@rgrost
You should consider the fact that the problem lprules1962 had with your USB cable was an isolated incident. It's also possible that your 1m cable would not have worked in his system either.
I'm quite sure the problem stemmed from his
Sonnet Allegro Pro USB 3.1
card. My Stealth Audio USB T-Select cable doesn't work on my computer's USB 3.1 outlets either. I used the USB 2.0 outlets to A/B test the JCAT USB card.
With all due respect, I think it's too soon for you to limit your USB cable sales to only 1 meter in length. You should evaluate the issue further with other customers that use completely different systems just as you did in your own system.
lprules1962 now has the JCAT Femto card and it shouldn't have a problem with your USB cables at any length.
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Glad to know unexplained, strange, hard to believe, hard to describe, things happen even to the Audio Gurus. LOL!
ozzy.
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So now the weirdest thing. I am putting a new floor in my office and had to move everything into a spare bedroom. All my runs of USB from my computer (printer, scanner, and multiple test machines) now were much longer than before. I wanted to get up and running but the only longer USB cables I had were the longer Matrix which "do not work." One by one I hooked up my gear and as I plugged each one in the computer recognized the device and functioned perfectly. I am fully up and running without a single hiccup with cables that were rejected by high end equipment. So...what exactly are they doing that is different than standard USB configurations? All incredibly curious. I will continue to work on this but in the last three years Cerious has sold only 5% of its total sales in interconnect over 1 meter long. Perhaps making the best sounding USB cable in the world that is only 1M long will have to do...
Bob Grost
CT |
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Hi Bob,
Whatever you what me to test - 1m is workable.
Still intrigued about the length leads to noise problem.
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Bob,
Has anyone else had a problem with a 1.6M usb cable? I would like to offer myself as a tester for the longer length also.
ozzy
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Once again OZZY hits it on the head. Hard to believe that going from a 1M to a 1.5M would cause so much trouble. Here at Cerious we do not do things like most high end companies. We are first, and foremost, an engineering company. One that lets the sound ultimately dictate if a design is successful or not.
I can say with impunity that the conductors in the Graphene Matrix USB are the most sophisticated ever designed for a USB cable. The main data+ conductor is flat to 6 GHz with virtually no time error or energy storage. This is why it sounds so incredible @ 1 Meter. It also functions as a 9 gauge conductor so length should matter less with this cable than any other. The key elements of the "trials" have come down to 2 things:
1] the longer cable works perfectly with "less expensive" gear and 2] the exotic gear plays but with severe static. Both of these point to high end manufacturers "omitting" filtering in their digital circuits and input stages to "sound better". Apparently the bandwidth capabilities of the Matrix USB are causing problems, as hardware manufacturers "assume" they will never see an input reaching into the 6 GHz range. Lower end hardware assumes it must work with everything so they employ filtering to make it utterly stable, hence the instant locking and play.
As an engineer what is so fascinating is higher end gear decoding the digital signal, but having static pop through the output stage. If noise is present at the input the DAC should not know how to deal with it and either ignore it or treat it as dither and decode it as an error correction. Neither would result in "pops". This has to be a ground plane issue - one that we can only address by severely limiting the bandwidth of our cable which kind of defeats the purpose of making such a radical cable in the first place! That simply is not an option for us. I will continue to work with our Beta tester as I promised him I would figure out a way to make him a 1.6M USB and I do keep my promises (whenever possible...). If however we are confronted with the choice of "degrading" our Matrix cable to make it "more like everyone else's cable" or simply say it only comes in lengths up to 1 meter then that decision is an easy one. 1 meter it is!
Perhaps I can talk lprules1962 into moving his equipment closer together... |
This may not be relevant but I am using a Bryston BDP-3 usb player with my Cerious Matrix 1 meter usb cable.
Hard to believe an extra 1/2 meter would cause so much trouble.
ozzy
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@c_avila1
For a new commercial product the manufacturer cannot assume anyone to have a very specific set of equipment/setup/components in order to use a product.
