Hey Mitch,
Just wanted to throw in an off-topic comment. That is one heck of a room you have. Very nice system. |
One track mind? No way. I was harsh on Bob's current tube amps that appears to be a very good quality product. But here are the objective historical facts on Bob's company back in the 80's and 90's in Lynnwood, WA. I was a former member of the Washington Audio Society back in the 90's and Bob attended a couple of our monthly meetings on Mercer Island. At the time, the only good reliable products he was making were his tube amps which were made in house at the factory in Lynnwood. By 1990 all his solid state products were manufactured in Asia. I knew many Audiophiles at the time that were pissed at his solid state pieces since they had the same problems as I did. On going defect problems with his solid state manufacturing. I am not exaggerating at all at the number of Carver solid state pieces that came into repair at Magnolia Hi-Fi every month. Any reputable business man would not allow these problems to go on continuously for ten years as Carver did which was disrespectful to Audiophiles and would have made adjustments to correct those problems which is why Carver sales tanked and the company went out of business and Bob moved his operations to Issaquah, WA. and started Sunfire. Other companies from that time period such as ATI, SAE, Luxman, Accuphase and McIntosh had much better quality products. As far as tube amps, I'll take a used Conrad-Johnson over Carver any day of the week. |
Mitch4t, you have an awesome system. For the record, Bob Carver was the designer of Bob Carver, LLC. Bob C was not in charge of the financial side of the operation; Bob F was. My understanding is that the decision to sell to Emotiva was made by Bob F, who has now retired from high end and is traveling the country-good for him. The pricing of the Bob's tube amps was decided by Bob F, not Bob C. FWIW, the new reduced pricing of the Bob's tube amps was not Bob C's decision either. So I think it's a bit unfair to trash Bob C for decisions that were not his. |
Audiozen, you are a broken record. Please stop. Don't you realize that in the end Bob did not have control over the bean counters who wanted to maximize profit? He quit those companies in part because he lost control over his products by the investors/board members who were more interested in profit than overall quality. Why are you comparing Sunfire to companies like Luxman, McIntosh, and Accuphase who charge many times more for their products? You have no valid argument. |
Dracule1..for the record, you state "In the end Bob did not have control over the bean counter's who wanted to maximize profits" is completely false. Heres the facts. Bob Carver went into equal partnership in the 90's with Jim Kropf, co-founder and owner of Definitive Audio in Seattle. Several years into the partnership Jim attempted to kick Bob out of Carver due to a failing company claiming he owned the patent rights to the schematics of the Lightstar amplifier and owned the Carver trademark. Bob filed a lawsuit in Federal court against Jim and was not allowed to use the Carver name for several years until the case was over so he used the name Sunfire instead. Bob won the lawsuit and was awarded back the Carver name and the Lightstar patents. It had nothing to do with bean counters, just poor business choices that Bob made which resulted in a business war with his partner Jim Kropf. |
Audiozen, You have an unhealthy obsession with Bob. Seek professional help. You'll get no more response from me. |
Bob Carvers 305 have gone down to 4000 a pair, from 12000++ this is a Joke!!!! |
You guys do know, that bobs amps were being sold for 12000++ now its selling for 3990.00 US dollars ahahahahahahaah I paid shit loads for mine. Now I cant even sell it |
The $4000 price is PER AMP. I got this reply when I inquired about the new price:
"Thanks for your interest in our Black Beauty 305 amplifier. These units are priced individually at the $3995 price." |
VTA180 owner here. Regarding price, I understand manufacture has moved from Tennessee to Kentucky, did the original assemblers and managers make that move?
If these are emoty-via newbies soldering away it would be prudent to advertise that fact if one were to sell.
Like him or not this was probably Bob Carver's least influential designs and organization. Certainly the original company was very responsive and produced good no frills quality while it lasted. |
May be least influential designs but one of the best sounding and most reliable amp I've ever heard or owned. |
Isn't this old news already. I think this happened 5 months ago. I can't believe people are still talking about this. |
Taters, yes of course its old news. The question is regarding current pricing and exactly who is involved with their production, the original people or emotaroids? |
Audiozen: Carver got a divorce and the wife got part of the company. Why would he stay at Carver and continue to make money for his ex-wife. Why come up with new designs? That's how Carver eventually folded, if there is such a word! That's how Sunfire came into existence after the divorce. I suppose you're going to say Sunfire is all garbage to! That's the real story of Carver. |
My Mistake sorry guys I thought it was per pair. Glad to hear its per amp. My amps are still up for sale. |
And continuing with the wife analogy, Emotiva married Sherbourn to use her rep and contacts as a way to gain influence. But it seems that oil and water do not mix, (Emo even tried an affair with TacT on the side)so she was cast aside when she couldn't make them any money, and trophy wife Carver came along!
