they can make a microphone that duplicates our individual ears, it seem we will have to accept that it comes pretty darn close.
'Suspending disbelief' is an interesting premise and one that I think has merit.
B

schubert,  'just takes a thousand changes'

At least! :-) But you still need the 'perfect room', properly set up, and a perfectly recorded  piece of music. If that doesn't drill down the possibilities for obtaining the sound of real live music I must have missed something.

FWIW much as I love solo piano music I've yet to hear an accurate reproduction over an audio system. I'll defer on this to rvpiano  as he is, as I understand, a professional pianist.

Another similar observation - I really enjoy Sharon Isbin, one of our premier classical guitarists. I've heard her live in a specially designed recital hall where her unamplified instrument fills the hall (about 250 capacity) with crystal clear music.  I bought many of her recordings - too many actually. Not one of them came close to this live experience. 

I respectfully submit that perhaps you are really just suspending disbelief. :-)

The sheer physical size of an orchestra would seem to preclude  an achievable scale in your listening room.

It's not impossible if every item in your system does not get in the way of any other item . Just takes a thousand changes .

Schubert:

I agree, a high end system can come close to reality with small forces such as a piano, string quartet or a solo human voice.
The problem in reproduction arises with the addition of multiple instruments or voices.  The myriad of overtones projected by a full orchestra or chorus, for example, makes it impossible, at this point, to come close to reality in your listening room.
  I believe you have to resort to that “suspension of disbelief” and let your imagination fill in the missing partials.

That is not to say that a high end system cannot enhance the musical experience.
 Indeed, when you’re listening for the MUSIC, it can multiply your enjoyment to ecstatic levels.

Totally agree, newbee.  I’ve often wondered why I sometimes can get into the music better with my car radio than with my system, which is twenty times more expensive (at least.)
The reason is, I don’t care how it sounds.  I’m just listening to the music.
 I admit I have to make a conscious effort to NOT pick CDs and records for their sound quality, but for the music that’s on them.
  As you say, that is the downside of this hobby.  Ironically, if you’re not wary, it can be, and is, counter productive to the love and appreciation of the music.

If your System has no weak links you can come very close to live music .
Heard one of the greatest Brit pianists 2 weeks ago live , came home and played same music , only real difference was in volume and slight dynamic compression .
Ditto for a Brahms 1st a few weeks before that .
Synergy is everything .


I have maybe 20K in my entire system but it took a lot more than that and many years to get everything just right ,also, like anything , some luck . IMO much of it is impedence matching which is a cut and paste deal .

And yes it really doesn’t matter .

One of the downsides of elevating the performance level of an audio system is that one spends more time evaluating the system than actually listening to (and hearing) the music. Witness all of the devotion in this forum to components that are 'revealing' (uber revealing in fact) which are really doing nothing much more than presenting a sound which one would never hear in a live performance. I think (and have found) that a certain dumbing down of a system can often result in a sound that is reasonably listenable with most recorded music, not just the best recordings  over very high end systems. Since the system can no longer be expected to put a Bosendorfer in your room you stop trying to hear it and relax so you can (again) hear the music. IMHO/FWIW.

For those of us that sometimes have a problem with the sound of our systems (I know I do) I wrote this on another thread.

“When I listen just for the “sound” of my system I hear all kinds of abnormalities, but when I’m listening to the MUSIC instead of my SYSTEM everything seems to sound natural. It’s like the “suspension of disbelief” you adapt when reading a book or seeing a movie. I don’t think we can ever really match the sound of real instruments on our sets, so if we listen just for that we’re going to be very disappointed. However when we listen for the music itself, we’re not so much concentrating on the physical sound, but the musical message being expressed. So if we “suspend” the belief we’re listening to live instruments we can get into the music much more easily and the instruments sound just fine.”

Anyone into Komitas?
He was an Armenian priest, composer, and pianist, nearly killed by the Turks.   Much of his music is based on Armenian folk tunes.   Some people today associate his music with Gurdjieff.  His background included classical training in Germany.
Recordings I have are

Komitas Piano Works (Armen Babakhanian) 2006 (2 cds)

Komitas - Piano and Chamber Music 2017
KOMITAS (KOMITAS VARDAPET) (1869-1935)
PIANO AND CHAMBER MUSIC
SEVEN FOLK DANCES • SEVEN SONGS
TWELVE CHILDREN’S PIECES BASED ON FOLK-THEMES
MSHO-SHOROR • SEVEN PIECES FOR VIOLIN AND PIANO
MIKAEL AYRAPETYAN, piano
VLADIMIR SERGEEV, violin
Catalogue No.: GP720
Recording date: 15 December 2013
Recording Venue: Great Hall, Moscow State University of Culture and Arts, Russia

Komitas - Levon Eskenian, The Gurdjieff Ensemble
2015 ECM Records GmbH, Munchen
on original Armenian instruments


Zemphira Barseghian, recorded at Harvard, 1993, MEG Recordings
(piano, also other composers)

Komitas, many compositions of all sorts
Diocesan Records, NY 1970, DR-631, Distributed by Garni

Yes I like Anderszewski, a lot

Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart 1756-1791
1] Fantasia in c minor K475 .
Fantaisie en ut mineur . Fantasie in C-Dur 13:18
Piano Sonata No. 14 in c minor K457
Sonate pour piano en ut mineur . Klaviersonate in C-Dur
2] I. Allegro 8:08
3] II. Adagio 8:44
4] III. Molto allegro 5:49
Robert Schumann 1810-1856
Fantasie C-dur, Op. 17
Fantasia in C major . Fantaisie en ut majeur
5] I. Durchaus phantastisch und leidenschaftlich vorzutragen 12:09
6] II. Mäßig, durchaus energisch 8:17
7] III. Langsam getragen. Durchweg leise zu halten 11:30
Thema mit Variationen in Es-Dur WoO 24 . Geistervariationen
Theme and Variations in E-flat major . Ghost Variations
Thème et Variations en mi bémol majeur . Variations “fantômes”
8] Thema - Leise, innig 2:02
9] Variation I 1:30
10] Variation II - Canonisch 1:38
11] Variation III - Etwas belebter 1:39
12] Variation IV 2:06
13] Variation V 2:13
TT: 79:14
Parlophone 2017

Bach English Suites 1, 3, & 5
Warner Classics

Chopin
3 Mazurkas Op 59
3 Mazurkas Op.63
Ballade No. 3, No 4,
Polonaise No 5, No 6
Mazurka Op 68 No 4
Virgin Classics

All excellent, would download more if I could find

Piotr Anderszewski
I just found him through Spotify.
Wow.
Has anyone else listened to him?
B

One of the most neglected modern pieces for viola.
Kammermusik for Viola and Orchestra Op.48/ Paul Hindemith
Werner Albert/ Queensland SO/CPO 999 492-2

Also has 3 more viola pieces including the "Schwanedreher" Viola Cnt .

Another seldom heard in US is Walton's Viola Concerto . Outstanding CD  on ASV by Helen Callus /New Zealand SO/ Taddei

Yup, the Davis, Imai version was the first one I ever listened to. I really loved it.
B