In this case even if the new JCAT card will alleviate the problem the R&D must continue to make the said cable working in all situations. Like other working cables do.
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You’re welcome. That USB card is one of the best values that I’ve come across in this hobby next to V-Cap’s new ODAM capacitors.
I suspect that the culprit to your USB problem is your current USB card. It may be faulty or low quality. Have rgrost send you the original "faulty" USB cables when you install the new USB card to see if the problem persists.
I’ve encountered the same problem before when I attempted to upgrade my computer. It wasn’t the DAC nor the USB cable that malfuctioned. It was the motherboard’s USB connectors. The JCAT USB card took care of the problem once and for all.
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@c_avila I am using Sonnet Allegro Pro USB 3.1. the JCAT card looks good. I do not know it existed. Will explore it.
*** Update - just read up the JCAT card - ordering one now. Thanks c_avila!!!
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@lprules1962 What's the dedicaded USB card that you're using? I have a JCAT Femto USB card powered by an LPS and it's quite transformative of my system. Apparently, the JCAT Femto network card with an LPS is more crucial to your setup than the USB card. Having both would be ideal.
@rgrost I'd like to offer my services as a beta tester for your USB cable as well. I would need a cable at 1.5 meters or greater and it would be tested on a computer with a dedicated USB card powered by a linear power supply. The cable would connect to a USB powered diyinhk dxio pro3z that feeds a custom tube dac. My system's amp is a Pass XA25. |
As discussed, I will be testing a long version of the Matrix USB from Cerious Technologies.
Test equipment list:
Computers:
MacBook Pro
Media Server - 6 cores Intel HEDT CPU, dedicated USB card, will try both motherboard USB headers as well, as well as dedicated USB ports.
Main Server - 16 core AMD ThreadRipper CPU, 20 TB of M.2 SSD storage, dedicated USB card, will try both motherboard USB headers as well, as well as dedicated USB ports.
USB Devices:
Musical Fidelity V-Link USB/SPDIF convertor - this unit actually powered by the 5V rail from the USB cable.
Musical Fidelity M1 DAC - USB input
Wadia di122 digital decoder - it has USB input
Bryston BUC-1 USB/SPDIF convertor
Berkeley Audio Design Alpha USB - USB/SPDIF convertor
Mark Levinson 30.6 reference DAC - needs either the Bryston or the Berkeley to feed via AES/EBU, does not has USB input
EMM Labs reference DAC - has USB input
Will give results to Bob and will share with the forum with Bob’s permission.
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That's ok. I thought perhaps you posted to the wrong thread.
ozzy
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No, do not own the Cerious, just the Transparent. Sorry, not trying to derail the thread.
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emtrey,
You are aware that this thread is about the new Cerious Matrix usb cable? Do you now own one?
ozzy
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I am using a Transparent USB Reference ($695. retail )but I got a B stock cable for $425) between Roon and Ayre DAC.
Unfortunately, due to the back order status of the Roon when my streaming system was installed, I never tried the Roon w/o the USB cable.
The difference was noticeable immediately with both the Roon Nucleus and Transparent cable connected. The next morning after an overnight burn-in (part of the suggested 80 hours) it sound even better.
As a guess I would assign 60- 70% of the difference to the cable and the balance of the server. |
After you see the system lprules1962 has you can see why I trust him as a beta problem solver...
Bob
Cerious |
All cable are from Cerious Tech.
Matrix Digital
Matrix XLR interconnects
Matrix and GE power cords like 7 of them or 8
Matrix Speaker cables.