Doesn't anybody marry for love anymore? |
I did. Been 30 years now last Sept 3rd... :) |
Iv had some bad tubes from bob carver, Kept making a popping noise and some blue lights would appear during this frantic moments. I reported it to Dan and the staff no response yet. If I don't get a response within 5 days I assume they are not really supporting the 1 year tube warranty and the 5 years unit warranty. |
24h365..Your full of crap. As I already stated, Sunfire emerged during the lawsuit between Bob and Jim Kropf in Federal Court in Seattle since Bob was not allowed to use the Carver trademarked name until the trial was over due to litigation. The trial went on for years. Having lived in the Seattle area since Bob founded Phase Linear in 1968 keeps us Audiophiles in Washington State on the inside track with Bob since we grew up with him here in the Northwest. |
Azee, lighten up...
Your support of a locally produced product and the resultant dissatisfaction is clearly understandable and you paid for the privilege to share your opinion regarding the products you own. By now it should be equally clear that Bob Carver Tube Amplifiers LLC was a collaborative design and business that has produced a line of products that has been well received by seasoned audio hobbyist and not simply the typical entry level Emo customer.
Considering his age the sale of the company is understandable to me. While warrantee support maybe questionable the product is so well built in the old school tradition that, if needed, most third party repair should be straight forward. |
Yes but the new buyers are no longer supporting the warranty on these units and the 1 year tube replacements. I never had a bad tube before so this is the first.
Anyhow I think bob carver staff have made it clear they wont replace the tubes as my emails are being ignored both from Dan and his tech staff for the past 1 week. |
'Carver' produces no results from the emo search. There is some talk on the their lounge forum but it's so childish there isn't any actual information.
Well shitte!
Dragon, yours are the prototypes with captive power cords and unique transformers? How old would you say the tubes are? |
Tubes less then 6 months old. Its making a popping noise and I can see blue electrical charges inside the power tubes when this happens. The VU Meter is also going crazy when this issue crops up now and then. I will be charging the tubes my self now. As im sick and tired of trying to get warranty support from Bob Carver. |
This is what I love about the forums...based on the cost of Carver tube stuff, I'm even more happy with my el cheapo Jolida amp that keeps on truckin' with zero issues and fabulous sound all day long. Was that snarky? Sorry...In any case, what the hell is in, for example, that beautiful Rogers amp I see at a local shop that justifies its costing multiples of my beloved Jolida? It certainly isn't its sound, as I found that to be nothing special. I just bought an astonishingly well built Class A hand wired USA made all tube guitar amp (Burriss Royal Bluesman with spring reverb and tremelo...tube rectifier!) that lists for about $1000 new (mine was used and half that price, but still). Frankly I think pricing of some amps is weirdly arbitrary although understandably market driven, but maybe people LIKE to pay through the proverbial nose...virtual sinus cleansing? |
Dragon, 'Dan and his tech staff' is that the guy the emoyah minions call Big Dan?
I'm so sorry to hear of this/your situation and could easily become my own.
What to do? |
They are not really supporting the so called warranty on the tubes and I guess the amplifier it self. The amp is hand built in t he US for what I have been told. But to be honest if the company wont support the warranty simply omit the information off the website and don't offer it. It just feels like false promise to me. I have decided to keep the amps, now since warranty wont be supported I will just upgrade the volume pots and capacitors inside the amp to take them up a few level. I have just ordered another Pre-amp from Bill Baker from Purity audio. |
Dragon, I hear you.
The Purity is an interesting design. I remember seeing show photos of them being paired with Carvers. What are you currently using and what are you about to get? |
Getting the Atma MA2
Running my Bobs with the Bill Bakers Leanna line of preamp. I like the sound of his pre-amps compared to many others iv tried including VAC.
