Can't get Acoustic Zen Adagios to sound smooth

Wow, talk about a rude and mean thread. We all are emotional about our equipment. I get that. We all shill what we own and many of us will discuss products that have impressed us that we've heard. We all have ideas and if you are posting and asking a question on here, then you need to realize you will get a different answer from nearly everyone.

My first and only thought is that if you don't like your system as it's not giving you (you add what it's not giving you consistently) and you've changed other components around it, out, then change the component you don't seem to like. You have even said the AZ's are too big for you. Then look for smaller speakers, but as AC so aptly put it, you'll chase your tail forever. If you are looking for neutral and musical mids the AZ may not be what you want. I've heard three of their speakers over the years and none gave me the mids nor the flat highs that I personally enjoy. They had great bass though. Very strong bass in fact. Some folks love the highs and lows and hate Bose (sorry, this thread needed some levity) and AZ delivers that in spades.

As for Richard, I met him while in the Navy in SD at Audio Unlimited (still open). Bruce, the owner was an awesome guy and many of us bought gear through him. I was in there when Richard was showing off his 2's and they sounded really great for the price. He took his time and explained all about them as well as his company. He was a very nice person. He had a great sense of humor, but yes, he's to the point. I met him again in the late 90's (I ended up with Proacs instead of Vandys when I could finally get better speakers a few years later). Again, he was straight shooting and nice. Opinionated and passionate about his product??? YES....but not a jerk and he wasn't rude.
I now happen to own Vandy's and have met and spoke with him a few times at events and he's been more than gracious. If he really was a jerk, he couldn't turn it on and off like that. I know a few who know him well and they love the guy. He has passion. Wish more did. That's one reason I love this hobby ...folks are passionate about it.

I was once told that once you have to resort to using profanity in an argument you have lost. Jim, I'm sure you're a great guy yourself, but you have no need to swear at someone who has passion and is trying to help you. It's not like AC is getting the sale here folks.

My suggestion is to go out to local dealers and audition speakers in your price range and see if there is anything that you do like. If you can somehow look past how any of them look, you'll probably find something soon. That Ayre is KILLER and deserving of a great speaker and amp with neutral cables to get the most out of it. Good luck, I'm sure you'll find what you are looking for with an open mind.

Shaky, I have to ask you a question. In all honesty, when was the last time you sat down in a dealers showroom and listened to the brand new version of either of those VAndersteen speakers?

I too thought that was the case until I sat and listened with an open mind. I hadn't heard them in a few years and I listened to posters like you who bad mouthed them as bland, no excitment etc... Boy am I glad I listened to them. I went into the first audition NOT wanting to like them, but they were anything but bland or polite. They are natural and flat. They are time and phase coherent with no smear so you can look into the music. The detail is there, but it doesn't hit you like a Mack truck unless that's what is recorded.

Too many audiophiles think a speaker has to stand out and hit you, but that's not what live music is. With the correct system match, you hear everything and that includes the bite of the sax or the percussion of the piano. Strings sound real. I can easily tell the type of string used on the guitar or other instuments.

I heard a system of all Tidal speakers and amps with some outragously expensive pure silver cables and cords that were done right. The music was served up by the Aurender W2 I believe it was called. Doug White in Philly was the person who sells these products and he wins best of show just like Vandersteen does at so many shows. That system would be boring to you Shaky. You wouldn't like it at all as it's flat from top to bottom. The thing is, I put it in the same category as Vandersteen driven by ARC, Aesthetix or Ayre Ref gear. I've heard a top end pair of Rockports and also Avalon that I'd put into this class. Nothing was missing. Veils were lifted and all that was left was you and the music. Dougs room was in a built out garage and it wasn't too special. He just did it properly and it blew me away in the same way the 7's blow me away.

Shaky, I'm a mark for great sound and I don't care who gives it to me. I travel a lot and I hear a ton of gear that is discussed on these boards. Much of it I don't love, but it appeals to the mass market. The problem is that folks listen to people who haven't listened to a certain version of something and take it for granted. As much as I stand up for Vandersteen, Ayre, Tidal, ARC, CJ, Aesthetix, AQ and the list goes on, I actually have listened to most of the products discussed on the boards recently and can compare fairly. I also am the first to tell anyone asking questions that it's MY EAR and they need to go listen for themselves.

I get that you have it out personally for Richard Vandersteen because he wasn't friendly to a buddy of yours or maybe it was to you. I can't keep folks biasis straight. If you liked him maybe you wouldn't make so many incorrect statements about a product you probably have never even heard.
JMHO...flame on guys

Back to the real topic at hand. Anyone who's been around audio will tell you that if you aren't happy with a product after all of these years, go audition something new and get what makes you happy rather than chasing your tail for another 4 years. There to so many products to chose from now and with all the new advances in materials, there will be something that you will like I'm sure. Go listen to some live music before you audition and give all brands a fair shake (see what I did there Shaky, lol). Let us know what you are hearing. You have some really great gear as a foundtion. Have fun with it.