Except two Power cords from Nordost
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Robert you are a rare breed of honesty and integrity. To others - Bob is working on the problem with longer length of the cable. I ordered a 1.6 meter from Bob I need slightly more than 1.5 meter hence the odd length.The first one came and it is not working - computer does not "see" the cable. Device manager could not detect the connected devices.We though it was a faulty cable and Bob sent another one. And this was the results:
- Connected to my main music server computer to berkeley
audio design alpha usb to EMM Labs Reference DAC - sound has static noise
- loud noise - non stop – while music is playing at the same time.
- Connected to my main music server to Bryston BUC-1
USB converter to a Mark Levinson 30.6 reference DAC - computer did not see
the connection.
- Connected to my main music server directly to the EMM
Labs DAC directly - no sound. And computer did not see the connection.
- Connected to a MacBook Pro and a Musical Fidelity M1
DAC - works.
- Connected to a MacBook Pro and Bryston BUC-1 USB
converter - no sound - computer do not see the connection.
It is most certain the length is problem. All components work otherwise with my existing cables. I will work with Bob to see if the length problem could be solved. For you reference my main system is as follow: Custom Build Music Server computer EMM Labs Reference DAC
Berkeley Alpha USB
Bryston BSU -1 USB
Mark Levinson 30.6 DAC
Mark Levinson 32 preamp
Mark Levinson 532 amp
PS Audio P20 Power Generators
Egglestonworks Andra III SE speakers
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Hi everyone...Bob from Cerious.
In case you have not noticed, Cerious is not like most other cable companies. Our focus is getting our customers better sound and the "business" side takes a back seat. In this end if you have a "situation" you do the most to hide it and cover it up. Not us, however. We have a really weird situation going on with our USB. I must first say it is amazing sounding, as long as it is 1M or shorter. Longer Matrix USB are affecting how components "lock" in on the signal. It is completely hit and miss. The 1M and less are now bulletproof, but we are working with thlprules1962 as our Beta tester on longer USB cables. Oddly it is the most exotic pieces that refuse to lock. The "cheap" system locks and plays immediately. I value the open forum here and did not want him to have to "hide" what was going on and feel like he could not respond. This is not fair to him. We are working on it and will be sending several longer versions to try to get this resolved. This will not affect any current 1M or shorter Matrix USB cables which are the most sophisticated USB cables ever made and I agree that they just may make the biggest difference of any cable we make. In the mean time we (obviously...) will only be filling orders on 1M and shorter USB cable until we get this resolved. Thank you so much and will keep you posted...
Bob
CT
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Thanks gents for posting your results. I am also very happy with the results, but I said that about all of the Cerious Matrix cables.
thlprules1962,
Did you get your CM usb yet?
ozzy
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Just got mine. It is a very good cable. In my system, I feel the improvement in sound with Bob’s usb cable is even more noticeable than his Matrix interconnects and power cables. I was using a couple of $50 usb cables that are often recommended by the cheapskate crowd. The improvement with the Matrix USB, dare I say, is huge. Thanks Bob!
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So I’m hearing an expanded sound stage with a quiet/black back ground and details, details, details. The cable has definitely gone through some changes during the breakin process. Once again I don’t have much to compare to but the matrix USB has made a big difference in my system.
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Has anyone else received the Cerious Matrix usb cable?
ozzy
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lprules,
Congrats!
I think you will be quite pleased.
ozzy
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Ordered mine.I have replaced my Nordost Tyr 2 loom with all Cerious Matrix cables (power cords, interconnects and speaker cable). Never look back.Only cable not Cerious is the USB - using Curious USB (which replaced a Lightspeed, in which replaced a Nordost).If the new Matrix USB is as good as the interconnects I will be very happy.
