I've had a few different speakers that shared similar attributes to the Adagios. Sound engineers who master albums on speakers with a forward stage will produce work that suites these speakers well. The majority of engineers out there base their work on the most common devices out there (nothing really good). Especially for material that is expected for mass consumption on the go.
I also heard the Vandersteens (Quattro I believe) once for a short period and they are the polar opposites to the forward sounding speaker. Everything happens further away, pushing to you become drawn into the sound. They do well with imaging that is finely defined, good depth and layering, and a relaxed sound. There in lies the issue with it. It can be overly relaxed on recordings that were intended to be edgy in sound. For me, a bit more distant than what I find ideal.
You do have to understand that mastering methods will cause different recordings sound best on a variety of different speakers. Nothing will be truly ideal with every recording out there. My experience with forward sounding speakers is that on daily basis, they will prove to be fatiguing far too often. Based on my recollection of the Adagio, it would be quite the challenge to tune these speakers to your liking. You'll end up with a system that is very speaker specific when you should have instead be starting with a speaker much closer your ideal.
But I do feel if you can experiment a little, learn a little with each change, you've come a step closer to enjoying the audio hobby and experience some extraordinary music while you were at it. You know how the Adagio sounds and it honestly makes it a very good tool that allows you to hear upstream changes quite easily, good or bad.
But for the enjoyment you might be looking for on a day to day basis, these speakers sound like they won't cut it for you. |
Uh oh, Jl35. You've done it now. Shame on you...... |
I've found that most speaker lines may keep the same common thread over the years, however most that I listen to often change with the times or as new materials pop up in the tech sector.
I don't think you can take any companies amp from years ago and compare it to their offerings of today. I personally didn't like Vandersteen years ago, but love their high end line now. I didn't like Audio Quest years ago as a cable manufacturer, but now feel they are darn neutral. I haven't liked many of the top named speaker lines as they were too hot for me and they still are, however many do have better mids now, but are still no coherent.
Was speaking with a designer/engineer yesterday about something off topic, but as always it came back to audio and his views. He is a measurer and we talked about his experiences in the industry and all the snake oil BS that many companies use to sell their gear. Many, even in the industry don't know all the crap that happens behind the scenes or some of the claims companies make about their products or even themselves that are flat out BS.
He feels that all too often consumers just buy in hook line and sinker into this marketing stuff and then talk about it on the boards. In the past we spoke about it in meetings or as we visited stores. Too many don't really know what distortion sounds like as we've been told that it's 'open on top' or 'highly extended'. Much of that is a signal not being passed properly. Many of the very expensive, big name cables can't pass a simple square wave and most can't pass a signal with the proper time phase according to him. He quoted a bunch of names from physics and all (I don't pretend to be an engineer, but I understand concepts well).
I've never read a bad word about this maker/engineer and doubt I will. He will not publicly bad mouth anyone's components, but he does test things and tries anything he can to constantly upgrade his own products. He knows we all hear differently and respects that.
Tying this back into the original thread a bit more....
He said that trying to match cables is ridiculous. Cables upstream or downstream don't interact with each other. They only interact with the component they are attached to (my words, but I'm sure you all understand the point he's making). He said a cable either passes a signal properly or it doesn't. He had heard differences in some cables and the ones that have tested poorly in the 4 tests you use on a cable (see Bell Labs tests I think he said).to check it's properties are ones he just doesn't like. He did testing after listening.
He feels strongly (and knows that everyone has a different philosophy) that you need to buy the correct component and then get a neutral cable that has shielding. Mu metal has been one of the only complete ways to shield cables or components over the years and has been used in the cable and speaker industries.
If you don't like a speaker AFTER LISTENING TO IT IN THE PROPER ENVIRONMENT, then cross it off you list and move on. Some don't care about what sounds best, they care about more bass or more highs or only the mids.
Personally if I hadn't liked my system for 4 years I would go speak with a dealer I fully trusted or find one (I actually did that two years ago) and I'd start over.
I hope by now we all realize that you MUST listen to any companies new gear that you will be buying and stop living in the past or listening to BS hype about the product of the month. There is a high end store known nationally that is in business to make money. They always are changing lines. Why? Many reasons, however when speaking with an owner, he flat out said that they always need to carry what's on the next cover of that hot magazine as that's what sells. THAT statement made me think of the internet boards where words DO MATTER to a company........any company.
and NO the person wasn't Richard Vandersteen, although ironically this engineer LOVES his speakers and holds him in the highest regards and feels he's one of the few NO BS guys in the industry. That's why he may rub someone the wrong way, but at least he's not lying. Can't ask for much more than that IMHO. |
Be careful Jl35, the Vandersteen Walkers are coming for you! |
Jdoris - that's why I made sure to mention how much I liked the 5 !!! |
I have heard the current and previous 2 and 3 series. Have not heard current 5, so I may not like it anymore. Agree that you can really only decide after listening to properly set up components. |
I'd still sleep with a piece of rebar by the bed, Jl35! ;) |
"04-03-15: Shakeydeal
Uh oh, Jl35. You've done it now. Shame on you......
Shakeydeal (System | Threads | Answers | This Thread)"
You're not still mad at me, are you Shakey? I've seen a few comments like this from you recently and can't help but think you may still be a little upset with me. I fully admit that I woke up on the wrong side of the binding posts that one day, and as a result, I acted like a complete ass. I could have said the same thing without being offensive in any way. I thought I apologized for that, but maybe I didn't, or you just didn't see it. |
"04-02-15: Sunnyjim
To Mmeysarosh, Your comment exactly described what I am hearing and have heard over the last 4 years. It is not been painful, just overall disappointing."
What kind of cables are you using in the system? With gear that has a lot of resolution like AZ and Ayre, I've noticed some traits that certain cables bring out in a system. I'm not saying that this is definitely your problem, or that different cables will be a complete fix, because that's not likely. But it may be a contributing factor, and maybe offer at least a partial fix, or step in the right direction. |
zd542,
Not mad at all. Just having some fun......
Shakey |
To ZD542, Don't laugh, and ruin the armistice we sort of have achieved. I used for 3 years the Audio Art SC-5 which after a long break-in sounded very good. Sam Tellig of Sterophile Mag often mentioned them in his speaker reviews.
However, I would not leave "it" alone and am currently using and breaking-in Grover Huffman cable. I cannot say yet if they sound much better than AA SC-5. There are many members who recommended them, and there are testimonials scattered across the audio blog.
The other option was Clear Day cables made by Paul Laudatti, a fine gentleman whose home base is Tucson. I once tried his basic cable as a loaner and I think it sounded a tad better (and also brighter) than the basic AA. The ticket in his line is the Double Silver Shotgun speaker cable which I never auditioned. I still could because I don't need a 12 ft pair anymore which is difficult to get as a loaner
However in the interim of trying to figure out the above problem as described in the tread, I considered Audience speaker cable, that is the new SE line. Even used it is a lot of money. I could be wrong ,but an eight ft pair of the SE model is about $1400. Accalades abound in the audio press for the speaker cable, but a system cable upgrade of the their SE model interconnect and PC, was reviewed last month in TAS.
Lastly,a long time member who has used every wire, possibly barbed and razor wire, was raving about the new Synergistic Research speaker cable ranked and titled Level 1 to 4. You need to visit their website, the design and technology is beyond me; however SR offers the basic Level I speaker cable for $895.00. The Cable Companny has loaners.and is also an official dealer |