Shakey, I'm honestly not trying to be snarky, but if you don't care, why do you even bring it up? We have all had bad experiences in our life an often times those turn into great experiences for who we meet etc..

I asked a friend to read some of your posts to see if I was off base and he said the same thing, that you seem to have it out for the guy and his products. I'm glad that you have the passion that you do as that's better than apathy in my book. I do post about Vandersteen or Ayre or anything else I own and love because all too often people make posts based on their thoughts and not facts. I know that at least one poster emailed me to apologize about their less than positive comments on Vandy's upper line speakers as he admitted he never heard them. He was going off of what other posters have said about them on forums and he took it for fact.

When I hear folks make a comment about the sound of a product and not one reviewer or person who actually owns the product has said anything close, doesn't that make you think that the poster probably hasn't heard the product or at least not in a fair setting? I think that's a fair question.
Anyways, it all seems good and I'm impressed that he took the time to explain himself and that a dealer cares enough to try and help.

If you had brought your damaged speaker that you bought through another dealer to Johnny, I know for a fact that he'd work with you as if you bought it new from him. I've seen him do that and his posting on these boards shows that's the type of stand up guy he is. He's a true throw back and the industry needs more guys like him. JMHO and I'm sorry if any of my comments seemed over the line as I try not to use profanity or make personal attacks on the boards (however I will passionately stand up for products and companies that I've had incredible experiences with like Vandersteen and Audio Connection and Take 5 Audio and the list goes on).

I've found that most speaker lines may keep the same common thread over the years, however most that I listen to often change with the times or as new materials pop up in the tech sector.

I don't think you can take any companies amp from years ago and compare it to their offerings of today. I personally didn't like Vandersteen years ago, but love their high end line now. I didn't like Audio Quest years ago as a cable manufacturer, but now feel they are darn neutral. I haven't liked many of the top named speaker lines as they were too hot for me and they still are, however many do have better mids now, but are still no coherent.

Was speaking with a designer/engineer yesterday about something off topic, but as always it came back to audio and his views. He is a measurer and we talked about his experiences in the industry and all the snake oil BS that many companies use to sell their gear. Many, even in the industry don't know all the crap that happens behind the scenes or some of the claims companies make about their products or even themselves that are flat out BS.

He feels that all too often consumers just buy in hook line and sinker into this marketing stuff and then talk about it on the boards. In the past we spoke about it in meetings or as we visited stores. Too many don't really know what distortion sounds like as we've been told that it's 'open on top' or 'highly extended'. Much of that is a signal not being passed properly. Many of the very expensive, big name cables can't pass a simple square wave and most can't pass a signal with the proper time phase according to him. He quoted a bunch of names from physics and all (I don't pretend to be an engineer, but I understand concepts well).

I've never read a bad word about this maker/engineer and doubt I will. He will not publicly bad mouth anyone's components, but he does test things and tries anything he can to constantly upgrade his own products. He knows we all hear differently and respects that.

Tying this back into the original thread a bit more....
He said that trying to match cables is ridiculous. Cables upstream or downstream don't interact with each other. They only interact with the component they are attached to (my words, but I'm sure you all understand the point he's making). He said a cable either passes a signal properly or it doesn't. He had heard differences in some cables and the ones that have tested poorly in the 4 tests you use on a cable (see Bell Labs tests I think he said).to check it's properties are ones he just doesn't like. He did testing after listening.

He feels strongly (and knows that everyone has a different philosophy) that you need to buy the correct component and then get a neutral cable that has shielding. Mu metal has been one of the only complete ways to shield cables or components over the years and has been used in the cable and speaker industries.

If you don't like a speaker AFTER LISTENING TO IT IN THE PROPER ENVIRONMENT, then cross it off you list and move on. Some don't care about what sounds best, they care about more bass or more highs or only the mids.

Personally if I hadn't liked my system for 4 years I would go speak with a dealer I fully trusted or find one (I actually did that two years ago) and I'd start over.

I hope by now we all realize that you MUST listen to any companies new gear that you will be buying and stop living in the past or listening to BS hype about the product of the month. There is a high end store known nationally that is in business to make money. They always are changing lines. Why? Many reasons, however when speaking with an owner, he flat out said that they always need to carry what's on the next cover of that hot magazine as that's what sells. THAT statement made me think of the internet boards where words DO MATTER to a company........any company.

and NO the person wasn't Richard Vandersteen, although ironically this engineer LOVES his speakers and holds him in the highest regards and feels he's one of the few NO BS guys in the industry. That's why he may rub someone the wrong way, but at least he's not lying. Can't ask for much more than that IMHO.