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Sorry about that...Data+DC cable... |
The Matrix is a "Traditional" Data+CD cable. It is only traditional in configuration... |
I still not quite understand. So now Matrix USB is traditional power+data or data only? |
Yes OZZY and LANCELOCK got final production versions. We will add a Graphene Matrix DC cable soon. We are awaiting connectors from Oyaide. We had to develop a full Matrix DC for the USB. Trying real hard to keep the price down. I looked up what some USB are going for...please do not tell me wife, she will want me raise my prices. A $6000 USB cable? Really? |
Hello from the Hot Desert of Phoenix, AZ. Good news! Our USB cable is done. VERY happy with the results. I first, however, have to address that it is not a powered version of a USB. This proved to be fraught with interface problems as many equipment manufacturers have their own specialized way of addressing the +5V in the USB and bypassing this causes problems. That and cost. If it is a TRUE Matrix, then it requires a Matrix power cable and a power supply worthy of being called Matrix. Add an enclosure robust enough to handle a Matrix power cord and you are looking at a $2700 USB cable (!). While there are USB cables out there at this price point, Cerious is not "geared" for something like this. Call me crazy...
So our production USB is a full Graphene Matrix Damping Squared digital cable + a Graphene Matrix DC cable all in one jacket (yes it has the reactive jacket found in all Damping Squared Matrix products). As a thank you for all the interest we are offering our GM USB for the introductory price of $849 for a 1M. We would have to sell a separate GM DC cable for at least $399 (yes we are working on this!) so you can see the value this cable brings, not to mention attaching 4 effectively 9 gauge conductors into a USB connector (I go through a lot of eye drops...). Of course everything we sell comes with our 30 day money back policy (we still get emails asking if we have a money back policy...strange...). If you would like to try one then email me directly or go to our website and hit the submission request button and let me know you want one. I will return an invoice so we can get you taken care of.
Thank everyone so much for all the kind words and I hope you all are having a great summer.
Bob Grost
Cerious Technologies
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yoby,
You probably have to contact Bob. He may have not settled on a price yet.
ozzy
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Price? I didn't see it on the website. |
littlecx,
I guess early on in the design Bob was going to make this cable externally powered but he said the cost would have pushed the cable price way up there ($3000+). So his current Matrix design is a standard usb A-B cable.
ozzy
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What you use to supply the DC 5V power? |
I’ve got my mine burning in and I’ve never had anything more than a cheap stock USB cable so I can’t give a good comparison like Ozzy can. What I can say is when I first connected it the improvement was huge and dramatic. I never bothered with a fancy USB cable because we’re talking about 1’s and 0’s and nothing can change the way those digits are delivered right? As soon as I found out Cerious was offering this I had to try it. I’m glad I did. Can’t wait for what break in has to offer.
Lance |
littlecx,
Yes, I guess it does. Probably uses the same type of design.
ozzy
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That means same as other matrix cables characters? |
The USB Cerious Technologies Matrix is still improving. It is developing into a deep rich sound. This doesn't mean dark, no just very effortless natural sounding.
ozzy
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Ok, its been a couple of days since receiving the Cerious Technologies Matrix usb cable and I see there are plenty of views so I will comment as to what I am hearing thus far.
First off, like all of my other Cerious Graphene Matrix cables it takes a day or two to settle (due to the slurry inside) and it may not be done settling yet. The first day it was ok, but subsequent days it is better.
Usb cables really shouldn’t make a difference, at least that is what I originally thought. When I purchased the Curious cables from Australia I was impressed by what a usb cable could actually do. So there has been reason to believe that even usb cables can effect the music sonically.
Now the Cerious Technologies Matrix usb is even better, even this early on. It has much more meat on the bones and provides better dynamic swings in the music. With my equipment I can’t believe I could get any better sound.
I am not sure if the cable I am trying is a production model (it looks very nice) so I’m not sure what it will sell for. I am thankful to Bob for the opportunity to be able try out this little gem. I’ll comment more as I get more hours on it.
ozzy
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Results/outcome should be interesting.
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I will be comparing the Cerious Matrix USB to Curious, Acoustic BBQ, and Pangea AG usb cables.
Bob say to give it about 100+ hours for break in and settling.
So, in a few days I will post my impression.
ozzy
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Any particular cable you will compare it too? |