At the moment am using the purity with Clayton M300. Once the Atma is delivered, I will use the Clayton with the Danley SH50 for HT Duties and acquire the M200 for Centre Channel.
The Bobs are moving into a smaller room now, and will start modifying the amps with better caps and volume pot. Just disappointed on how Bob and the new buyers are acting these days with pricing and support. Total disappointment.
Just ordered a Pair of Legacy audio Whisper XD too, that should arrive in 2 weeks. |
FYI, using the customerservice@emotiva.com email from the Bob Carver site I requested a replacement tube on 10/7 and received a reply on 10/8.
[["All we need is a copy of your purchase order to proceed with a replacement. If you tell me a quantity you need I will try to get a price. I recommend replacing output tubes in pairs, each push pull configuration.
Thanks,
Mike
Vacuum Tube Amplifier Support Team"]] |
I have just emailed them, Lets see what happens. |
Emo dumps Carver, the Carver site is down.
http://emotivalounge.proboards.com/thread/33568/official-bob-carver-update?page=1&scrollTo=574892 |
THAT is hilarious! I wonder if they're clawing back whatever they paid Bob, and I wonder how the Emotiva tube amps will sound...cool...so now Carver tube amps have no support? Interesting...Absolute Sound just recommended a couple of 'em. It's a strange world. |
Strange things can happen in the business/legal world. Anybody remember when Ralph temporarily lost control of his own company? I have a client that says "in a courtroom, elephants can fly". |
The amplifiers could be collector's items in a few years.
Stranger things have happened. |
That email is not responding anymore. I guess Bob Carver is finished. Will have to spend 900 dollars might as well get some KT150 Tubes instead. |
Can you run KT150s in a VTA 180? |
Not sure about KT150s, but I used KT120s in mine for 100 hrs now. No issue |
Yes you can bob confirmed the KT150 tubes perfectly fine on both amplifiers. |
back in the early years bob carver amps I felt was not up to par I cant speak on his tube stuff ,I did buy 2 xpa1sfrom emo for the price great deal and they sound great ,yes id love to have mcs or krell or a lot of other stuff but this what my pockit let me buy |
Not sure about his SS Gear, but the tubes when modified are sounding very nice. The Internals of the amp looks old school. I don't regret the purchase. just pissed off about the warranty issue and the price change. The amps are very nice and musical. At first it did have a slight darker tone to them. Done a few caps change and it really shines now. |
Only good thing about without warranty is now I can "all in" on all the modification :)
I did change: volume pot, 5 coupling caps, 6 resistors, swapped in KT120s.
Sweet and well-designed tube amps |
Hi Dragon_vibe,
I just want to confirm that Bob confirmed the new KT150s fit the Cherry 180? I received email from one of the Carver tech said I can use KT120s in them and might be gain 10-15 wpc. The new KT150 looks nice with egg-shape glass :)
Thanks |
I see a lot of banter going on regarding the warranty on Bob Carver LLC, products, ie the Cherry 180 & Black Beauty 305, etc. Has anyone checked with thier dealer? Well I did. My dealer confirmed that Emotiva is honoring the 7 year warranty on all products made under the Bob Carver LLC entity.They will do the repairs. So check with your dealer.My dealer also mentioned that BC is regrouping and may be making a comeback in the next few months or so. I mentioned to my dealer that it would great to get a schematic of the 180's for my records as I plan on keeping these for a very long time. Awesome amps. |
Thuan98
Could you update me which upgrades you have done and which resistors you have swapped out. I don't care much now about the warranty. I don't like emailing emotive, I have tried and they have ignore all my emails so when someone says the dealer claims this and that. Its all thin air to me. |
I changed
1- the volume pot with GP
2- Coupling cap (2 each per amp .22uF) with JFX - Premium Metallized Polypropylene Film Capacitors
3- Feedback cap 1 each 2.2uF with JFX - Premium Metallized Polypropylene Film Capacitors
4- 6 resistors in signalling path (each amp) 2.2kOhm 2watt
5- Roll with KT-120s power tubes |
does anyone have a shcematic for the 180's? I looked on the Carver site and the schematic was for the 305? |
Hi Thuan. What resistors did you upgrade to for the ones that were already in there? |
Hi,
I use Mills resistors as recommended by other fellow Agoner |
I am too looking for 180s' schematic. Please share. |
